Giga-Bites Regional: Mis-Played Zeb Crew

[gamblertuba 5,647]

Watching the match on Tabletop General's Twitch feed between Ghost/Biggs and Palp Aces.  Inquisitor bumps Kanan in front arc.  Kanan uses Zeb to autoblaster Inquisitor to death using his normal attack and the bonus attack supplied by the docked phantom.  This was incorrect.  I argued this point for a while on the forums and emailed FFG, got the following reply:

 

Frank Brooks <fbrooks@fantasyflightgames.com> Mar 24  

to me

Hello Pete,

 

In response to your rules question:

Rules Question:

Situation: 

Zeb

 crew card on a Ghost with docked Phantom shuttle. Can the Ghost attack a touching ship using the extra turret attack granted by the Phantom title at the end of the combat phase. General Question: Is performing an attack synonymous with activating?

 

No to both. “When either you or they activate during the Combat phase” is specifically when those ships become the active ship during the Combat phase. Those ships are not (sic) considered touching during any other attacks outside of their Combat phase activation. This means that the Phantom’s attack at the end of the Combat phase, Corran Horn’s ability, Dengar’s ability, and for any other attacks outside of your activation, you count as touching.

 

Thanks for playing,

Frank Brooks

Associate Creative Content Developer

Fantasy Flight Games

fbrooks@fantasyflightgames.com

The information contained in this electronic message is privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the recipient named above. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.

 

 

I Think Frank made a typo in there but the intent is clear.  You are considered touching at all other times except for when one of the two ships activates during the combat phase.  (Of course, I could have made that up but feel free to email yourselves and maybe will make it into the FAQ.  RAW though, are pretty clear.)  

 

Zeb applies to a specific timing window.  The bonus attack at the end of the round does not fall into that timing window and Kanan could not legally target the Inquisitor.  

 

PS-  Was this the championship round?

Edited April 18, 2016 by gamblertuba

[Khyros 4,236]

Huh.  I wouldn't have interpreted the card that way.  Thanks for sharing the email.

[Sithborg 11,644]

So?

[gamblertuba 5,647]

A needle pulling thread?

 

A rules flub potentially changed the outcome of a regional.  Thought maybe folks should be aware of a pretty major rules misinterpretation.

[ThatJakeGuy 982]

So?

So somebody lost a Phantom (40+% of their list) to a second attack that should not have happened. If the judges had caught that, the game and therefore an entire Regional may have gone completely differently

[Sithborg 11,644]

It was a rules mistake. One that is very easy to make. I'm not sure even the judges would've caught it. I mean, this isn't cheating. I fail to see the issue. 

[ficklegreendice 34,362]

Not necessarily

Phantom still takes place in combat and specifies the ghost attacking

Not the first time an official email has been incorrect (re: Palp v omega L). They're only human after all

Edited April 18, 2016 by ficklegreendice

[Ynot 670]

End of Combat Phase is not the same as End Phase.

 

From the Learn To Play pdf:

 

1. Planning Phase: Each player secretly
chooses one maneuver for each of his ships by
using its maneuver dial.
2. Activation Phase: Each ship moves
according to its chosen maneuver.
3. Combat Phase: Each ship may perform one
attack.
4. End Phase: The players perform any
necessary cleanup.

 

Zeb would be activating at the end of Combat phase again, just like Gunner would trigger with the primary.  This answer by Frank is odd.

[dotswarlock 2,424]

I believe this would definitly be worth sharing on this thread which collects email rulings until the FAQ is updated:

 

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/206748-ffg-email-ruling-collection/

[ficklegreendice 34,362]

Do hope they don't **** poor phantom over. Double tap autoblaster is about the only worthwhile use of it, and removing it is just going to limit you to:

Autoblaster leebo zeb ghost with super dash

Which would suck because there's nothing more fun than outplaying your opoenent and not having dice cock things up

[gamblertuba 5,647]

It was a rules mistake. One that is very easy to make. I'm not sure even the judges would've caught it. I mean, this isn't cheating. I fail to see the issue. 

 

Of course it's an honest mistake.  Just trying to make people aware of the correct ruling.

 

End of Combat Phase is not the same as End Phase.

 

From the Learn To Play pdf:

 

1. Planning Phase: Each player secretly

chooses one maneuver for each of his ships by

using its maneuver dial.

2. Activation Phase: Each ship moves

according to its chosen maneuver.

3. Combat Phase: Each ship may perform one

attack.

4. End Phase: The players perform any

necessary cleanup.

 

Zeb would be activating at the end of Combat phase again, just like Gunner would trigger with the primary.  This answer by Frank is odd.

 

Because some folks just don't get it.  Each ship activates exactly once during the combat phase.  Attacking does not equal activation.  Read the email again.  Clearly stated and unambiguous.  Frank's answer certainly counts as RAI  AND completely consistent with RAW.

[Hujoe Bigs 2,071]

Yeah, calling mistake on the email. You are still in the combat phase, yes the end of it, but still in it. When you fire you become the active ship. Something seems off about this email. If you don't activate, you can't measure range.

Also where in the rules does it say you only can activate once? No where. This is a cards overrule rules type situation. Otherwise gunner and dengar wouldn't work.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Hujoe Bigs

[Sithborg 11,644]

 

It was a rules mistake. One that is very easy to make. I'm not sure even the judges would've caught it. I mean, this isn't cheating. I fail to see the issue. 

 

Of course it's an honest mistake.  Just trying to make people aware of the correct ruling.

 

 

Then make a thread about the ruling. There is absolutely no reason to bring up the Regional. 

[nigeltastic 3,808]

Not necessarily

Phantom still takes place in combat and specifies the ghost attacking

Not the first time an official email has been incorrect (re: Palp v omega L). They're only human after all

The key I believe is actually the word 'activate'. The phantom title to my knowledge doesn't activate the ghost again since ships can only activate once per combat step. It does allow another attack during the end of combat but it's not an activation, see reference in the email to 'dengar counter attacks' still counting as touching which is clearly within the combat step.

[ficklegreendice 34,362]

Raw does say you only activate once

Sucks; just when they added something fun to the game it's gone

And I'm talking about ghost/phantom. Half health blocked aces will still get ruined by your other ship if you zeb blast them

No reason to run that crappy z95 now

Edited April 18, 2016 by ficklegreendice

[Ynot 670]

 

It was a rules mistake. One that is very easy to make. I'm not sure even the judges would've caught it. I mean, this isn't cheating. I fail to see the issue. 

 

Of course it's an honest mistake.  Just trying to make people aware of the correct ruling.

 

End of Combat Phase is not the same as End Phase.

 

From the Learn To Play pdf:

 

1. Planning Phase: Each player secretly

chooses one maneuver for each of his ships by

using its maneuver dial.

2. Activation Phase: Each ship moves

according to its chosen maneuver.

3. Combat Phase: Each ship may perform one

attack.

4. End Phase: The players perform any

necessary cleanup.

 

Zeb would be activating at the end of Combat phase again, just like Gunner would trigger with the primary.  This answer by Frank is odd.

 

Because some folks just don't get it.  Each ship activates exactly once during the combat phase.  Attacking does not equal activation.  Read the email again.  Clearly stated and unambiguous.  Frank's answer certainly counts as RAI  AND completely consistent with RAW.

 

Activation is not mentioned at all in the Combat Phase.  Please show me where it says this?

[nigeltastic 3,808]

Raw does say you only activate once

Sucks; just when they added something fun to the game it's gone

And I'm talking about ghost/phantom. Half health blocked aces will still get ruined by your other ship if you zeb blast them

No reason to run that crappy z95 now

I mean... It still works just not if you're touching. You can still murder any that mistakenly wander (or connor net) into r1.

[Jeff Wilder 5,326]

Zeb would be activating at the end of Combat phase again, just like Gunner would trigger with the primary.  This answer by Frank is odd.

 

Frank's right on this one.

 

"Each ship becomes the active ship only once during this phase."  Combat Phase, p. 9, Rules Reference.

[TasteTheRainbow 8,726]

Interesting. Forgot about the "WHEN ACTIVE during the combat phase" part.

Edited April 18, 2016 by TasteTheRainbow

[Hujoe Bigs 2,071]

Zeb would be activating at the end of Combat phase again, just like Gunner would trigger with the primary.  This answer by Frank is odd.

 

Frank's right on this one.

 

"Each ship becomes the active ship only once during this phase."  Combat Phase, p. 9, Rules Reference.

Hm, missed this. Still seems odd...

[gamblertuba 5,647]

COMBAT PHASE During the Combat phase, each ship has an opportunity to perform one attack, starting with the ship with the highest pilot skill and continuing in descending order.

• If a player has multiple ships with the same pilot skill value, he can attack with them in any order.

• If both players have ships with the same pilot skill value, the player with initiative attacks with all of his ships of that pilot skill first.

• Each ship becomes the active ship only once during this phase.

• A ship may choose not to attack. Related Topics: Active Ship, Attack, Initiative, Pilot Skill, Round

 

 

Man, this gets old.

[Ynot 670]

 

Zeb would be activating at the end of Combat phase again, just like Gunner would trigger with the primary.  This answer by Frank is odd.

 

Frank's right on this one.

 

"Each ship becomes the active ship only once during this phase."  Combat Phase, p. 9, Rules Reference.

 

Please explain how Gunner and Luke work then?

 

They may attack a different target, therefore they are "activating" or becoming "active" again.

 

The initial attack is finished and failed, now they get to perform and additional attack against either the same target or another target.

 

Ghost/Phantom - while still in the Combat Phase, they get to become active again to attack.

[Vorpal Sword 14,685]

 

Zeb would be activating at the end of Combat phase again, just like Gunner would trigger with the primary.  This answer by Frank is odd.

 

Frank's right on this one.

 

"Each ship becomes the active ship only once during this phase."  Combat Phase, p. 9, Rules Reference.

 

 

Yeah, the email is unambiguously correct. It's an easy rule to miss, and I'm happy to see it getting broader attention.

 

...also not sure how it ruins the Ghost and Phantom, either. That's tantamount to saying there's no viable Ghost build that doesn't include Zeb, which seems like a problematic argument to make.

[Vorpal Sword 14,685]

 

 

Zeb would be activating at the end of Combat phase again, just like Gunner would trigger with the primary.  This answer by Frank is odd.

 

Frank's right on this one.

 

"Each ship becomes the active ship only once during this phase."  Combat Phase, p. 9, Rules Reference.

 

Please explain how Gunner and Luke work then?

 

They may attack a different target, therefore they are "activating" or becoming "active" again.

 

The initial attack is finished and failed, now they get to perform and additional attack against either the same target or another target.

 

Ghost/Phantom - while still in the Combat Phase, they get to become active again to attack.

 

 

It's actually not that complicated: while you're the active ship, you make an attack. But there's no rule that says you must be the active ship in order to attack (that is, attacking doesn't automatically make you the active ship again).

[gamblertuba 5,647]

Attacking DOES NOT EQUAL activating.  It's right there in the email.  Normally you only attack during your activation but that is does not mean you must activate to attack.

 

Just like you normally perform a focus action to assign a focus token but Soontir assigning a token when he takes stress does not count as a focus action.