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ShadoWarrior

I am not your father...

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There is no evidence though to support the speculation.  The actual evidence doesn't support it at all.

 

You do know that circumstantial evidence is still evidence, right?

 

There is no circumstancial evidence either.  A Force vision from an inanimate object is not a paternity test.  

 

She could have been a youngling at the school.  

 

She could be a Kenobi, given Obi Wan speaks to her, and technically he had that saber longer than Anakin and Luke combined.

 

You're taking the event of the Force vision via the lightsaber and saying that equals evidence of your speculation.  The Force vision was a factual event, it is what it is, and that's all it is.  It does not prove anything. For it to be circumstantial evidence, it would be need to be a fact that proves paternity.

 

 

I think you're confusing circumstantial evidence with direct evidence.

 

Circumstantial evidence is evidence that relies on an inference to connect it to a conclusion of fact. By contrast, direct evidence supports the truth of an assertion directly, without need for any additional evidence or inference. A paternity test would be direct evidence.

 

True enough about the two, but the circumstantial evidence has to relate to the question at hand. A Force vision has nothing to do with paternity, conception or parenthood, and in fact the Force vision has Obi Wan speaking to her by name, so even if I cede the point on semantics, it actually doesn't support Luke as father, it refutes it.

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True enough about the two, but the circumstantial evidence has to relate to the question at hand. A Force vision has nothing to do with paternity, conception or parenthood, and in fact the Force vision has Obi Wan speaking to her by name, so even if I cede the point on semantics, it actually doesn't support Luke as father, it refutes it.

 

Maz has potentially had the lightsaber longer than Kenobi, and we know she's a Force user. Maybe she is Rey's father! Mwahahaha!

Ahem. No. And how does Obi-Wan's voice - the voice of her father's mentor and her grandfather's mentor - speaking in the vision refute the idea that Luke is her father? It doesn't. In fact, it provides an interesting form of support.

But the lightsaber vision isn't the only circumstantial evidence. I'm also relying on the intense interest Kylo Ren had in the "girl" who helped BB-8 escape Jakku. He seemed overly concerned all of a sudden, as if maybe he knew there was a Force-sensitive young woman living somewhere on that sparse planet.

I'm well aware it's all circumstantial, but it ties it all together in a nice package, really.

Just for giggles, here's what I posted in a prior thread.

 

 

I'm about 99% certain Rey is Luke's daughter. Let's look at the evidence.

  • Right from the start, we know that Star Wars (at least the main movies, as opposed to the upcoming anthologies) is a story about the Skywalker dynasty. Lucas has said so, and Disney has confirmed it. Now, that could mean Ben is the Skywalker in question here, since he is Anakin's grandson, so let's not make any assumptions yet.
  • The lightsaber of Luke and Anakin Skywalker called to Rey, drew her in with the Force. Some have argued that Obi-Wan Kenobi had possession of the weapon longer than either Anakin or Luke, but Kenobi didn't fight with it as far as we know. Not just that, but we know from the Clone Wars series that the crystal of a lightsaber calls to its owner before it's made. (Of course, this could point to the "reincarnated Anakin" theory... but read on!)
  • The vision Rey has is what's most important to this theory. There's a scene in the vision when Kylo and the Knights of Ren are slaughtering the members of the new Jedi Order. Then it cuts to an image of Rey standing in front of them, and we see from Rey's point of view Kylo reaching out to grab her. The scene then cuts to Jakku. Rey is young - six or seven years old - and being dragged off by Unkar Plutt. Rey is shouting for them not to leave her. Who? In the background we see a ship taking off. Did anyone notice how much this ship looked like a First Order transport? It sure did to me! How can that be?

    Well... here's the crux of it all. If she is indeed Luke's daughter, then she does have family members left. Luke. Leia. Ben Solo... aka Kylo Ren. My theory is that Kylo, still hearing the call of the Light (which he admitted to his father), couldn't kill his little cousin. Instead, he abducted her, flew her somewhere off into the Outer Rim, and left her behind. If that is indeed a First Order troop transport (and I think it is!), he's the most obvious culprit. So... either Kylo Ren wiped Rey's mind (something he might be able to do, as he appears to be one of the most powerful mental savants we've seen in the Star Wars universe) or she lost some of her memory due to the traumatic experience of it all. But she knows her family - perhaps her cousin? - dropped her off on Jakku. It also explains why Kylo Ren is so suddenly concerned when he finds out BB-8 and FN2187 have escaped with the help of a girl.

Anyway, there's potentially more to it, but that's what I've got for now.

Edited by Simon Retold

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But the lightsaber vision isn't the only circumstantial evidence. I'm also relying on the intense interest Kylo Ren had in the "girl" who helped BB-8 escape Jakku. He seemed overly concerned all of a sudden, as if maybe he knew there was a Force-sensitive young woman living somewhere on that sparse planet.

I'm well aware it's all circumstantial, but it ties it all together in a nice package, really.

Just for giggles, here's what I posted in a prior thread.

 

 

 

I'm about 99% certain Rey is Luke's daughter. Let's look at the evidence.

  • Right from the start, we know that Star Wars (at least the main movies, as opposed to the upcoming anthologies) is a story about the Skywalker dynasty. Lucas has said so, and Disney has confirmed it. Now, that could mean Ben is the Skywalker in question here, since he is Anakin's grandson, so let's not make any assumptions yet.
  • The lightsaber of Luke and Anakin Skywalker called to Rey, drew her in with the Force. Some have argued that Obi-Wan Kenobi had possession of the weapon longer than either Anakin or Luke, but Kenobi didn't fight with it as far as we know. Not just that, but we know from the Clone Wars series that the crystal of a lightsaber calls to its owner before it's made. (Of course, this could point to the "reincarnated Anakin" theory... but read on!)
  • The vision Rey has is what's most important to this theory. There's a scene in the vision when Kylo and the Knights of Ren are slaughtering the members of the new Jedi Order. Then it cuts to an image of Rey standing in front of them, and we see from Rey's point of view Kylo reaching out to grab her. The scene then cuts to Jakku. Rey is young - six or seven years old - and being dragged off by Unkar Plutt. Rey is shouting for them not to leave her. Who? In the background we see a ship taking off. Did anyone notice how much this ship looked like a First Order transport? It sure did to me! How can that be?

    Well... here's the crux of it all. If she is indeed Luke's daughter, then she does have family members left. Luke. Leia. Ben Solo... aka Kylo Ren. My theory is that Kylo, still hearing the call of the Light (which he admitted to his father), couldn't kill his little cousin. Instead, he abducted her, flew her somewhere off into the Outer Rim, and left her behind. If that is indeed a First Order troop transport (and I think it is!), he's the most obvious culprit. So... either Kylo Ren wiped Rey's mind (something he might be able to do, as he appears to be one of the most powerful mental savants we've seen in the Star Wars universe) or she lost some of her memory due to the traumatic experience of it all. But she knows her family - perhaps her cousin? - dropped her off on Jakku. It also explains why Kylo Ren is so suddenly concerned when he finds out BB-8 and FN2187 have escaped with the help of a girl.

Anyway, there's potentially more to it, but that's what I've got for now.

 

 

You're reading too much into things that can be explained most directly and simply -- Occam's Razor -- by JJ Abrams being an average filmmaker and storyteller at best, and/or by the way that hitting a list of "Star Wars bullet points" was the #1 priority in the writing and filming TFA.

Edited by MaxKilljoy

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But the lightsaber vision isn't the only circumstantial evidence. I'm also relying on the intense interest Kylo Ren had in the "girl" who helped BB-8 escape Jakku. He seemed overly concerned all of a sudden, as if maybe he knew there was a Force-sensitive young woman living somewhere on that sparse planet.

I'm well aware it's all circumstantial, but it ties it all together in a nice package, really.

Just for giggles, here's what I posted in a prior thread.

 

 

 

I'm about 99% certain Rey is Luke's daughter. Let's look at the evidence.

  • Right from the start, we know that Star Wars (at least the main movies, as opposed to the upcoming anthologies) is a story about the Skywalker dynasty. Lucas has said so, and Disney has confirmed it. Now, that could mean Ben is the Skywalker in question here, since he is Anakin's grandson, so let's not make any assumptions yet.
  • The lightsaber of Luke and Anakin Skywalker called to Rey, drew her in with the Force. Some have argued that Obi-Wan Kenobi had possession of the weapon longer than either Anakin or Luke, but Kenobi didn't fight with it as far as we know. Not just that, but we know from the Clone Wars series that the crystal of a lightsaber calls to its owner before it's made. (Of course, this could point to the "reincarnated Anakin" theory... but read on!)
  • The vision Rey has is what's most important to this theory. There's a scene in the vision when Kylo and the Knights of Ren are slaughtering the members of the new Jedi Order. Then it cuts to an image of Rey standing in front of them, and we see from Rey's point of view Kylo reaching out to grab her. The scene then cuts to Jakku. Rey is young - six or seven years old - and being dragged off by Unkar Plutt. Rey is shouting for them not to leave her. Who? In the background we see a ship taking off. Did anyone notice how much this ship looked like a First Order transport? It sure did to me! How can that be?

    Well... here's the crux of it all. If she is indeed Luke's daughter, then she does have family members left. Luke. Leia. Ben Solo... aka Kylo Ren. My theory is that Kylo, still hearing the call of the Light (which he admitted to his father), couldn't kill his little cousin. Instead, he abducted her, flew her somewhere off into the Outer Rim, and left her behind. If that is indeed a First Order troop transport (and I think it is!), he's the most obvious culprit. So... either Kylo Ren wiped Rey's mind (something he might be able to do, as he appears to be one of the most powerful mental savants we've seen in the Star Wars universe) or she lost some of her memory due to the traumatic experience of it all. But she knows her family - perhaps her cousin? - dropped her off on Jakku. It also explains why Kylo Ren is so suddenly concerned when he finds out BB-8 and FN2187 have escaped with the help of a girl.

Anyway, there's potentially more to it, but that's what I've got for now.

 

 

You're reading too much into things that can be explained most directly and simply -- Occam's Razor -- by JJ Abrams being an average filmmaker and storyteller at best, and/or by the way that hitting a list of "Star Wars bullet points" was the #1 priority in the writing and filming TFA.

 

 

That's not how Occam's Razor works, but I'm not surprised you lack an understanding of even that basic concept given your contempt for conventional literary theory. :V

 

Oh, and in your haste to jump on the "hate%$ JJ Abrams" bandwagon you've forgotten that he co-wrote TFA with Lawrence Kasdan, the man who wrote Empire Strikes Back. I guess that was a mediocre film as well?

 

Edit: apparently the forum doesn't automatically censor "hate%$", good to know.

Edited by Jace911

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True enough about the two, but the circumstantial evidence has to relate to the question at hand. A Force vision has nothing to do with paternity, conception or parenthood, and in fact the Force vision has Obi Wan speaking to her by name, so even if I cede the point on semantics, it actually doesn't support Luke as father, it refutes it.

 

Maz has potentially had the lightsaber longer than Kenobi, and we know she's a Force user. Maybe she is Rey's father! Mwahahaha!

Ahem. No. And how does Obi-Wan's voice - the voice of her father's mentor and her grandfather's mentor - speaking in the vision refute the idea that Luke is her father? It doesn't. In fact, it provides an interesting form of support.

But the lightsaber vision isn't the only circumstantial evidence. I'm also relying on the intense interest Kylo Ren had in the "girl" who helped BB-8 escape Jakku. He seemed overly concerned all of a sudden, as if maybe he knew there was a Force-sensitive young woman living somewhere on that sparse planet.

I'm well aware it's all circumstantial, but it ties it all together in a nice package, really.

Just for giggles, here's what I posted in a prior thread.

 

 

I'm about 99% certain Rey is Luke's daughter. Let's look at the evidence.

  • Right from the start, we know that Star Wars (at least the main movies, as opposed to the upcoming anthologies) is a story about the Skywalker dynasty. Lucas has said so, and Disney has confirmed it. Now, that could mean Ben is the Skywalker in question here, since he is Anakin's grandson, so let's not make any assumptions yet.
  • The lightsaber of Luke and Anakin Skywalker called to Rey, drew her in with the Force. Some have argued that Obi-Wan Kenobi had possession of the weapon longer than either Anakin or Luke, but Kenobi didn't fight with it as far as we know. Not just that, but we know from the Clone Wars series that the crystal of a lightsaber calls to its owner before it's made. (Of course, this could point to the "reincarnated Anakin" theory... but read on!)
  • The vision Rey has is what's most important to this theory. There's a scene in the vision when Kylo and the Knights of Ren are slaughtering the members of the new Jedi Order. Then it cuts to an image of Rey standing in front of them, and we see from Rey's point of view Kylo reaching out to grab her. The scene then cuts to Jakku. Rey is young - six or seven years old - and being dragged off by Unkar Plutt. Rey is shouting for them not to leave her. Who? In the background we see a ship taking off. Did anyone notice how much this ship looked like a First Order transport? It sure did to me! How can that be?

    Well... here's the crux of it all. If she is indeed Luke's daughter, then she does have family members left. Luke. Leia. Ben Solo... aka Kylo Ren. My theory is that Kylo, still hearing the call of the Light (which he admitted to his father), couldn't kill his little cousin. Instead, he abducted her, flew her somewhere off into the Outer Rim, and left her behind. If that is indeed a First Order troop transport (and I think it is!), he's the most obvious culprit. So... either Kylo Ren wiped Rey's mind (something he might be able to do, as he appears to be one of the most powerful mental savants we've seen in the Star Wars universe) or she lost some of her memory due to the traumatic experience of it all. But she knows her family - perhaps her cousin? - dropped her off on Jakku. It also explains why Kylo Ren is so suddenly concerned when he finds out BB-8 and FN2187 have escaped with the help of a girl.

Anyway, there's potentially more to it, but that's what I've got for now.

Which also explains why Unkar is in contact with the First Order. Kylo wants to know if she leaves the planet.

Speaking of paternity tests, let's not forget that in Star Wars a positive test is as simple as the words "I am your father."

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The most direct inference I have found to Rey being Luke's daughter is the positioning of Rey during the Force Vision. She has flashes of the past, and in each flash she is placed in one of two places - either that of her younger self, or in the position of Luke himself. See the below image for an example;

 

tumblr_inline_o039b2lUSY1scy8od_500.png

 

This leads to the suggestion that this is a genetic memory enshrouded in the Force, one passed from parent to child. 

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The force vision of the lightsaber is proof of pretty much nothing.

It could be showing her all these things because she's lukes daugher.

It could be showing her all these things because she's simply seeing what the previous owner has experienced.

It could be showing her all these thigns because it's a MacGuffin.

Simple as that.

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The force vision of the lightsaber is proof of pretty much nothing.

It could be showing her all these things because she's lukes daugher.

It could be showing her all these things because she's simply seeing what the previous owner has experienced.

It could be showing her all these thigns because it's a MacGuffin.

Simple as that.

 

Exactly.  Like much of the "evidence", it's a sort of Rorschach test, because it could "support" many different hypotheses. 

 

We won't know who Rey's parents are until we see it revealed on screen, if that ever happens.  Until then, it's all just speculation

Edited by MaxKilljoy

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Well, I'm speculating that it is just a little too much coincidence for Rey to be so connected to Luke's lightsaber, see him in a Force vision, and have an image of an island in her head....

 

Well, to be fair, it's one of the last lightsabers in existence.  Assuming Luke didn't start churning out sabers at his school, the green one he used in Return, and that blue one are probably all that exist in the universe, barring the handmade one of Ren's.   So, if you're going to have a scene where  someone triggers a Force vision from touching a lightsaber, it's pretty much going to have to be Luke's saber, no matter who the person is.   Now that being said, I do think she's his daughter, but I could easily see most of the plot points I point to supporting that theory, could easily be red herrings, or just a neutral thing that could've triggered for anyone with a Force sensitivity.   

 

I do find the speculation fun though, though I'm still more interested in whether or not Finn is Force sensitive.  I personally don't really care if Rey is Luke's kid, as it doesn't really change the story for me in any real significant way.  She's a Force user, that's pretty much the only important factor.  "She's a Skywalker" is secondary to me.  Now Finn, my boy Finn, I'm so on board for him to become one too (after spending most of Episode 8 thinking he's not due to getting his butt kicked...even though Luke got his butt kicked in his first saber fight too).  

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Lineage has always been a major motif in Star Wars. Back in 1978 I hoped to turn my father from the dark side of supporting imperialistic wars and hunting jedi hippies to extinction. The sins of the father visited on the son and all that... How I miss GL

Edited by Orjo Creld

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A note on whether the island comment represented Kylo getting Luke's location - it couldn't have. This is taken from the script;

 

KYLO REN (CONT'D)

You know I can take whatever I want.
Trepidation flashes across Rey's eyes. Kylo Ren moves closer,
his hand rising toward her. She recoils, but has nowhere to
go. Kylo Ren nearly TOUCHES HER FACE...
THEY'RE BOTH SURPRISED: they react to a feeling that passes
between them -- AN ENERGY THEY RECOGNIZE IN EACH OTHER.
And then it's gone. Adversaries again. Rey can't move,
quietly strains in agony, trying to resist Ren's probing.

KYLO REN (CONT'D)
... You're so lonely... so afraid to
leave...
(then, slight smile)
At night, desperate to sleep... you
imagine an ocean. I see it -- I see
the island...
Tears stream down her face as she resists. She tries to
break free, but can't budge.

KYLO REN (CONT'D)
And Han Solo. You feel like he's
the father you never had. He would've
disappointed you.



(CONTINUED)

CONTINUED:
His hand still on her face, her eyes fierce through the agony:

REY
-- Get out of my head --
But this just makes Kylo lean closer.

KYLO REN
I know you've seen the map. It's in
there... and now you'll give it to
me. Don't be afraid. I feel it
too.

 

This clearly shows the image being in Kylo's mind and him still engaging the search for where Luke is, not relating the two pieces of information. From this, I take it to mean he merely thinks the island is a place of comfort that Rey goes to in her mind when she is trying to sleep and avoid thinking about her loneliness.

 

This I see as a narrative nod to the idea that when the loneliness of her family leaving her is at its greatest, she (as we learn from the end of the movie) makes a mental connection to Luke's location. Now, whether this is because of her being there (a supposition I doubt as the only reference to the timing of his disappearance was Han's statement of "He was training a new generation of Jedi. One boy, an apprentice turned against him, destroyed it all. Luke felt responsible... He walked away from everything" and the location that Luke was at wasn't known to him per Han's follow up of "There're a lot of rumors. Stories. The people who knew him the best think he went looking for the first Jedi temple") with her parents previously or being mentally in communication on some level with Luke doesn't matter - the significance is that when she feels the loneliness of her abandonment, she connects with Luke. In my opinion, this is a strong indicator that Luke is directly associated with her missing family.

Edited by Kyla

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Gave up reading by the bottom of Page 2 so might repeat a comment already made:

As someone who has watched Star Wars Rebels Season One, I can confirm that Kanan's lightsaber called to Ezra. Ezra who knows who his parents are and is not in any way related to Kanan. Ezra even opened a Jedi holocron while chillin before he even knew he was force sensitive. Ezra did some "Force Leaps" without any training and not knowing he was force sensitive. All of that was in the first two episodes. Ezra, holding onto a crate full of blasters jumped into the open ramp of the Ghost as it hovered quite high off the ground. Ezra jumped high over a stormtrooper and landed gracefully behind him.

Star Wars is about the Skywalker family? Anakin Skywalker had two twins. Luke and his twin sister Leia who was adopted by the Organa's. Leia Organa is a Skywalker. Leia Organa met a scoundrel called Han Solo, fell in love, had sex and gave birth to a boy called Ben. Han Solo shouted "Ben" and Kylo Ren who, it was already revealed, was his son. Kylo Ren was praying to Darth Vader's helmet and said "grandfather". Thus he continues the Skywalker family tree.

As to Rey, I've heard it all:

Luke's daughter

Leia's daughter

Obi-Wan's granddaughter

Kanan's daughter

Another virgin birth chosen one destined to bring balance to the Force

Like others, I hope her parents are characters nobody has heard of and neither were strong in the Force. If there was to be a known parent, I'd like it to be Wedge. He's not Force Sensitive but is still a name that would be recognizable to all fans.

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My current theory is Willrow Hood was escaping Bespin, not with an data core, or icecream maker, but the generic sample of his dead husband. He later cloned said husband as a tribute, but in a moment of shame, and never recovering from the loss of his husband he had a nervous breakdown stemminf from the stresses of being a single father and internal mental trouble and distress, he dropped his daughter off on Jakku.

Or The collector (Benecio Del Toro) traded her for 40 portions, and a tank of space gas.

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My current theory is Willrow Hood was escaping Bespin, not with an data core, or icecream maker, but the generic sample of his dead husband. He later cloned said husband as a tribute, but in a moment of shame, and never recovering from the loss of his husband he had a nervous breakdown stemminf from the stresses of being a single father and internal mental trouble and distress, he dropped his daughter off on Jakku.

Or The collector (Benecio Del Toro) traded her for 40 portions, and a tank of space gas.

 

I would very much be in favor of Franky Four Fingers being involved.

 

Edit: Just realized that Benicio is involved in Episode VIII:o

Edited by ghost warlock

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