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Sacrilege83

Denizens of Cataclysm

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Played one game so far with the new expansion.  We find the new Denizens system to be a bit tedious.  We already started off with a house rule that caps each space to have a max of 3 Denizens and drawing another Denizen replaces the older.  So my friends aren't exactly impressed by Denizens because the reading and then deciding on which to visit slows the pace of the game down.  Since we keep on drawing newer Denizens to replace the older ones, it's not like any of us can get use to the spaces knowing what to expect as if it were fixed, so we have to read and choose all over again.

 

So I'm trying to come up with a new house rule.  I'll still cap it at 3 Denizens per space but no more drawing new cards after that and no drawing to replace discarded Denizens unless for some reason a space becomes cleared of all its Denizens; then one card will be drawn and if it remains there it will be only 1 Denizen on that space for the rest of the game, not 3.

 

What are your experiences with the Denizen system?  Any recommended house rules?

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I kinda share Your feelings about the Denizens, but only to some degree. For me it is always better to draw a card than visit a Denizen, because usually they don't have anything interesting to offer. Or rarely the things they have to offer are better than an Adventure card would have to offer. However, usually the Denizens are discarded, You probably just had a lot of luck in drawing Denizens with a matching trait.

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We were 6 players, so that is already tedious to begin with, all playing in the outer region for three hours those Denizen cards stack up quickly.  My opinion this game is best with 4 players.

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I kinda share Your feelings about the Denizens, but only to some degree. For me it is always better to draw a card than visit a Denizen, because usually they don't have anything interesting to offer. Or rarely the things they have to offer are better than an Adventure card would have to offer. However, usually the Denizens are discarded, You probably just had a lot of luck in drawing Denizens with a matching trait.

You sure you play it right? They are not discarded until visited, that means their matching or not matching trait comes into play only after they have been visited. That means you draw the first one that matches and you dont have to visit any more of the drawn denizens and keep visiting the first one and they keep piling on the space, whatever their trait is.

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I won't be able play this expansion for a while, but with 40 Denizens Cards and the discarding if they don't match the space, how many could/can end up on the same space? (in theory / and/or your game)

 

(Are you sure you didn't just take the cards out of the box as they were, gave them a quick shuffle and started? - I'm asking because the similar ones are usually on top of each other, which can cause quite some problems if you don't randomize them properly before the first game.

 

I once had it happen with a new game a friend brought over. Since that horrible day, I always check the cards stacks, double time. :D )

 

 

Also, you have a problem with reading each card individually? - Is there no one in your group who's good at reading (and memorizing)?

That's how it's done in my group - I am that person - so usually I end up reading about 70% of the cards/spaces to everyone, be it by looking at them  (I am a very fast reader) and/or knowing the cards/spaces.

 

 

I guess wanting to know what to expect on a space is up to personal pref., but from my groups experience, I would dare to say that we would probably like this new system more than the old one. [Also, we like reading the stuff even if most people already know what happens, someone is bound to come with a neat small story or a funny comment, even if we are not really roleplaying. It's one of the parts we really enjoy about this game and it always helps to make the day/evening that much more memorable.]

Edited by Lorinor

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It deals with the monotony of space like the chapel, cemetery, village, etc. Memorization is pretty much out of the question, way too many cards, but a lot of them are merely the standard 1-2 bad, 3-4 nuetralish, 5-6 good formula.

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@Lorinor

1) The game puts no cap as I know of on any of the spaces where you draw Denizen cards, that's why we capped it to 3 but still allowed to replace the oldest card with a newly drawn one.  Denizens that have been visited only stay if their TRAIT description matches the space they're in, or if it states "any".  So you can see these corner spaces, plus others, can build up Denizens rather quickly where a player will take a long time deciding who to visit out of several Denizens.

 

2) Yes cards were shuffled, even if they weren't it wouldn't matter since Denizen cards are drawn on random spaces visited.  (i.e. the top five cards have City as the Trait but each time they were drawn it was on the Graveyard space, Village, Tavern, etc.)

 

3) The problem is reading multiple Denizen cards in a single turn trying to decide who to visit, therefore eating away playing time.  And since we were playing a house rule where the Denizens fluctuate as the oldest card gets replaced by a newer one, the space then always becomes unfamiliar.  Unlike the original board, as Joker has stated, memorization of a space becomes difficult when playing by the house rule I had.  Original rules, all matching trait Denizens would stay + un-visited Denizens, so instead of reading 3 in my house rules you'll read cards that you're familiar with since the beginning of the game plus the ones stacking all the time later with no limit. 

 

4) Denizens makes the spaces different every time you play with this expansion.  The con is the unfamiliarity will eat away time, because we have a hard enough time as it is already to reach the Crown of Command with just 4 players on a 4 hour time limit.  (We're adults, we work and/or have families/responsibilities)

 

 

 

@Joker2016

Most of the cards are those roll a die as you've mentioned, but there are some that can really screw you over such as the Black Knight:  "Pay one gold to take a life off of any player of your choosing."  That's how I was killed.  Swear, if you're rich and have a poltergeist, you are set. 

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That's why I trim all the garbage out of my decks, no assassins guild, flail, spell book, ekor, scribe, shiver nymph, rune gates, or a lot of other junk in my decks. I got rid of almost everything that wastes turns too. No thanks evil darkness, maze etc, let's keep the game rolling. I think I will leave the black Knight denizen tho, for now at least

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My biggest gripe is that with no perminant alchemist cursed objects become a real big pain in the ass. I've been playing a game with my son for two days now and with no sign of said alchemist all our bags and mules are pretty much filled with cursed objects, and with no way of ridding ourselves of them it's becoming really annoying. So we are trying to think of a rule that would let us off load unwanted cursed items. Any ideas welcome.

Cheers.

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When I first read the new chasm I was like wow I can't believe they made it that easy to get rid of bad items and followers.

And before it becomes a debate, you CAN discard cursed items and followers, whether you have normal items or not. Nothing in the rules suggests otherwise.

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That's why I trim all the garbage out of my decks, no assassins guild, flail, spell book, ekor, scribe, shiver nymph, rune gates, or a lot of other junk in my decks. I got rid of almost everything that wastes turns too. No thanks evil darkness, maze etc, let's keep the game rolling. I think I will leave the black Knight denizen tho, for now at least

I did that for awhile as well but then I went back because it felt wrong and cheapend the game. I think if you are going to take cards out take out the real pain cards (eg assassin, scribe, flail) only the time wasting cards are there for a reason. Mind you so are the pain cards too but at least you can justify their poor design.

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The people that are missing turns have jobs; mixing drinks, preparing food, upkeep, cleanup.... We dont take out any of the cards. You want to be an ass, it will come back to haunt you. Guaranteed.

Preparing food?

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When I first read the new chasm I was like wow I can't believe they made it that easy to get rid of bad items and followers.

And before it becomes a debate, you CAN discard cursed items and followers, whether you have normal items or not. Nothing in the rules suggests otherwise.

You are correct under The Harbinger rules: Cursed Keyword "Cursed Objects and Followers may be discarded, stolen, and sold as normal."

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In general I agree that a purist game is best in theory but for whatever reasons our games take FOREVER, I would rather actually finish the game in under 8 hours lol.

Purist game :). Well of course its totally up-to the gamer's themselves "hell you can all wear pink dresses as well if you really want" :). But if your talking about a true Talisman game experience the time scale has to be factored in no matter what.

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How about the Chasm?

 

 

When I first read the new chasm I was like wow I can't believe they made it that easy to get rid of bad items and followers.

And before it becomes a debate, you CAN discard cursed items and followers, whether you have normal items or not. Nothing in the rules suggests otherwise.

Ah, I've missed that, still, getting nothing in return for your cursed objects/magic objects seems like a rubbish deal, but never the less, would make room, so off I go to chuck all my hard earned items into the chasm then....

Edited by ElGreebo

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When I first read the new chasm I was like wow I can't believe they made it that easy to get rid of bad items and followers.

And before it becomes a debate, you CAN discard cursed items and followers, whether you have normal items or not. Nothing in the rules suggests otherwise.

You could get rid of objects and followers before (City and Ice Bridge).

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I kinda share Your feelings about the Denizens, but only to some degree. For me it is always better to draw a card than visit a Denizen, because usually they don't have anything interesting to offer. Or rarely the things they have to offer are better than an Adventure card would have to offer. However, usually the Denizens are discarded, You probably just had a lot of luck in drawing Denizens with a matching trait.

You sure you play it right? They are not discarded until visited, that means their matching or not matching trait comes into play only after they have been visited. That means you draw the first one that matches and you dont have to visit any more of the drawn denizens and keep visiting the first one and they keep piling on the space, whatever their trait is.

Hey, I meant that Sacrilege could have a bad luck at drawing Denizens with a matching trait, so after being encountered the Denizens could stay on the space instead of being discarded. And for this reason the Denizen spaces could seem to be crowded.

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