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tropoFarmer

2016 Regional Championships Results

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Jarvis,  You could of still played your opponent for the trophy and prises etc but then given your opponent the 'bye' if you were not going. Doesn't make sense unless 1st and 2nd got identical prises which isn't the case.

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TryerImp, at the moment of the tourney it was explained to me that the bye was for Origins, which I didn't plan on going to. What I didn't find out till later was that the same bye could also be used at Gen Con, which I do plan on going to. If i knew that I would have played. The only difference with 1st and 2nd was the bye, the trophy, and bragging rights to say your team won a regionals. None of those interested me at 11:30 p.m., at the time lol. Yes, I don't get to come on here and spout that I won the regionals, but I am confident enough in my play and team that I wasn't looking for the validation. Which sounds more condescending than I mean it to be lol. 

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I attended the Denver Regional last night, in attendance were 12 players with 4 using SC byes.  Advanced Tournament rules would have called for 4 rounds with a cut to Top 8, but the TO decided to use the Basic Tournament structure and did 4 rounds with no cut.  

 

The TO picked a map and we played the "A" mission the first round, then the "B" mission the second, and did the same thing for rounds 3 and 4...it was explained that it was to save time, so we weren't putting together maps.  Added with 50 minute tournament rounds (yes, 50 minutes), it turned out to be an interesting evening.

 

I have no idea what the list was that won, as I didn't play against it, but I ended up 3-1 and in 3rd place using the list I won the Atlanta Regional last week, which is:

 

eSnowtrooper

eStormtrooper x2

rRoyal Guard

rImperial Officer x2

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FFG should enforce consistency among TOs. Regionals definitely should be a "Premier/Advanced" event, and the TO should be knowledgeable of all current basic tournament rules.

I sent FFG OP a detailed email, laying out the tournament situation. Back in my home meta, we've had the conversation multiple times regarding a standardized TO certification system...but seeing what is happening with the MTG Judges, it might be delayed further.

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I attended the Denver Regional last night, in attendance were 12 players with 4 using SC byes.  Advanced Tournament rules would have called for 4 rounds with a cut to Top 8, but the TO decided to use the Basic Tournament structure and did 4 rounds with no cut.  

 

The TO picked a map and we played the "A" mission the first round, then the "B" mission the second, and did the same thing for rounds 3 and 4...it was explained that it was to save time, so we weren't putting together maps.  Added with 50 minute tournament rounds (yes, 50 minutes), it turned out to be an interesting evening.

 

I have no idea what the list was that won, as I didn't play against it, but I ended up 3-1 and in 3rd place using the list I won the Atlanta Regional last week, which is:

 

eSnowtrooper

eStormtrooper x2

rRoyal Guard

rImperial Officer x2

This TO (or maybe the store itself) needs to be booted from FFG's list of acceptable TOs (or stores).  Three infractions or variances from the clearly established tournament rules.  It sounds like the TO didn't want to be there at all, which is bad for the game and the players.

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Covenant's regional in Tulsa today was a fiasco too. But in a way that FFG is apparently fine with.

End of round 3. 8 players have each won 2 games, for a tournament score of 6 points. The winners will advance to the top 8, the losers may or may not depending on strength of schedule - the winners of the other matches in round 4 will still have a shot.

Except they won't, because THE ENTIRE TOP 8 AS OF THE BEGINNING OF ROUND 4 AGREE TO DRAW. They each get 1 point, and whatever happens at the other tables is moot.

 

"Collusion among players to manipulate scoring is expressly forbidden." Somehow, apparently, this doesn't apply in this case. Because in FFG land, words don't have meanings.

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It is up to the TO to notice and penalize collusion.

 

The intentional draw rule was not intended to allow blatant collusion. You cannot argue otherwise with a straight face. If the rule was abused with the expressed purpose of collusion, it was the TO's responsibility to identify that fact and act accordingly. If he/she didn't, it's not FFG's fault.

 

Basically, the guy/gal should have manned up and taken a stand, but instead dropped the ball, hiding from their responsibilities behind some words that were twisted out of context. You can't blame FFG for that.

 

When following rules, use common sense. If you don't, it's on you, not on the rules.

Edited by Don_Silvarro

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I made that exact argument, they looked it up, and this is what FFG wants. They showed me this article about how this isn't collusion.

It's insanity.

EDIT: https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2016/4/15/intentional-draws/

There it is in black and white, agreeing to draw isn't collusion. The TO was like, I feel for you, this seems totally absurd to me too, but it's what FFG decided, my hands are tied.

Edited by The Gas

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That article explains how the intentional draw rule was instituted to save everyone the trouble of going through the motions in a game that can easily be intentionally brought to a tie anyway, especially in games which use a multiple-matches-per-round structure. Imperial Assault doesn't use that structure, and with how the dice mechanics and the tiebreakers in the ruleset work, it is pretty **** hard to play a game to a specific result, if not impossible. The rule was not intended for Imperial Assault and ended up in the tournament pack because FFG made the error of applying it liberally to all of their games without thinking things through.

 

In my opinion, the common sense and rule intention argument still stands. If it was up to me personally, I'd still disallow it, and if they wanted to complain to FFG, let them. But I can see how one would decide not to take that stand.

 

But then again, I was always a hardline guy when it came to running events. I guess it's a remnant of the days spent playing other miniature games. Back then, most games didn't have any tournament structure to hold your hand, it's a fairly recent invention as far as I'm concerned*, so it was all up to the TO's decision, which was always final, no ifs and buts.

 

I still acknowledge there's a problem though, and I'm glad they are intending to get rid of that loophole in the next tournament pack.

 

(*and back in my day, we went ten miles uphill in the snow to get to the event, and we liked it!)

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I made that exact argument, they looked it up, and this is what FFG wants. They showed me this article about how this isn't collusion.It's insanity.EDIT: https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2016/4/15/intentional-draws/There it is in black and white, agreeing to draw isn't collusion. The TO was like, I feel for you, this seems totally absurd to me too, but it's what FFG decided, my hands are tied.

Stupid intentional draws be damned. Thank the Force they'll be gone before too long. However does anyone have results from the Tulsa Regional?

Edited by brystrom

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Yes, the results are that I lost. :-) I was among those who didn't make the cut as the result of the draws, though I'm not as bothered as the previous poster (I think that ffg has said this is okay under their current rules, though it's lame). I think four of the top 8 had Bantha lists (one of which was a double Bantha), one had a rebel trooper spam list, one had storm trooper list, and one had a twins list, not sure about the other two. I know Jesse from Vader's Finest was in the top 8. Other than that I can't say.

-ryanjamal

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I attended the Denver Regional last night, in attendance were 12 players with 4 using SC byes.  Advanced Tournament rules would have called for 4 rounds with a cut to Top 8, but the TO decided to use the Basic Tournament structure and did 4 rounds with no cut.  

 

The TO picked a map and we played the "A" mission the first round, then the "B" mission the second, and did the same thing for rounds 3 and 4...it was explained that it was to save time, so we weren't putting together maps.  Added with 50 minute tournament rounds (yes, 50 minutes), it turned out to be an interesting evening.

 

I have no idea what the list was that won, as I didn't play against it, but I ended up 3-1 and in 3rd place using the list I won the Atlanta Regional last week, which is:

 

eSnowtrooper

eStormtrooper x2

rRoyal Guard

rImperial Officer x2

I think part of the problem was that the whole weekend was Star Wars. Imperial Assault started Friday at 6:00PM (maybe a little later). This meant to play 6 or 7 rounds at full time we would have been there until 2AM-3AM with X-Wing starting at 9AM. Armada was Sunday. The TO didn't decide to play basic, he let the players vote on what format they wanted to play, basic or advanced, and I think 7 or 8 picked basic mainly because they were playing x-wing the next day. I would have liked longer games and picking new maps each round rather than using the same one twice after it was decided we were only playing 4 rounds, but I was mainly just happy to be playing.

I think first was:

eStormtroopers x2

eSnowtroopers

Heavy Stormtroopers

Officer x3

(This was my one loss, and he completely out played me, I think it was 22-2, he did a great job of taking down complete squads before I could move a piece back to save the points)

I got 4th with:

eStormtroopers x2

Stormtroopers x3

Officers x2

The tournament worked out to a single undefeated with 12 players with 4 byes, so it basically a single elimination bracket for the winner. The guy playing the final table of undefeated went from playing for winner to 5th place, I think they said he ended up as the lowest 3-1. He was running a bantha list, but I never played him so I don't know for sure what was with it. I also have no idea what second place was playing, it might have been a twins with troopers, Fenn might have been in there (didn't play him either)

Overall I had a good time and it was nice playing people outside of Colorado Springs, the tournament was in Denver. Everyone I met was nice and friendly. I'm a pretty casual player so I just wanted to have some fun playing a few games. Maybe for the more competitive people they could have had an issue with it. I do find it strange that we got Armada coins instead of IA, but I think that is FFG. Not sure how to get the correct coin now. When I got an Armada coin at a store championship I got a card instead which was easy to change out.

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Some of the prize packs were mispacked. We got some incorrect Armada Coins instead of IA coins for Store Champs in Australia. 

The TO/Store owner just kept them and organised with FFG to swap them over. It took a while but I think everyone got the correct prizes in the end.

Your TO shouldn't have handed out incorrect prizes, should have gone to FFG and fixed the issue... Should have been quick and easy since you're only a few states away not on the other side of the world like we are. 

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I attended the Denver Regional last night, in attendance were 12 players with 4 using SC byes.  Advanced Tournament rules would have called for 4 rounds with a cut to Top 8, but the TO decided to use the Basic Tournament structure and did 4 rounds with no cut.  

 

The TO picked a map and we played the "A" mission the first round, then the "B" mission the second, and did the same thing for rounds 3 and 4...it was explained that it was to save time, so we weren't putting together maps.  Added with 50 minute tournament rounds (yes, 50 minutes), it turned out to be an interesting evening.

 

I have no idea what the list was that won, as I didn't play against it, but I ended up 3-1 and in 3rd place using the list I won the Atlanta Regional last week, which is:

 

eSnowtrooper

eStormtrooper x2

rRoyal Guard

rImperial Officer x2

I think part of the problem was that the whole weekend was Star Wars. Imperial Assault started Friday at 6:00PM (maybe a little later). This meant to play 6 or 7 rounds at full time we would have been there until 2AM-3AM with X-Wing starting at 9AM. Armada was Sunday. The TO didn't decide to play basic, he let the players vote on what format they wanted to play, basic or advanced, and I think 7 or 8 picked basic mainly because they were playing x-wing the next day. I would have liked longer games and picking new maps each round rather than using the same one twice after it was decided we were only playing 4 rounds, but I was mainly just happy to be playing.

 

 

People knew the timings before entering the event. If you don't want to play until 2am+ (if you good enough to make the final table) then don't play the event. The TO should of played by the rules pack and not changed it because the players voted to change it. Otherwise, why run it in the 1st place if you are going to make up your own rules and not follow the official rules like everyone else on the planet is playing.

 

You either play by the rules or don't play if you don't like them. It IS that simple.  The TO is at fault here by allowing it to happen.

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The problem now is that I don't really go to the shop up in Denver. I'm wondering if FFG will send one to a player vs sending them to the shop.

 

Last year went really well with 3 rounds swiss and cut to top 4.  No deviation from the FFG plan at all.

 

I wonder what was up.

 

Who was the TO?  I know the staff there fairly well and could ask what was going on with the setup and why they ran it differently from last year.

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If it states in the rules pack that advanced rules should be used for the regionals then I agree that no vote should have happened and it should have been 4 rounds of Swiss followed by a cut to 8. If it doesn't specifically state advanced rules I don't have an issue with what was done. I was prepared for 3AM when I got there, although that may have been optimistic of me.

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The guy playing the final table of undefeated went from playing for winner to 5th place, I think they said he ended up as the lowest 3-1. He was running a bantha list, but I never played him so I don't know for sure what was with it.

 

That was me. Going from the finals to 5th place was kind of a dagger, but my understanding was that it was a product of not having won a store championship -- they count as super-tiebreakers, so that anybody who ended up 3-1 and had had a store championship bye (because we didn't cut to top 4) jumped past me and pushed me out of the cash prizing.  I was pretty surprised by it -- I'm more used to other tournament structures where the finals determine 1st place and 2nd place, but I think that's what happened.

 

That said, even though not cutting to Top 4 as per the rules cost me actual money (and didn't negatively impact anybody else, as far as I can tell), I was happy to get out of there at 11pm instead of midnight.

 

I'm on the fence about the whole "Do a randomly-selected mission, then the other one on that same map" format.  I totally agree that it's not how tournaments are supposed to run according to the rules, but that's tempered by the fact that I personally hate assembling maps. So reducing mission diversity -- but also reducing the tediousness of setup -- is something that I don't get too upset over.

 

My list, FWIW, was:

 

Bantha Rider

HK Assassin Droid

HK Assassin Droid

Elite Tuskan Raider

Gideon Argus

C-3P0

Temporary Alliance

Beast Tamer

Devious Scheme

 

Bantha acting last in round 1 and first in round 2, often with a Jundland Terror in the middle, was absolutely brutal.  In the two games I played against Rebels, Luke got Bantha'd to death on round two and round one.

 

The last round came down to me being greedy on activation timing (trying to save an HK carrying a broken droid, rather than starting with the Bantha) and paying for it: Heavy Stormtroopers and Maximum Firepower combined for 14 (I think) Bantha damage and took him out before he could act, and things went south pretty quickly from that point.

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Regional, Nationals and Worlds (and to some extend Store) Championships would be classed as 'Premier Events'

 

You don't play Basic Structured rules at Premier events. Basic rules would be played at intro games / Seasonal events (Spring etc) Or games down your local club etc.

 

This just 'devalues' the event as a Premier event. imho anyways.

 

Are you supposed to put the rules up beforehand not make them up on the day? Which is what happened in this case.

Edited by TryerImp

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