Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Scoundrel

capturing seems like a somewhat unbalanced mechanic

Recommended Posts

going into my second game i don't have the play test data to support the claim, but i think capturing is a bit too strong in this game. Rescue missions are hard to come by and capturing seems really easy. don't get me wrong; i love the mechanic. In the PC version it really added flavor and it does so here. Its just really a big blow to the rebels and it seems a bit too easy.

 

I actually think there should be a starting (the ones that go back to hand) mission that could attempt to free a leader. I'm not sure, though. Its just a hunch. time will tell but one thing is for sure; if I'm doing stuff at a imp system, I'm bringing backup.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

going into my second game i don't have the play test data to support the claim, but i think capturing is a bit too strong in this game. Rescue missions are hard to come by and capturing seems really easy. don't get me wrong; i love the mechanic. In the PC version it really added flavor and it does so here. Its just really a big blow to the rebels and it seems a bit too easy.

 

I actually think there should be a starting (the ones that go back to hand) mission that could attempt to free a leader. I'm not sure, though. Its just a hunch. time will tell but one thing is for sure; if I'm doing stuff at a imp system, I'm bringing backup.

There is an alternate way to free your leader, but it's not easy (nor should.it be). If you mount a rescue attack, and defeat all of the imperial units in the system where your leader is captive (or force them to retreat), your leader is rescued.

Try and do thus before the Imperial player can move them to Coruscant.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Try and do thus before the Imperial player can move them to Coruscant.

 

What's the benefit (to the Empire) of having the prisoner on Coruscant?

Mechanically none, but as the seat of Imperial power, it's one system that should always be well defended. With the right objective (and objective cycling is not hard), Coruscant is worth two victory points each turn the rebels hold it. Which is good reason not to leave it vulnerable.

Also, unless the rebellion has established a foothold in the core, there's the added difficulty of moving an attack force to Coruscant (giving the Imperial player time to prepare for attack) and possibly having to get past other loyal Imperial systems to reach it.

So a smart Imperial might consider it worthwhile to move that captured leader to home base. Alternately, keeping them with the death star could prove similarly effective.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, agreeing with Marinealver twice in one day.  I think he is correct.  Don't you need to play capture on a planet with Imp troops on it?  If I am incorrect, PLEASE correct me.  Not at home, so no cards nearby.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, Capture Rebel Operative can only be played against a Rebel leader that is in a system that contains an Imperial unit. It has to be that way because if a captured leader is ever in a system that contains no Imperial units, it is automatically rescued. So even if the card did you allow you to play it against a Rebel leader in a system that contained no Imperial units, you would capture the leader and then it would immediately become rescued.  :huh:

 

Edit: changed "Rebel unit" to "Rebel leader"

Edited by CNYGamer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I've understood it all correctly then if the capture attempt is made in a system with just the activating imperial leader then if you drop another leader in to oppose you'll be rolling 2 leaders worth of dice, icon depending of course. Makes it a bit harder to capture, but the flip side is that the threat of a capture can really play with the rebel players head! Do you keep a leader back? Do you? Do you feel lucky? Do you?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You avoid capture by playing your leaders carefully or protecting them with SpecOps leaders. If you're sending a leader into the depths of Imperial space right away with Vader on a mission that's just asking to be captured.

 

The imperial player chooses his leaders assignments after the rebel player.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

You avoid capture by playing your leaders carefully or protecting them with SpecOps leaders. If you're sending a leader into the depths of Imperial space right away with Vader on a mission that's just asking to be captured.

 

The imperial player chooses his leaders assignments after the rebel player.

 

Yes, but, you can reveal them in any order you wish.  I have Boba Fett ready on a mission and my opponent has to go into my territory for a mission, they are going to think twice now about whether to challenge me on other missions due to the fact that Boba is one of the better capture leaders and he is just sitting there... waiting.  He could be on almost anything, but, the threat of him sitting on a capture mission, makes my opponent second guess all kinds of stuff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You avoid capture by playing your leaders carefully or protecting them with SpecOps leaders. If you're sending a leader into the depths of Imperial space right away with Vader on a mission that's just asking to be captured.

 

The imperial player chooses his leaders assignments after the rebel player.

Yes, but, you can reveal them in any order you wish.  I have Boba Fett ready on a mission and my opponent has to go into my territory for a mission, they are going to think twice now about whether to challenge me on other missions due to the fact that Boba is one of the better capture leaders and he is just sitting there... waiting.  He could be on almost anything, but, the threat of him sitting on a capture mission, makes my opponent second guess all kinds of stuff.

This. Totally this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Empire capturing Rebels should be fairly easy considering it happens in every movie (Leia, Han, Luke, then Rey).

By that logic freeing them should be just as easy. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, Capture Rebel Operative can only be played against a Rebel leader that is in a system that contains an Imperial unit. It has to be that way because if a captured leader is ever in a system that contains no Imperial units, it is automatically rescued. So even if the card did you allow you to play it against a Rebel leader in a system that contained no Imperial units, you would capture the leader and then it would immediately become rescued.  :huh:

 

Edit: changed "Rebel unit" to "Rebel leader"

We actually missed the "Imp Troops" part of this mission, but realized the error when we read the "rescue" rules allowed my Leader to just jump in a stolen ship and escape without rescue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Capturing is powerful.  I pulled off the trifecta once this weekend.  I captured Leia round 1, turned her round 2, captured Reikan turn 3, carbonited him turn 4, and captured another leader turn 5.  I could have possible captured quicker (same turn as the turn/carbonite), but that's risky as you could end up freeing someone instead.

It was crazy powerful.  Rebels were down to 5 leaders, and I was at 9. It was a really perfect draw of cards, coupled with dice rolls that were favoring me all game.  I stomped around and actually had a win by round 6 for the Imps.  Everything went my way.

 

Initial captures are pretty easy.  Leave a high red leader in the pool, and stick another high red leader on the capture card.  When the rebels send someone (hopefully with low red) on a mission to Imperial space, counter it with the red leader in the pool, then launch your capture mission.  Now you have 2 high red leaders and even if they counter, you likely have more dice.

 

Had another game though where capturing leaders was a waste of time for the Imps.  Captured leaders were getting freed left and right.  Rebellions would spark behind the main lines and free leaders.  Hidden fleets would pop up and move to free leaders.  Throw in a mission and an action card to free leaders, and the Empire just couldn't hold on to anyone.  Since freeing those leaders was tending to fall in line with objectives, the Imps were just wasting a lot of actions for no gain.  In fact one time, the rebels baited a trap with a leader.

 

Kashyyk was surrounded mostly by Imps, but rebel controlled/loyal.  The rebels played a easy capture leader there knowing the Imps might take the system anyways.  The Imps took the bait and attacked the system, won the battle, and took control.  They then launched a capture mission against the leader.  The rebels had a fairly large fleet/army nearby, but not enough to take on multiple star destroyers and the ground forces that where there.

They had prepped the wookiee uprising though.  So one of the SDs was destroyed.  The rebel fleet moved in (sans army) and was able to destroy the other SD (completing objective) and causing the Imps to retreat the rest of their naval forces.  This gave the rebels an objective point (cut supply lines).

Next turn had Lando pulling and Independent operation on the system and forcing the ground units to bug out also.

Kashyyk returned to rebel hands, the leader was freed, and the Imps lost 2 star destroyers gave two objective points to the rebels.

The Imp player thought they had a great plan by taking the system and capturing the leader, but it backfired spectacularly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Capturing is damaging, but it's also a cost to the Imps of a leader (generally using up either Vader or Fett, or more) and locking down the system (since the starting mission requires Imp units in-system).

 

It's also balanced by only being able to capture one at a time.  The only exception is if you complete either of the one-shot, 3-icon missions (carbon-freezing / lure of the dark side), which you have to time before the rebels can mount a rescue.

 

So is capturing damaging for the Rebels? Yes, and it should be.  Is it unbalanced? I don't think so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another subtlety to consider is what happens immediately after a Rebel leader is captured. That leader can't be moved from the system in which it was captured until the next round. But the Rebel player gets to take the first action during the Command Phase of that next round. So if the Rebel player happens to have Daring Rescue in his hands, potentially he can rescue the captured Rebel leader and vanish off to the Rebel base before the Imperial player can do anything about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another subtlety to consider is what happens immediately after a Rebel leader is captured. That leader can't be moved from the system in which it was captured until the next round. But the Rebel player gets to take the first action during the Command Phase of that next round. So if the Rebel player happens to have Daring Rescue in his hands, potentially he can rescue the captured Rebel leader and vanish off to the Rebel base before the Imperial player can do anything about it.

 

I played a game yesterday where we captured Luke on one round.  The next round, we lined up Interrogation Droid and Lure of the Dark Side to maximize our gain from Luke.  However, the Rebels mounted a 2 Leader Daring Rescue as their first action and freed Luke, causing 2 wasted mission assignments (with 2 leaders on each...we *really* wanted those two missions to succeed!).  

 

The game was coming down to the wire too:  we had narrowed down where the Rebel Base could be to just 3 systems, but the Rebels were only 2 points shy of victory.  If they completed one objective this round, they would win.  But turning Luke to the Dark Side would lose them a point and buy us an extra round to get to Ryloth (which it turns out is where the base was).  But the Rebels freed Luke and then played the No Captured Leaders objective to win.

 

What's worse is that I convinced my Imperial teammate to delay moving one of our fleets towards Ryloth, by a round, to capture Luke (to get the Imperial units in his system).  If we hadn't done that, we would've made landfall on Ryloth in time and likely would've crushed the meager forces remaining in their base.

 

So, at game's conclusion, one of the Rebel players said, "So!  The Emperor and Vader's obsession with Luke Skywalker ultimately caused their defeat!!"  How thematically we inadvertently played there. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...