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Marinealver

Let's Talk About Expansions: (Units)

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Okay it probably is inevitable that this game while it is a good game will no doubt see an expansion from FFG. Not that it is a bad thing I would actually love to see more of rebellion.

 

So there is plenty of design space available in so to start lets go with units.

 

So the units from what I can tell are separated by well build sources so far there is 3 space and 3 ground we have :

  • Infantry
  • Light Vehicle
  • Heavy Mechanical/Fortifications
  • Starfighter/Transport
  • Escort/Carrier
  • Capital Starship

The Challenge I see here is to keep each unit viable so as not to make one unit the obvious choice when building (such as a Tie Interceptor better than TIE Fighter) Well it could work if you limit the number of models say liek only 8 TIE interceptors and then the Imperials will have to go with TIE FIghters.

 

I am not going to search through the old EU or the upcoming Disney movie for more units (FFG can do that instead). So I am sticking with what was seen in episodes 4-6.

 

Infantry

  • Death Star Troopers (qty 8) 1 black 1 red health 1 (Only moves with Death Star): So the black helmet guys you usually see on the death star seem like the best place to go. So they seem better than storm troopers but you could add a rule that they can only deploy to a planet with a death star and can not move unless the death star move also. They could be left on a planet as a dedicated garrison or even have an "event" card that deploys them on Corroscant. So sort of like a Death Star security force while storm troopers and the cannon fodder assault force.
  • E-web Blaster (qty 8) 0 black 1 red health 1(transported): The snowtrooper gun that was being set up to destroy the falcon before a blaster turret hit them. Since Rebels don't have much in the line of vehicles this really is only good going up agaisnt the rebel base which would have plenty of fortifications that need to be destroyed.

Light Vehicles

  • Scout Trooper (qty 12) 2 black 0 red health 1(transported): Cant forget about these guys on Endor. An option to go up against mass rebel troopers while not being easy prey for rebel speeders.

Heavy Mechanical/Fortifications

  • Death Star Shield Projector (qty 2) 0 black 0 red health 3​ (Immobile):  Rather simple, As long as this unit is active the rebels cannot make an attack on the death star. Great counter to the whole "Kill the Death Star" strategy that rebels use. I could add both the rebel shield generator and ion cannon to it. Maybe instead of two fewer red dice it is two fewer black dice.

Starfighter/Transport

  • Tie Interceptor (qty 12) 2 black 0 red health 1(transported): Now the only question is why would you ever take the small TIE Fighter when you could take these puppies. So far I got a couple of solutions. 1 Either limit the number of models to say 8 so that there will always be more TIE Fighters. Another idea was make TIE interceptors come out 2 per production but then TIE Interceptors would become the weaker unit as single 1 is more fragile than 2 TIE Fighters. However more compact transport capability could help out so I guess those two options could work.
  • TIE Bomber (qty 8) 0 black 1 red health 2 (transported): Okay a starfighter to go after Rebel Capital Ships. This sounds like something rather straight forward. Give it an additional health and it is much like the counterpart to the Rebel Y-wings.

Escort/Carrier

  • Imperial Raider (qty 8) 2 black 1 red health 2 (transport cap 0). Okay I remember saying something about not searching the EU but since FFG put out the Gozanit Crusier as a transport Escort hybird I thought why not go with the other ship from X-wing. Basically this sacrifices transport capacity for more anti starfighter firepower. Atleast I didn't add in the gladiator

Captial Starship

For now nothing as the Imperials have the Imperial Star Destroyer and a Super Star Destroyer so what more do they want? Victory Class Star Destroyer? No thanks.

 

Okay well now on to the Rebels. This I think may be a bit harder but feel free to add in your own idea.

 

Infantry

  • Rebel Commando (qty 4) 2 black 1 red health 1 (transported): These rebels that you see on Endor the elite Rebel strike force that act like super troopers. However there is one catch. The rebels will only have 4 of those models. That is it 4, and they don't last longer than rebel troopers. Use them wisely.

Light Vehicles

As I said I wasn't looking into the EU. The best I could come up with is maybe the Twin Pod Cloud car but in Episode 5 they were seen shooting at the Falcon for not having a landing permit. Maybe they don't need another vehicle. Maybe as a tactic card you could add in Close Air Support where a Starfighter can join the battle but treat it's health as red.

 

Heavy Mech/Fortifications

  • Rebel Blaster turret (qty 3) 2 black 1 red health 2 (Immobile) : Remember all those gun encampments at the Rebel Base on Hoth. Why not add them to the game. Not making two different units for the satellite dish and the turret as the stats on this model tend to fit both.

Starfighter/Transport

  • A-wing (qty 6) 2 black 0 red health 1: Okay much like the TIE interceptor a better X-wing. Again limit this to only 4 models since they were not seen until episode 6. Maybe it might be a good idea to give them a research requirement for the rebels. You have to stick with X-wings until you develop these units.
  • B-wing (qty 4) 0 black 2 red health 1: So a Starfighter dedicated to taking out the numerous Imperial capital ships. Will die to TIE Fighters hands down. but still good unit for rebel fleet composition. Might make it 2 health and a rebel research upgrade just like the A-wing. Or have some research that adds 1 red to the X-wing or make the Y-wing +1 health to keep those ships useful in the late game.

Escort/Transport

  • Nebulon-B (qty 3) 0 black 2 red health 3 (Transport cap 1): I was wondering where to stick this either in the escort transport section or in the Capital starship section. However I think it works best as an escort transport. This one is hard to place as the one focused on in the movies was a "medical frigate" even though there are armed versions of it. So give it some good anti capital fire power but leave it vulnerable to starfighters, also lacking the punch and health of an imperial star destroyer.

Capital Starship

Again I didn't know where to put the Nebulon B frigate I almost put it here, but then again why would you want a Nebulon -B when you could get a Mon Calamari Star Cruiser. Unless you ran out of them in which rebels win again.

 

So those are my ideas for new units in the expansion. There are some things are still left out. There is also Lord Vader's TIE which I think would be better as a ring much like the Millennium Falcon. Speaking of that why doesn't Boba Fet have his Slave 1 ship? 

 

So what do you think? Does it favor Rebels or Imperials too much? What would you have put in or left out? I also added in my estimates on the proper quantity of units. Do you think there are too much of 1 unit or not enough of one?

Edited by Marinealver

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I'm more interested in the new hero's that could come with an expansion like...

 

Thrawn, Kyle Katarn /w moldy crow, Mara Jade.

 

By the time the game gets to round 5, the board can be cluttered as it is. If there is an expansion, maybe more planets can be added on... but then were looking at a 5 hour game :X

 

But really, I am hoping if there is an expansion, that it will include characters and vehicles from Rogue One: A star wars story.

Edited by Virtigo

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I'm more interested in the new hero's that could come with an expansion like...

 

Thrawn, Kyle Katarn /w moldy crow, Mara Jade.

 

By the time the game gets to round 5, the board can be cluttered as it is. If there is an expansion, maybe more planets can be added on... but then were looking at a 5 hour game :X

 

But really, I am hoping if there is an expansion, that it will include characters and vehicles from Rogue One: A star wars story.

Heroes/Commanders will be on another post. We can't have a Star Wars Game without Jabba (even though Jabba has been excluded from Empire at War and is not in any of FFG Miniature's game). But yeah next topic will be heroes and perhaps hero rings maybe? Boba Fet needs his Slave 1.

 

 

I have said this in other threads about expansions. IF, (big if), there is on, it will either be more cards or another faction, (ie Scum and Villainy).  

Many people will agree that the rules were written to allow for expansions. Also being an FFG Board Game you can count on it. As for a 3rd faction I don't think there will be one but there may be a 3rd division for each side to make it up to a 6 player game (3 vs 3). So you have the Admiral (Space Battles) General (Ground Battles) and Rouge (Jabba and Lando oh wait Lando is already in the game). But as people are calling this a successor to Twilight Imperium it will have more plastic pieces as well.

 

For this thread I want to talk about units only.  Heroes, Missions, Planet Locations, and others aspects could go on another thread.

Edited by Marinealver

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I could see the TIE Bomber just being an Imperial Y-wing, identical to the TIEln except the Red die instead of Black die for attack. I could even see the Interdector Star Destroyer costing the same as the ISD, with less health and firepower and transport, but preventing retreats as long as it's in a system. And, I would love to see scout troopers, same as a Somtrooper, but with a red health possibly., But, I really don't see the TIE interceptor or A or B-wing being a thing, because it's always being done as more attack die for the same cost as the standard fighter. Maybe, I could see like the SSD, here you need some kind of Research/Mission to unlock them, but I just can't see anyone ever taking an X or Y-wing, when a better fighter cost the exact same amount. Just limiting the number available only insures the X and Y won't be bought until after the max is reached, and then will always be the first casualties chosen.

It's funny, but unit wise, I basically can only see Imperials having an easy unit to add, that doesn't overly complicate things. Possibly a NebB Frigate, one single Frigate, that's a slight upgrade to the Corvette.

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I could see the TIE Bomber just being an Imperial Y-wing, identical to the TIEln except the Red die instead of Black die for attack. I could even see the Interdector Star Destroyer costing the same as the ISD, with less health and firepower and transport, but preventing retreats as long as it's in a system. And, I would love to see scout troopers, same as a Somtrooper, but with a red health possibly., But, I really don't see the TIE interceptor or A or B-wing being a thing, because it's always being done as more attack die for the same cost as the standard fighter. Maybe, I could see like the SSD, here you need some kind of Research/Mission to unlock them, but I just can't see anyone ever taking an X or Y-wing, when a better fighter cost the exact same amount. Just limiting the number available only insures the X and Y won't be bought until after the max is reached, and then will always be the first casualties chosen.

It's funny, but unit wise, I basically can only see Imperials having an easy unit to add, that doesn't overly complicate things. Possibly a NebB Frigate, one single Frigate, that's a slight upgrade to the Corvette.

 

True it is hard to see more units that do the same but better. That is why I am considering research to either lock units behind some sort of tech tree or make current units not the same but better than their basic form. At least for Starfighters. Some tech ideas for starfighters are

  • (First the lock for B-wings and A-wings, and Maybe TIE Interceptors)
  • Upgrade that Makes TIE Fighters come out 2 per Blue Triangle
  • Upgrade that gives X-wings a red die
  • Upgrade that gives Y-wing +1 health (so 2 black)

The Nebulon-B was a little easier to make a side grade simply dropping 2 things to gain 2 things. In this case sacrificing black dice an transport capacity to gain red dice and a health. Having only 1 model seems rather restrictive but I can imagine at least 2 models. As for scout troopers the bikes make them a perfect light vehicle but since they are in an open vehicle I can't see giving them red health. Give them more black attack dice is great.

 

As for infantry I could see like a rebel special forces but only 2-4 models so making them is hard. I could also see a dedicated Death Star Guard and Imperial shield generator if Imperials want to turtle up their Death Star bases from the rebels.

Edited by Marinealver

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My Scout Bike idea, was simply based on making them identical but different from the Stormtrooper, so as not to unbalance them. I figured keeping the Black die, since they would seem most effective strafing enemy troopers, but not quite blowing up tanks. As for the Red health, I just figured it reflected them zipping around, being more difficult for troopers to easily hit (thus requiring the Explosion instead of a simple hit), more than the Bike being better armored than a standard trooper.

NebB's could be more than a single model, obviously you wouldn't do just a single model if you're FFG, that was more of a joke. I would also see that as another Mission unlock type unit, representing the Alliance stealing them from the Empire, and thus allowing them to get better numbers than the Corvette, like the SSD versus ISD, while not being too unbalanced. So, adding a health and a Black die, while maybe losing a single transport capacity. So, it's better, but not a lot better, and still requires you to work for it. Which, I guess is what the B and A-wings would be like.

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My Scout Bike idea, was simply based on making them identical but different from the Stormtrooper, so as not to unbalance them. I figured keeping the Black die, since they would seem most effective strafing enemy troopers, but not quite blowing up tanks. As for the Red health, I just figured it reflected them zipping around, being more difficult for troopers to easily hit (thus requiring the Explosion instead of a simple hit), more than the Bike being better armored than a standard trooper.

NebB's could be more than a single model, obviously you wouldn't do just a single model if you're FFG, that was more of a joke. I would also see that as another Mission unlock type unit, representing the Alliance stealing them from the Empire, and thus allowing them to get better numbers than the Corvette, like the SSD versus ISD, while not being too unbalanced. So, adding a health and a Black die, while maybe losing a single transport capacity. So, it's better, but not a lot better, and still requires you to work for it. Which, I guess is what the B and A-wings would be like.

 

Well I saw a lot of missions where Rebel commanders all of a sudden show up in an Imperial System with instant units (not from the board system, base, or build que). So yeah I can see a mission from an Imperial System with a Blue circle where the Rebels gain a Nebulon-B immediately, but I am saving mission ideas for another thread. But again I wanted the Nebulon-B to be sort of a line ship but weaker than the Star Destroyer as the extra black dice can still hit the Nebulon B. As for why you would chose the corvette over the Nebulon-B would be for the black dice also with the model restriction you could run out of Nebulon-B models and still have blue circles.

 

Another idea that came to mind is to lock TIE Interceptors, B-wings and A-wing until rebels draw a lvl 2 or 3 objective. So that they don't come out until the late game.

Edited by Marinealver

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I think there is a ZERO % chance of new Rebel and Imperial miniatures. The game is balanced. A new mission and objectives pack may be possible. 2 new factions (smugglers for rebels and bounty hunters for the empire) would be a nice way to make this an actual four player game though.

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I kind of hope they leave the game as is. It's elegant and balanced (except for the 3-4 player rules, which feel like they were thrown in at the last minute). I do agree with Stone37 that if there is an expansion, it might be nice to see the 3-4 rules smoothed out.

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Since this game reminds me so much of Twilight Imperium, I would not be surprised that when future expansions come out, they will include 2-3 new units each, just like TI3's expansions did. I'd like the Rebels to get Nebulon-B Cruisers, A-Wings, and B-Wings. I can see the Nebs coming with some kind of repair or medical ship ability that can block a certain amount of damage by itself. the A-Wing Interceptor can roll 2 black dice, and the B-Wing could roll 2 red dice. The Imperials could get Tie Interceptors, Tie Bombers (which would work exactly like A-Wings and B-Wings) and an Interdictor Cruiser, which if I were designing it would reduce the total amount of incoming red damage by 1 (basically baby version of the Ion Cannon), and if the Rebel player declares a retreat, roll a die, the retreat succeeds if I roll blank.

 

I'm not to sure about ground units though. Maybe for rebels in keeping with their theme for structures, maybe that radar dish gun they used in Hoth. I really don't know what ground unit the Empire needs. Probably something that provides a nifty ability, as they already have sheer dice rolling units.

 

I'd love to see a big box expansion that introduces the Scum and Villainy "faction." This expansion would allow for a 3rd player and totally rewrite the rules for multiplayer (which aren't that great IMO). I can see the S&V faction's win condition being achieved by winning a certain number of credits either through missions or by manipulating the Rebels and Imperials into fighting each other or by completing "contracts" for both sides. Instead of mission cards, the Scum get Contract cards, but the Contracts are played by the Rebels and Imperial players, If successful, the Faction that played the card gets some kind of short term benefit, but the Scum player gets a permanent buff or one step closer to the game win. That way each faction has to be careful when hiring out the services of Jabba, Prince Xixor, or the Bounty Hunter's Guild ;)

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Or something I've thought. Star Wars Rebels is pre-ANH. Rogue One is pre-ANH. They could potentially release an alternate version making use of heroes and units from Rebels and Rogue One vs villains from the same.

Inquisitors and death troopers, anyone?

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What you're calling Death Star Troopers are just Imperial Gunners. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_gunner

 

They're no more exciting than Stormtroopers - in fact they're likely worse in combat, since they're Imperial Navy soldiers whose primary task is the firing of weapons like Turbolasers.

At first I called them Navy Troopers as was seen from the old Decipher game.

518lERrpf6L._SY300_QL70_.jpg

However I figured that would be too confusing and just called them Death Star troopers as they were supposed to be like a Death Star defending force and to help against speeder raids and to balance out against Rebel Commandos.

image.jpg

As you said often their primary function is to fire Turbolasers which was why I gave them a red dice also. A defensive garrison protecting the shield projector protecting the deathstar.

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Or something I've thought. Star Wars Rebels is pre-ANH. Rogue One is pre-ANH. They could potentially release an alternate version making use of heroes and units from Rebels and Rogue One vs villains from the same.

Inquisitors and death troopers, anyone?

 

That is an interesting thought.  Same game, different cards and heroes, (different minis as well I guess).  Ok, not the same game I guess.  Same board tho.

 

Yay me, I ALMOST salvaged my pride there.

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I have said this in other threads about expansions. IF, (big if), there is on, it will either be more cards or another faction, (ie Scum and Villainy).  

Many people will agree that the rules were written to allow for expansions. Also being an FFG Board Game you can count on it. 

 

Actually, I am going to have to disagree.  They did NOT design this game with expansions in mind.  Look at the product codes.  Xwing starts with SWX01, Armada is SWM01, IA is SWI01, Rebellion is SW03.  See a pattern?

 

Edited for clarity

Edited by Hersh

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The game is pretty perfect as is. With only 3 stats for units, I'm not sure they can really add more units and make them distinct enough anyhow...

 

I'd rather have more Objective, Mission and action cards, along with more leaders - ahead of new minis. It bothers me slightly that each game uses the exact same 15 objective cards and the exact same mission deck.

 

Even if we had 10 objective cards for I, II and III respectively and used half of them each game - that would make the objective deck way more random. 

Edited by jonboyjon1990

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Seems silly to give the Rebel player more units to choose from when they barely get to make any outside of missions in the first place.

 

The only expansions I can see for this are card based ones. So more heroes/missions/etc.  Perhaps a role reversal that takes place during the Thrawn Trilogy where the Rebels are the ones hunting down the Empire.

 

A 3rd faction would make this game into Small World and get way too cluttered and more planets would make Rebel victory much easier and the game board is already huge.

Edited by patrickmahan

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I could see an expansion with new leaders and their action/mission cards.  Anything else messes up the balance of the game.  It may sound cool, but it would really mess up the game.

 

The Empire has no difficulty fielding a huge navy.  I had a game this weekend where the Imp player ran out of all space units.  Giving them more, gives them way more power.  Giving them something (like an interdictor) gives them an unfair advantage and takes away the Rebel's hit and run tactics.  Giving them a Tie-Bomber just gives them more flexibility to wipe out the Rebels.  A DS shield gives them a way to basically protect end game objective points, which would tip the balance.  The DS is a double edge sword for the Imps.  Powerful offensive unit, but vulnerable to fighters and could give up objective points.

Ground units are the Empire's weakness only in numbers.  It's not hard to run out of AT-STs and AT-ATs, but it's hard to drum up enough troopers to garrison your systems.  Giving more options (and ultimately more units) to the Imps again only increases their power and flexibility in the game giving the Rebels little to no chance to counter them.

 

The Rebels on the other hand typically have trouble fielding any noticeable military presence.  Giving them more options is almost pointless as they don't get to field much and are constantly on the run.

 

Beyond all that, the units, their health, and their attack stats all create rock/paper/scissor options.  Most of the suggested options here are just removing those noted characteristics of the units.  The rebels currently fear the AT-STs and AT-ATs as they are hard to shut down.  This gives the military edge to the Imps.  Giving the rebels a lot of red damage ground units means suddenly those units are far less impressive as they are more vulnerable.

 

A third faction completely throws balance out the window, just as a board expansion would.  Both would upset the delicate balance that is currently part of the game.

 

Anyone that has played deck building card games that allow variable deck sizes knows how important deck size is.  Add 10 more utility cards and suddenly your great cards that are the center of your strategy are that much more rare to draw.  So even mission card, and action cards would need to be subtle as to not throw off the balance of the game.  The rebels for instance depend on the secret force cards (hidden fleets, inciting rebellion, etc).  Add a bunch of mission cards for new leaders and suddenly the rebels have to wait longer to pull these cards, making it harder to complete objectives.

 

As much as I love good expansions, and expandable games (I have a huge collection of X-wing, Rebellion, and IA), this game is a perfectly contained boardgame, and wins points for being such.  Tossing needless expansion at it to just muddy the waters (when the game wasn't designed for expansions), would be a bad thing, and could possibly turn people off from the game to begin with.

 

Again, I believe the only way that you could expand this game without hurting the balance would be leaders and their action/mission cards.  But so far this game is OT canon only.  No EU, no legends.  This limits your selection of leaders to a pretty small group.  At best, I think you could maybe pull 6 more leaders from either side before really scraping the bottom of the barrel. 

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Again, I believe the only way that you could expand this game without hurting the balance would be leaders and their action/mission cards.  But so far this game is OT canon only.  No EU, no legends.  This limits your selection of leaders to a pretty small group.  At best, I think you could maybe pull 6 more leaders from either side before really scraping the bottom of the barrel. 

 

Soontir Fel is OT?

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No. He's not. Baron Fel came from Mike Stackpole's excellent X-wing novels. But the Empire was already scraping the barrel for leaders when FFG decided to add Wullf Yalaren (previously known as The One Wearing The White Suit). I don't think he ever even rated an action figure. Even Bo Shek got an action figure.

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Seems silly to give the Rebel player more units to choose from when they barely get to make any outside of missions in the first place.

 

The only expansions I can see for this are card based ones. So more heroes/missions/etc.  Perhaps a role reversal that takes place during the Thrawn Trilogy where the Rebels are the ones hunting down the Empire.

 

A 3rd faction would make this game into Small World and get way too cluttered and more planets would make Rebel victory much easier and the game board is already huge.

 

Actually I gave the imperials more units. The rebels just get a more variety but that was already from the original game (both have 6 different units in the thread). If the numbers I given were in the new expansion the Imperials would get an additional 56 models, while the rebels only get 20 more models. This would give the Imperials 145 units compared to the rebels 84 units.

 

I am not exactly sure why people insist on a cardboard and card only expansion? This isn't anything like Elder Sign, and there are units besides TIE-Interceptors and B-wings that were excluded from the basic game that could easily fit the balance (such as the TIE bomber and nebulon-B). This game is closer to Twilight Imperium. Now sure the 1st expansion only added players and the models were just 2 different color sets of those you could find in the game. However the 3rd expansion did come up with new units. Since I don't really see a way of adding more players to the game it makes sense that more units could be added and it won't upset the so called delicate balance.

 

But yeah 3rd faction is out. Maybe a 3rd subfaction for each side making the multiplayer game move from a 4 player (2v2) to a 6 player (3v3) game but as with the current team game the task which could be handled by a single player are pretty well divided out. (I'm not a big fan of the team game set up).

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Seems silly to give the Rebel player more units to choose from when they barely get to make any outside of missions in the first place.

 

The only expansions I can see for this are card based ones. So more heroes/missions/etc.  Perhaps a role reversal that takes place during the Thrawn Trilogy where the Rebels are the ones hunting down the Empire.

 

A 3rd faction would make this game into Small World and get way too cluttered and more planets would make Rebel victory much easier and the game board is already huge.

 

Actually I gave the imperials more units. The rebels just get a more variety but that was already from the original game (both have 6 different units in the thread). If the numbers I given were in the new expansion the Imperials would get an additional 56 models, while the rebels only get 20 more models. This would give the Imperials 145 units compared to the rebels 84 units.

 

I am not exactly sure why people insist on a cardboard and card only expansion? This isn't anything like Elder Sign, and there are units besides TIE-Interceptors and B-wings that were excluded from the basic game that could easily fit the balance (such as the TIE bomber and nebulon-B). This game is closer to Twilight Imperium. Now sure the 1st expansion only added players and the models were just 2 different color sets of those you could find in the game. However the 3rd expansion did come up with new units. Since I don't really see a way of adding more players to the game it makes sense that more units could be added and it won't upset the so called delicate balance.

 

But yeah 3rd faction is out. Maybe a 3rd subfaction for each side making the multiplayer game move from a 4 player (2v2) to a 6 player (3v3) game but as with the current team game the task which could be handled by a single player are pretty well divided out. (I'm not a big fan of the team game set up).

 

 

You misread. I wasn't saying you gave the rebels more units than imperials, I said you gave the rebels more units. They already can barely field a military unless the Empire lets them. Also, how many units do the players need? The game only lasts 14 turns max by default. Half of which are turns where you can actually manufacture units.

 

The units are already overly simplified. To the point that adding new ones just breaks things. If the units/resources were more complicated then you could squeeze new units in no problem. But you yourself said how hard it was to make choices that actually matter instead of just "____ is always better than ____"

 

Adding another player to each team would just complicate things and doesn't solve anything with the team set up. You'd just have 1 player doing everything per faction still like it is now.

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