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Jaeger

Keeping the PC's hungry

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Ok, so I'm  Edge of the empire game.

The PC have a stock light freighter - but in the various starwars rpgs I've looked at, there seems to be no base costs for fuel & docking fees at spaceports/stations.

I want to keep them hungry.

I want them to really feel the pinch of ship maintenance & upkeep.

So anyone come up with or find a SW rpg resource that has costs for things like:

Starship fuel costs
(Per-day as that is how the EoE rpg show range)

To Stock with food etc.

Docking fees.

Potential customs duties & fees.


Surely someone here has come up with or knows a SW resource.

 

 

.
 

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Hi and welcome to the forum.

 

This is a topic that comes up pretty often. The forum does have a search function, or just browse around a little and you will see a lot of great stuff here. I really liked the document about the trade Route Economics. 

 

I don't really know why you feel the need to keep them hungry. I never really understood that GM mentality. Yeah, sure in the beginning of the game they are not rich or anything, but to purposely keep players poor, I never got that. I play, well, I don't play, I Game Master, but anyway, we play these to feel like Heroes, not space truckers trying to pay alimony and just scrap by. 

 

With the FFG system, they went for the sweeping narrative, not the minutia. They don't really talk about the daily cost of starship upkeep and fuel costs. 

 

But as the GM, you can set the prices are whatever you want. If you want them to be poor, then make them poor. If want them them to be a little more wealthy, then don't make the prices too high. It is really up to you, not some random resource out there. The cost for docking, refueling, and ship upkeep is 85% of the cost of the job they just completed. There you go.

 

Hope your players enjoy your game... 

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There is a "compiled resources" sticky thread here:

 

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/85616-compiled-resources-list/

 

There is this:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-cK7UE7hkkcTzJocVowQnJwRkk/view

 

There used to be another starship repair guide, but the link is broken.

 

Personally I don't worry about fixed costs too much, though a handy guideline is 1 Hull Point costs 500cr to fix.  This can add up to a lot, especially if you throw a lot of space battles their way.  But in addition to that, it's one place where the narrative dice are handy.  If they are piloting through an asteroid field and get a Despair, that could be a critical hit that takes out a component, and you can charge whatever seems reasonable.

 

As noted in the thread Desslok linked to, some people feel that making the party too hungry just leads to them looting or hoarding or worrying excessively about that at the expense of the story.  To me, keeping them hungry is less about money, and more about giving them compelling story goals.

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I don't really know why you feel the need to keep them hungry. I never really understood that GM mentality. Yeah, sure in the beginning of the game they are not rich or anything, but to purposely keep players poor, I never got that. I play, well, I don't play, I Game Master, but anyway, we play these to feel like Heroes, not space truckers trying to pay alimony and just scrap by. 

 

With the FFG system, they went for the sweeping narrative, not the minutia. They don't really talk about the daily cost of starship upkeep and fuel costs. 

 

 

Yeah, I'm with whafrog on this; Obligation works for me as a background, not a resource. 

 

In the original film, Han's debts are just a plot point. The movie doesn't actually concern itself with how he can pay his direct debit to Jabba's Payday Loans.

 

I may change the canon, but I try to keep the themes of the game. Star Wars is big and epic and sweeping.  Worrying about every last credit goes against that for me.

 

Yes, keeping the players motivated is important.  My EoE games have a sense of Wild West desperation, certainly. The Krayt Dragons crave independence, but there are always forces pulling at their strings.  The Black Sun group are trading their freedom and morality for power and influence. 

 

Our AOR Spec Force team has to be self-sufficient operating behind enemy lines, but we have another PC who started with maximum Contribution Rank because she's essentially in charge of the faction. But her problems go far beyond whether or not she can pay for breakfast.

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Some folk enjoy that kind of game, kind of like having a Firefly game in the star wars universe. I tend to have a docking fee based on how advanced the spaceport is but that will include fuel, food and emptying the septic tank etc. I suppose one way would be to have the crew work directly for someone who controls the funds. The crew does the jobs he gives them and they get the money after his cut. He may even handle major repairs, for a fee of course.

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You are certainly right eldath, some people do enjoy that type of game. That is why they have published two Firefly games, and the Tramp Frieghter/Smuggler theme is so popular in Star Wars even before Firefly.

But I really feel that the way people come here and word things are very important. We, as a collective whole really need to learn the importance of the type written language now more than ever. Texting, tweeting, emailing, and forum posting are the new way to really communicate. People really need to consider how they present themselves, or they will easily be misconstrued.

"I want to keep them hungry, I want them to feel the pinch of starship maintenance and upkeep."

"We are playing a Firefly-esque game, where they will be pretty poor, trying to keep the ship up and running."

Which one comes off as the atypical d-bag power tripping GM, and which seems like a GM wanting to engage with the group for a fun story? I'm not saying the OP is a d-bag, but he comes off that way. And also he seems like he wants everyone else to do the searching for him and hand him hyperlinks.

And people in Star Wars don't poop!

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Which one comes off as the atypical d-bag power tripping GM, and which seems like a GM wanting to engage with the group for a fun story? I'm not saying the OP is a d-bag, but he comes off that way. And also he seems like he wants everyone else to do the searching for him and hand him hyperlinks.

Wow, that's a load of unwarranted hostility. Nobody being a d-bag here but you. What do you think the forums are for?

The OPs main question comes directly from the rules. I'm AFB, but there's a little sidebar somewhere that talks about keeping the players hungry. And you know what? For the first few years here that was pretty much accepted. It's only recently we've had a long discussion about it.

So maybe get off your "we've all figured it out, why can't you" high horse.

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Um, hey dude, I'm not being hostile. I'm sorry if you took it that way. But I like how you cherry picked out the quote. That is why I gave two examples of how something can be worded and how it can be interpreted in different ways. When I said "which one comes off as", that it is all, and exactly what I meant, "how it comes off as". Not he is "being", or "he is", or anything else.

So I'm not being being hostile in any way. I didn't say he was a bad GM or anything. Perhaps you need to actually read what I wrote...

And I can't express my opinion now without being attacked? All I said "I'm not saying the OP is a d-bag, but he comes off that way."

I don't really see how that is being hostile or a d-bag myself. But, um, ok. I'm a d-bag. I guess for you, it's a lot like the pot calling the kettle black though.

I didn't say keeping the players hungry was a bad thing...but the way a GM goes about it can be a bad thing.

As far as giving some advice on using the search functuon, I don't really understand how I've figured it all out and how I'm on a high horse all of a sudden. But to come here, and just expect people to hand you stuff, yeah, I guess maybe I am on a horse or something. I do think people should at least try to find stuff on their own on first, but I didn't attack anyone that provided links or anything.

Did you bother reading my first post here on the thread? Where I said welcome to the forum? Where I gave a little friendly advice?

I guess not.

Man you sure can be effing bi polar around here...

Edited by R2builder

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For docking costs I usually keep it simple.  50 to 100 credits a day depending on the spaceport.  I charge more for busier/high volume spots.  Possibly less if it's basically a dirt field with minimal amenities.  I usually charge a few hundred credits now and again when I think about it for fuel but don't worry to hard.  Often I just incorporate fuel with the docking costs unless they want it gassed up "right now."  If they need a fast charge I'll charge another hundred credits or so.

 

Keep things simple so you don't need to fuss and take up time with things. 

 

On the whole "keep them hungry" debate.  Go with what your characters are having fun doing.  If they're getting frustrated with the starving trader thing then ease up.  It's about everybody having fun.  In the early game I often really enjoy that struggle just to survive, but as we get more successful and our reputation grows it can be fun to be wealthy.  That money then brings a whole lot of different problems you can throw at them.

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I want to keep them hungry.

I want them to really feel the pinch of ship maintenance & upkeep.

So anyone come up with or find a SW rpg resource that has costs for things like:

Starship fuel costs

(Per-day as that is how the EoE rpg show range)

To Stock with food etc.

Docking fees.

Potential customs duties & fees.

Surely someone here has come up with or knows a SW resource.

 

 

.

Unless your players sodding LOVE balancing check books.... Do not do this.

Easier solution for keeping them poor (if money is the resource you wish to limit):

"OK, jobs done, you get paid. After expenses you have X credits in spending money left."

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I want to keep them hungry.

I want them to really feel the pinch of ship maintenance & upkeep.

So anyone come up with or find a SW rpg resource that has costs for things like:

Starship fuel costs

(Per-day as that is how the EoE rpg show range)

To Stock with food etc.

Docking fees.

Potential customs duties & fees.

Surely someone here has come up with or knows a SW resource.

Unless your players sodding LOVE balancing check books.... Do not do this.

Easier solution for keeping them poor (if money is the resource you wish to limit):

"OK, jobs done, you get paid. After expenses you have X credits in spending money left."

 

Perhaps this is his groups preferred play style. I am sure his players will tell him if they are not enjoying it. 

 

Personally I wouldn't do this unless I had a specific game type in mind, but having recently played Traveler and having had to work out the ship mortgage, fuel, shipping costs and pay, I know some groups enjoy this style of game. Not for us to judge.

 

To the OP, you know your group better than we do, but you may find going into that much detail to be a lot of work. I would suggest you work with your group on the level of detail that they want. 

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If you can find the old WotC Starships of the Galaxy book, it covers a lot of the minutiae of licensing, docking bay fees, etc. Maybe not 100% of what you're looking for, but a good start. 

I actually think that using it as an Obligation is a pretty smart way to thread the needle on this particular topic. Every once in awhile, it becomes the main focus of a session or a major impediment, but most of the time it's not worth worrying about in favor of other events. 

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You can also look at the homesteading rules in Far Horizons.  The basic assumption (or at least the way I treat it) is that a homestead or a business covers basic living expenses, so you don't have to nickel and dime them for every Corellian ale, or even inexpensive basic equipment.
 
One other resource that hasn't been mentioned is the Tramp Freighters book from the old WEG game, it went into considerable detail on running that type of game.  If you google "D6 holocron" you'll find it.
 

Um, hey dude, I'm not being hostile.


Well, you basically told the guy he was a leech and "comes off" like a d-bag. Which is ironic coming from you because I think you have no idea how you come off, which is usually pretty intense (if frequently amusing).

Which isn't to say I don't generally like or appreciate your input. I do! I just think you built up a straw man by ascribing some assumptions to the OP, and then went overboard attacking your own assumptions.

And yeah...you can say what you want, and so can I. See how that works? It's a two way street. Or do you expect to be able to say whatever you want without consequence?

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I don't want my Players to waste time micro-managing off screen stuff like maintenance, rent, food and such, it's kinda boring.

 

What I've told my Players is that whatever monetary rewards they receive are net profits after normal expenses and can be considered personal wealth they can spend on goodies. I give them the option to get more Cr at a cost in obligation that if rolled will effect their ship or other equipment in some unpleasant way.

I only charge the PCs for things like this in game if it's relevant to the story or the location. An example would be the high docking fees at the Wheel where I have made them part with some of their cash to get the feel of the place.

Edited by FuriousGreg

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I would just keep it narrative. What i do is go easy on dishing out credits (I enjoy having the npcs for jobs lowball; use some dice here it will force the toons to balance their toon with some social skills if they want to get paid better). This way they dont have much anyway, which i dont see as bad but as a low "lvl" toon you no big shot. Those jobs go to Boba and the like. Standard docking fees and food and stuff i just cover as fluff. I do make the players fix or pay to fix damaged ship parts. I want to be able to save for a big or better ship or some super gear that really says "their class"; aka a "the big gun", "the heavy armor"...

If the players are smart and hash out some good plans, i reward them. Working toward building a small smuggling operation or a small pirate crew. If their smart, it should payoff at some point.

So dont keep them starving forever. It will get old.

Neve rsaw chew or han pan handling for credits to their ship out of dock on Tatt...

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Ok, so I'm  Edge of the empire game.

The PC have a stock light freighter - but in the various starwars rpgs I've looked at, there seems to be no base costs for fuel & docking fees at spaceports/stations.

I want to keep them hungry.

I want them to really feel the pinch of ship maintenance & upkeep.

So anyone come up with or find a SW rpg resource that has costs for things like:

Starship fuel costs

(Per-day as that is how the EoE rpg show range)

To Stock with food etc.

Docking fees.

Potential customs duties & fees.

Surely someone here has come up with or knows a SW resource.

 

 

.

 

 

They have the equivalent to a truck. Should this really try them out? If you want to try out them wait until they have a DP20 / CR90 or something similar and let the the crew payments dry them out quick if they are not constantly on the hunt for jobs. for their business. 

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