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JimbonX

Chardan Refit on X-Wing?

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Absolutely No.

 

Maybe an upgrade that reduces the point of the torpedo slot upgrade by 2 points but remove the slot all together is a no. The Chardaan refit killed a lot of design space by the devs and they are just starting to repair the damage. But missiles are still out of the game and Chardaan cold be part of the reason.

Edited by Marinealver

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Absolutely No.

 

Maybe an upgrade that reduces the point of the torpedo slot upgrade by 2 points but remove the slot all together is a no. The Chardaan refit killed a lot of design space by the devs and they are just starting to repair the damage. But missiles are still out of the game and Chardaan cold be part of the reason.

This doesn't make any sense to me.  Refit was a 2 point reduction on a single ship, how does it kill design space?  Nor do I see how it would keep missiles out of the game.

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Absolutely No.

 

Maybe an upgrade that reduces the point of the torpedo slot upgrade by 2 points but remove the slot all together is a no. The Chardaan refit killed a lot of design space by the devs and they are just starting to repair the damage. But missiles are still out of the game and Chardaan cold be part of the reason.

Any design space "Killed" on the A-wing was saved with the Test pilot title... so it's not really a loss. You can still field missiles on the A-wing if you wish. Same thing with the defender titles.

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Rogue Squadron title card with option for either boost or barrel roll, you choose at the beginning of the turn. Not sure if it should give stress or not. 2 to 4 points. Adds options to the X-Wing that make it competitive, but not too over powered.

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Absolutely No.

 

Maybe an upgrade that reduces the point of the torpedo slot upgrade by 2 points but remove the slot all together is a no. The Chardaan refit killed a lot of design space by the devs and they are just starting to repair the damage. But missiles are still out of the game and Chardaan cold be part of the reason.

This doesn't make any sense to me.  Refit was a 2 point reduction on a single ship, how does it kill design space?  Nor do I see how it would keep missiles out of the game.

 

2 point reduction that made missiles 2 points more expensive to use on A-wings since the chardaan became the new baseline for all A-wings. A-wings don't use missiles anymore, it is better for them to take the reduction and put those 2 points to something else (like TLT on Y-wings).

 

Sure the Torpedo slot on x-wings is used about as much as the missile slot was used before Aces. But to remove it to make space for 5 X-wings won't exactly help the X-wing either. Just take a look at the 5 scum x-wing list aka Kihrax (aka Klingon). So what the OP is proposing still won't get the intended results.

 

Either way I am against a anymore remove upgrade slot for less points upgrades. They have to do something more than just fill a slot and make everything cost less. That will start tearing up design space and there is already enough unused upgrade slots. The upcoming x7 and TIE shuttle are alright because you get something in return and with the TIE-D title I don't think Defenders will default to x7 as much as A-wings default to chardaan.

 

Again as I said if there was a title/modification/astromech upgrade that reduced the cost of a torpedo upgrade by 2 that would be an okay upgrade. It gives X-wing a free flechete torpedo or a 1 point plasma. I don't know if it would make X-wings or torpedoes great again, the build might need a few more upgrades to help but it would be better than a straight up remove the torpedo slot to save 2 points.

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I've got to be honest, after my experiences running 5 Khiraxz, if some upgrade made the rookie 20 points, I wouldn't exactly fall all over myself to run 5 X-wings. It can be fun, sure, but even if I could run 5 generics I'd rather run 3 aces, maybe an ace and 3 generics. Make those lists more viable again, and I'm down in a heartbeat.

Edited by FatherTurin

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FFG made the x-wing specifically so you couldn't field five at once. 5 x-wings would be really powerful...

Sorry to rain on your parade...

But if we are talking about an x-wing fix, we need a barrel roll...

 

K-fighters can do 5 ships.

 

They do so with less durability though. One less shield is something you would notice missing. If they made a zero point droid down the road with 20pt T-65's and you would get two extra shields (plus whatever effect a zero point droid would bring which couldn't be much).

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I would argue that the devs realized that traditional missiles would become even more expensive on the A wing.  Thus why they created the proton rockets.  A wings, and basically A wings alone like the Procket, even for 5 points.  It creates a choice between a 5 point 5 dice attack, or putting those points to use elsewhere.  Choice = good.

 

And the Procket is essentially priced like a 5 point missile should be.  However it's not over powered on other ships due to the mechanics of the rocket.  Realistically, only 3 agility 2 attack ships are interested in it.  (3 attack primaries are only getting a 1 die increase, which isn't worth it, and 1-2agi ships don't get enough of a boost to offense to be worth it).  This leaves the TIE/x1 as the only other ship interested in the Procket.  Yet no one seems to take it on that.  Your Aces don't want it because it doesn't synergize with ATC, which essentially makes the x1 a 3.5 attack ship.  And your lower pilot skill people don't want it for the same reason you rarely see it on Greens or Prototypes - it's too difficult to maintain the R1 required for the shot.

 

Now the TAP has been introduced in W8, and we'll see how that plays, but the TAP prefers the TL action, at least the 1 point /V1 TAPs do... And there really isn't any reason not to take the /V1 unless you don't have points, in which case you're not discussing a 3pt missile anyways.  CR did not destroy the design space for missiles.

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FFG made the x-wing specifically so you couldn't field five at once. 5 x-wings would be really powerful...

Sorry to rain on your parade...

...

But if we are talking about an x-wing fix, we need a barrel roll...

 

It's true that FFG specifically started the X-Wing at 21 points to avoid 5 in a squadron.  That could have been a thing early but now we can have five Kihraxz Fighters which are nearly the same thing yet you don't see many complaints about them.

 

I'm sorry but I just can't see the X-Wing "fix" being something that simply gives it Barrel Roll unless you're also going to let the T-70 use it.

 

 

Absolutely No.

 

Maybe an upgrade that reduces the point of the torpedo slot upgrade by 2 points but remove the slot all together is a no. The Chardaan refit killed a lot of design space by the devs and they are just starting to repair the damage. But missiles are still out of the game and Chardaan cold be part of the reason.

This doesn't make any sense to me.  Refit was a 2 point reduction on a single ship, how does it kill design space?  Nor do I see how it would keep missiles out of the game.

 

 

As mentioned previously that -2 point cost effectively makes all missiles +2 points more expensive to use with an A-Wing due to the opportunity cost of missing the Refit.  You may see Prockets fielded on A-Wings but they seem custom made for them with that cost in mind and are rarely used by other ships.

 

The Refit does NOT really kill missile design space except to say any missile that you want on an A-Wing is generally going to have some big disadvantages when used on other ships otherwise it will probably be too cheap when used on Z-95s.

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The Chardaan refit was at least fluffy when it came to theme in the EU, on the Awing. Since there were 2 versions of the Awing. The Mark I which had no missiles. And the Mark II which was upgraded to have missile launchers. The Chadaan name came from the Xwing novels when, Tycho mentions that his Awing had all of its panels made of wood from the planet Chadaan.

Removing the torpedo slot from the Xwing doesnt make sense since there isnt a type of combat Xwing that doesnt have the torpedo tubes. There is the Recon-X but that removed its torpedo tubes for larger sensors in the nose cone. It also usually disabled the laser cannons since they would fry the sensors when they fired.

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FFG made the x-wing specifically so you couldn't field five at once. 5 x-wings would be really powerful...

Sorry to rain on your parade...

But if we are talking about an x-wing fix, we need a barrel roll...

 

K-fighters can do 5 ships.

 

They do so with less durability though. One less shield is something you would notice missing. If they made a zero point droid down the road with 20pt T-65's and you would get two extra shields (plus whatever effect a zero point droid would bring which couldn't be much).

 

 

5 K-fighters are still not considered good, while 4 T-70 are considered good. 5 X-Wings bring 2 HP more than the T-70 and extra attack dice, on a far worse dial and without boost nor barrel roll, BBBBZ brings 34 HP, that still 4 more than the X-Wing and 1 red die less, 4 green die less and and still with the barrel roll advantage for the B. 

I am not really sure how this would be too powerful in the current game. 

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I hope any Xwing buff is more interesting than a point reduction or adding barrel roll.

Not having a barrel roll isn't the worst thing ever.

If the general complaint is that the X-wing is overpriced for what you get, why would you complain about a simple fix that address that simple fact?  It is some of FFG's more "interesting" fixes that have tended to muddy the waters with unintended/unanticipated interactions, many of which have failed to adequately address the problem in the first place- which is why we are STILL discussing how to "fix" the T-65 X-wing, THE iconic fighter of the SW franchise and the one the game is named after.  When it comes to game design, follow the K.I.S.S. principle.

 

That said, I do like the - eventual - fix for another iconic SW ship, the TIE Advanced X/1 and eagerly await the same thing for the TIE Defender.

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