ion cannons + shield generators "each combat step?

[MrBody 10]

The term "step". Both say they do something "each combat step". This isn't explicitly defined anywhere. The rulebook says "follow these steps" and lists everything from comitting leaders to drawing tactics cards to rolling dice. It would make the most sense for a "step" to be one round of combat (rolling + playing cards + damage) but this is not spelled out.

[Jobu 720]

RR Pg 04

 

"3.  Combat Round: Players resolve a combat round in which each unit performs one attack. To resolve a combat round, follow these steps:"

 

Its the Space Battle, Ground Battle, Retreat, Next Round portion of the rules.  The Shield generator says "each ground battle step" and the Ion cannon says "each space battle step"

 

I do agree that they use the term step in a lot of places, but contextually this is what they mean.

 

Plus this is the only part of the game in which you would draw a ground tactics card or your opponent would roll red dice during a space battle.

[MrBody 10]

I'm assuming you can't stack multiple ion cannons or shield generators on one planet? I don't see any printed rule against it, but I imagine it would make the rebel base invincible.

[coastcityo 324]

I'm assuming you can't stack multiple ion cannons or shield generators on one planet? I don't see any printed rule against it, but I imagine it would make the rebel base invincible.

I don't have my rules in front of me, so I'll need a little backup or contradiction here, but I do remember reading something about them being stackable. It didn't actually say "cumulative" anywhere, but I remember reading it. That being said, they're subject to limitation based on available miniatures, and are immobile to boot. So, you could stack three of each on the Rebel Base, assuming you had enough time to build all six of them, but they would remain behind if you move the Base after it has been revealed.

[MrBody 10]

That seems odd. The rebel base would seem almost invincible then.

 

What would happen if you got into a situation where neither side could kill the other? Space battle with Death Star vs rebel transports and 2 or more ion cannons. Unless you could end it with tactics cards, neither side would ever get any dice. What then?

[Hersh 144]

 

I'm assuming you can't stack multiple ion cannons or shield generators on one planet? I don't see any printed rule against it, but I imagine it would make the rebel base invincible.

I don't have my rules in front of me, so I'll need a little backup or contradiction here, but I do remember reading something about them being stackable. It didn't actually say "cumulative" anywhere, but I remember reading it. That being said, they're subject to limitation based on available miniatures, and are immobile to boot. So, you could stack three of each on the Rebel Base, assuming you had enough time to build all six of them, but they would remain behind if you move the Base after it has been revealed.

 

It does state in teh rules you can voluntarily destroy miniatures to put them back into your "supply".  So, yes, you would leave them behind, but, only temporarily.

 

That seems odd. The rebel base would seem almost invincible then.

 

What would happen if you got into a situation where neither side could kill the other? Space battle with Death Star vs rebel transports and 2 or more ion cannons. Unless you could end it with tactics cards, neither side would ever get any dice. What then?

If the only space troops you have left are transports, they MUST retreat.  So, that specific scenario is resolved.  I am sure we could find something else tho.

 

Give me a moment and I will find ref for both.

 

For destroying units, Rules Ref page 6, component limitations and for Transports in combat Rules Ref Page 5, point 5, 3rd bullet

 

edited to provide refs

Edited April 15, 2016 by Hersh

[Stone37 3,353]

That seems odd. The rebel base would seem almost invincible then.

 

What would happen if you got into a situation where neither side could kill the other? Space battle with Death Star vs rebel transports and 2 or more ion cannons. Unless you could end it with tactics cards, neither side would ever get any dice. What then?

There are only a limited number of Ion Cannons and Shield Generators (and a limited number of planets that can build them.)  It makes taking the base harder sure... but not impossible.  The Death Star is one solution to avoid a long drawn out ground battle.  Another solution for the Empire is to enlist the help of a few leaders to start with a fist full of battle cards.

[Jobu 720]

That seems odd. The rebel base would seem almost invincible then.

 

What would happen if you got into a situation where neither side could kill the other? Space battle with Death Star vs rebel transports and 2 or more ion cannons. Unless you could end it with tactics cards, neither side would ever get any dice. What then?

 

Its not that bad, the Imperials just need to bring more troops, which they generally have.  Those structures are really the only advantage that the Rebels have over the Imperials units wise.  Imperials can get AT-ATs for the same build icon and those things are terrifying.

 

I once assaulted a Rebel base with 2 Ions and a Shield Generator.  It knocked down my red firepower from 7 to 3 and my opponent drew 2 extra ground combat cards.  I still won.

[Hersh 144]

Also remembering, you can assign damage to shield gens and ion cannons in ground combat

[kmanweiss 1,502]

Buildings and effects can stack.  3 shield gens and 3 ion cannons can be in the same system and have cumulative effects.

 

So 3 ion cannons would reduce the red attack dice of Imperial ships by 6....but that is before you apply the cap.  So if you have 10 red dice worth of ships, you still get to roll 4 red dice.  They don't affect black dice though, so you can still fight even if your reds are tied up.

 

If the imps have a single ground unit (or more), and the rebels have nothing but buildings, the rebel buildings are automatically destroyed.  So winning the ground war would suddenly free up the Imp ships to win the space war also.

 

If you have a lock down situation (rebel ships in a system with 2 ion cannons vs death star only) the rebels are forced to retreat as the DS cannot.  If they have no leader to lead the retreat, the rebel space forces are destroyed.

[Mitrokhin 40]

Agreeing with kmanweiss, Rules Reference page 13, Structures, states

"There can be multiple structures of any type(s) in the same system, and each structure provides its benefit."

 

[MrBody 10]

Thanks for the answers.

I'll just ask this here instead of starting a new thread: the rules for teams. It says all discussions must be open and in front of the other team, but that you can whisper to your teammate. Soooooo essentially private discussions ARE allowed then?

[Hersh 144]

Yep.  You just can't leave the room.  I think it even says you can talk in code.  However, do you trust your whispering skills to NOT give away the location of the Rebel base?

 

edit for spelling

Edited April 15, 2016 by Hersh

[henrypootle 5]

And there's General Veers' action card "Destroy 1 structure of your choice in this system" too...

[CNYGamer 31]

Another solution for the Empire is to enlist the help of a few leaders to start with a fist full of battle cards.

 

If you are referring to tactic cards, no matter how many leaders you have a system when combat starts, you can only draw a number of space and/or ground tactic cards equal to the highest respective value of your assembled leaders.

[kmanweiss 1,502]

That seems odd. The rebel base would seem almost invincible then.

Like many things in the game, it's a double edged sword.

Yes, 3 ion cannons on the base would be pretty effective.  Shutting down 6 red dice means the Imps have to bring a lot of firepower.  3 shield generators would provide a lot of ongoing tactic cards to the defender also.

 

Keep in mind though that you are talking about 6 units though.  The Imps have a card to get extra probe droids for every 4 units you have in the rebel base.  Stick an x-wing and a rebel trooper there and the Imps pull 2 extra probed a turn...that adds up fast.  You have missions that let you make unexpected attacks and moves with units from your base, so you really need to have some forces there to use that mission...now you might be giving the Imps 3 extra probes on some turns.

 

If you are forced to move your base, those buildings all stay behind on that system.  With a limit of 3, you can't build anymore now unless the Imps waste a lot of time and effort to destroy them just so you can rebuild them.

[myrm 3]

the rules for teams. It says all discussions must be open and in front of the other team, but that you can whisper to your teammate. Soooooo essentially private discussions ARE allowed then?

Yeah, this unfortunately is in practical terms a direct contradiction in the rulebook - it requires open communication but then permits coded and hidden (whispered) non-open communication.

[keggboy777 0]

We had this issue in a game we played last night.

 

We had the rebel base and it had 2 ion cannons.

 

I had a total of 7 red dice and 5 black for space battle.

 

Since you can only have a max of 5 dice per color, the ion cannons reduced my red dice pool down to 1.

 

5 minus 4 = 1. 

[stuuk 48]

Have to agree on the 'stacking is a bit daft' ; it makes the rebel base very, very tough to take such that a determined imperial assault vs 2 x shield generators can fail. I would have much preferred no stacking of static defences.

 

I'm sure that they tested it to death though, so it's probably more a case of needing to take more troops with you everywhere you go as the Imperial (and thus not garrisoning captured worlds)

[doctormungmung 49]

We had this issue in a game we played last night.

 

We had the rebel base and it had 2 ion cannons.

 

I had a total of 7 red dice and 5 black for space battle.

 

Since you can only have a max of 5 dice per color, the ion cannons reduced my red dice pool down to 1.

 

5 minus 4 = 1. 

 

Dice limits are applied after all modifiers to dice happen, so in your example, you should have been rolling 3 red dice (7-4, which is under the cap of 5).

Edited April 22, 2016 by doctormungmung