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Lochmacher

A bit on the lite side...

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Well,

I knew that as an employee at a gaming store, I get a discount and am therefore encouraged to try out new products, and someone had to pick up this line.

So, I doled out the cash (~76 dollars US, with discount) and here's what I received:

-Four books that are, honestly, a main rulebook split into four parts.  About 35$ worth, -IF- it were hardbound.  All are colour and concise, but feel like board game manuals, lacking the story and texture of their larger brethren (see 2nd Ed equivalents).

-30 dice with symbols and good relief (deep enough set to withstand play).  Quality.

-Bunch o' cards, regular and half-size. A bit thin, but varied enough.  The item cards seem a bit limited, but we'll see where they take it.

-Character sheets.  They reminded me of my old HeroQuest booklet of sheets, but with colour and double-sided.  Seems a bit lite on the details...

-Trackers and tokens.  Not enough bags for all this crap.  I still have to ask: "Why are these here?".   Fatigue tokens?  Status bars?  We'll see how they work out.

-Character stand-ups.  No repeats!  That's a good thing if they're just for characters, but there is -A- skeleton and -A- goblin.  Never heard of a single goblin attacking by himself...  Still, they are of Arkham quality and there are quite a few of them at that.

-The Box.  A little flimsy and includes a worthless partition.  Think Battlestar.  Yeah, one of those canyon ones.  Would really have benefited from having more compartments.  I just turned it upside down and more than doubled the space.  Sad, really.  The cover for the box is decent, but will show wear upon arrival.

Overall, it just doesn't feel worth the asking price.  You end up with fewer components than a 60$ board game has and it is absurdly light on the background and setting information.  Comparing this to the previous version isn't worth the time if the quality of the books is any indication.  HOWEVER, I will give it an honest try and see how it plays in the next month.  I'm aware that you must consider any work with the author's intent in mind and that my own expectations and biases must be kept in mind as well.  My next posting will be more objective and in line with a proper review of the GAMEPLAY, leaving components to this review.

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While its true that the box is over half empty, you do get very good quality components (Some very clever use of space as well, like the Stance Rings centre being the Initiative Hourglass). Personally I could have lived with quantity over quality, but that is by the by.

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Four books that are, honestly, a main rulebook split into four parts.

Yes

About 35$ worth, -IF- it were hardbound.

Hardly. My v2 hardcover cost $39.99 retail, and the 4 books from 3e are twice as thick as the v2 book in total.

All are colour and concise, but feel like board game manuals

Wow, what kind of board game manuals are you used to? I posted some links to pics I took of the 3e books. They are thicker and sturdier (even the paper) than any of the FFG board game manuals. They aren't hardcover, but they are similar to say the Warhammer Companion book from v1 in weight.

...lacking the story and texture of their larger brethren (see 2nd Ed equivalents).

I think there's more detail and background stuff in the 3e books than in the v2 book. A little less about the empire, I think, but more about the various religions and colleges of magic.

Trackers and tokens. Not enough bags for all this crap. I still have to ask: "Why are these here?". Fatigue tokens? Status bars?

Used to help easily track things without needing to write stuff down. Once you've read the rules and tried a game, it'll all makes sense.

-Character stand-ups. No repeats! That's a good thing if they're just for characters, but there is -A- skeleton and -A- goblin. Never heard of a single goblin attacking by himself... Still, they are of Arkham quality and there are quite a few of them at that.

Yes, I was a bit surprised there was only 1 standup per enemy for monsters.

The Box. A little flimsy and includes a worthless partition.

Yes, I removed the and had a lot more room to store everything.

Overall, it just doesn't feel worth the asking price. You end up with fewer components than a 60$ board game has and it is absurdly light on the background and setting information.

It's an RPG with a lot of token to track things. I'd actualyl say, except for the fact that there is no board, there are as many if not more components than a board game if you include the cards and standups.  Consider the "RPG" portion (books) has a value of $40 or so, then all the tokens, cards, and dice easily value $60. Heck, the dice alone are worth $20-$30. Then you've got about 300 cards, plus dozens of tokens and stand-ups. So, in actuality, what you get (physically) really is worth the $100.

I look forward to hearing about your play experience!

 

 

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Remember that the standups aren't figure replacements, they are there to represent that there i an enemy, you place a location card and then on that the hero's present at that location and then use the monster standups to show what type of critters they have run into.

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I'm still wading through it at the moment but I would agree with you assessment of the four soft back rulebooks.  They are quite slim and pricing wise WFRP does not compare favourably to D&D 4th edition.  The box is made from paper mache, however the card components seem to be of very good quality.

This is all slightly irrelevant as all that really matters is how it plays and for that I am going to have to wait a while, my group is still playing and loving Dark Heresy.

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I paid £65 and I know that the price cannot be justified by just the components in the box. I am quite sure that the plastic and paper in the box does not come out to more than £15 (generous).

However, I have no problem in handing over my money for this game because of what you are getting:

  • Great art work - a bunch of artist must of spent a long time producing art for the books and the action cards. They get a salary or commission on the work
  • Great design - WFRG has a unique system for resolving checks. Instead of cloning a existing rpg, FF came up with original mechanism. Another set of people using their brains to give you a new experience; they get paid as well.
  • Inhouse Play testers - I cannot justify why these people get paid; I would do it for free happy.gif But the more a game is tested the better it usually is
  • Games Workshop - they want their cut and to be honest this game would be harder to sell if it was not set in a known setting

I agree that the background is not comprehesive but you can fill a small library with Warhammer background so a line needs drawn

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I don't really do many forums.
However having played WFRP since its release back 1986, I remember the absolute delight in picking it up in Edinburgh that summer.
The career system was a revelation to my 13 year old brain and this kept me going back for more right through 2nd edition and I eagerly awaited 3rd edition to reach blighty.


So it arrived on Wednesday of this week and I took my time opening the box.
Okay nice box, lovely gatefold with noisy Velcro,
Inside 4 books and then 3 sheets of cut outs ...interesting.
Under that a small flyer indicating replacement dice red and green or are they extra?
I was looking at all the small cards and thinking mnnnn...those could get everywhere
Then under the cardboard partition I found then careers and for some reason I was expecting both these and the Character sheets to be bigger
Having spent a few days going over the product I can say that I am a little underwhelmed by the whole box.


Whoa don’t get me wrong I love the whole dice concept and the careers look more interesting than some of the 2nd edition ones but it seemed that some marketing guy was quite creative Character holders cool, nah there just little cardboard boxes you can stuff everything in.
Basic action cards really only cover combat, no basic action cards for say stealth or education I mean these skills have basic use right so why not load some cards with some pre set results for those getting used to the new system......well that is everyone except the design team.
I found the books to be particularly light and seemed to require the use of the components to explain everything , a lot of cards are not repeated in the rule books so you need the card to be able to play....no option to just use the rule books then.


Now I rate this as my favourite game still as it new, its current and its alive ...pause for another wfrp edition remembrance minute....
I think that this could be a great game but the BIG BOX just needs a wee bit more oomph to hit the mark maybe it will be better when some supplements get out.


In summary
Presentation - Brilliant
Content - good overall but some areas seem initially low on options
Rules - innovative and potentially fun
Price - not bad considering all the above
Overall - a good start but just not the huge buzz I was expecting
 

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I haven't played yet as i am still looking through the rules, but can you really get 3 heroes/PC's to Rank 5 with these components?  Looking through the cards there are only a few Rank 2 cards.  So we won't know for awhile yet but i highly doubt this will support anythign past rank 2...also rank 2 looks lite.

If you compare that to DnD 4e it supported characters up to level 30 (or Rank 5 equiv.).

So while the components i am happy with and the overall quality and heck i like the card system and new dice pool stuff...i just think they are giving us a 'tease' of the game.  I wouldn't classify this as a CORE set but more a STARTER set.  I can easily see us having to spend 1000 bucks total before we get the REAL CORE set.

These are obviously my assumptions only and haven't fully tested the system out.  Heck they only give us 2 schools of magic not all the winds or whatever...from what it looks like.  They are going to milk this thing for all its worth.

But as a STARTER set it is OK.

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PeeKay777 said:

I paid £65 and I know that the price cannot be justified by just the components in the box. I am quite sure that the plastic and paper in the box does not come out to more than £15 (generous).

However, I have no problem in handing over my money for this game because of what you are getting:

  • Great art work - a bunch of artist must of spent a long time producing art for the books and the action cards. They get a salary or commission on the work
  • Great design - WFRG has a unique system for resolving checks. Instead of cloning a existing rpg, FF came up with original mechanism. Another set of people using their brains to give you a new experience; they get paid as well.
  • Inhouse Play testers - I cannot justify why these people get paid; I would do it for free happy.gif But the more a game is tested the better it usually is
  • Games Workshop - they want their cut and to be honest this game would be harder to sell if it was not set in a known setting

I agree that the background is not comprehesive but you can fill a small library with Warhammer background so a line needs drawn

You saved me some typing, PeeKay777!

I just picked up a second box 'cause, frankly, I've got more money than sense. I got to play in the demo and I very much enjoy the mechanics of the new game. In fact, it gives me a reason to play in the Old World again. I've liked the setting since I started playing 1e in the late 80s but the 1e/2e system (aside from the career approach to classes) doesn't really offer anything other than bog standard task resolution. I *love* the new dice and the data you can mine from a single roll, and I love how you can reward good ideas and roleplay instantly, with a bonus (or penalty) die. The cards are nifty for instant rules access and carry with them (especially the career cards) a lot of setting info that isn't immediately obvious by looking at the books.

I realize, however, the cost is a barrier to entry for a lot of people. Since I usually run games for my group, I came to terms with the idea of shelling out for this and I don't begrudge FFG a cent. The production values are through the roof. I value the high quality art and the obvioous care that has gone into the mechanics. I do hope that they come out with a hardback at some point as a system reference, but I'm content to roll with it the way it's currently packaged. There's a lot of innovation packed into that "flimsy" box.

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Nostromo said:

I haven't played yet as i am still looking through the rules, but can you really get 3 heroes/PC's to Rank 5 with these components?  Looking through the cards there are only a few Rank 2 cards.  So we won't know for awhile yet but i highly doubt this will support anythign past rank 2...also rank 2 looks lite.

You don't need to go from basic straight to advanced (nor are you really supposed to in this edition, IMO). Once you finish Rank 1 as a soldier you might go to mercenary for rank 2, bailiff for rank 3 etc.

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macd21 said:

Nostromo said:

 

I haven't played yet as i am still looking through the rules, but can you really get 3 heroes/PC's to Rank 5 with these components?  Looking through the cards there are only a few Rank 2 cards.  So we won't know for awhile yet but i highly doubt this will support anything past rank 2...also rank 2 looks lite.

 

 

You don't need to go from basic straight to advanced (nor are you really supposed to in this edition, IMO). Once you finish Rank 1 as a soldier you might go to mercenary for rank 2, bailiff for rank 3 etc.

He wasn't talking about advanced, there's plenty of support for that.  He's talking about Ranks.  Past rank 2 there is no content.  You can keep buying rank 1 and 2 stuff, but there isn't anything past that. 

I, for one, am really eager to try out running the game this weekend and spend the last two days worth of downtime at work reading the books cover to cover. 
I dig it.
But I have a few criticisms.  FFG should have taken a queue from 4e and really called out and separated the rules.  It makes 4e easy to play, and I hate have to read through a wall of text to get to an important rule.  Maybe I'm spoiled now, but it makes it easier to get people into the game. 
Also, at least a list of the available talents and actions would have been nice.   I've found it makes it difficult to build characters when I have to sort through two separate decks of cards to find things I even qualify for let alone want to take.

I'm eager to start the game, and will post a play report on monday.

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If you want to factor in the cards as another rulebook, it works out very well.  In other rpgs, those cards would be embedded in the rulebook and taking up valuable space (see D&D 4e...1/2 the book is made up of powers).  Much room was saved in the rulebook by giving a framework of reading a card rather than detailing every rule in  a book.

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