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"Casual" players should be more worried about...

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"Casual" players should be more worried about... 2-day regional tournaments than intentional-draws. Pasttime's-Chicago and FFG-TC regionals are now two-day events. I 100% understand the reasoning because the events get very large, and result in long days. Though, I dislike it, and it will negatively affect my opportunities to play in large events this spring.

 

Honestly, can you really give up a whole weekend to X-Wing multiple times during the spring for regional events? IDs, at most, have a small chance of negatively affecting only 1-2 people in an event, and generally effect none (remember, Roanoke was the very 'worst case' scenario of all of the top8 being locked in and a corner case to start because of its extremely small size). 2-day regionals are going to hurt dozens of people that now have to plan around a weekend rather than a single day to play X-Wing at even a moderate level. Most other (all?) 2-day events are ran in the context of a convention or other events where you can solidly plan on making the longer trip, and are more infrequent.

 

I consider myself a fairly competitive player (of 4 regionals in the last 2 years: I've won 1 and top8 in 2 others - all >70 people in the midwest), but yet I'm probably going to have to forgo going to any nearby regionals this year because of the 2-day trip. So, if I'm making this decision to not go to a regionals because of the two-day commitment: I can only imagine how this is effecting self-identified casual* x-wingers. Chicago's day 2 doesn't even start until 11am (4 rounds makes it go until 6pm easily).

 

Note: I am NOT calling for these events to now change to one-day events. I think that these being 2-day events is entirely healthy for the game, though I think this is a larger issue for casual players (by a large margin) than any impact that IDs may have (and I have yet to see anyone complain about 2-day regionals).

 

 

*(and lets be clear, if you're on this board, getting worked up about IDs because you're a "casual" player, clearly you weren't really casual to start, so maybe this is really a null thread)

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I kinda think going to a regional makes you a little bit more than casual.

Yeah that does really put you beyond the casual level.

As far as 2 day regionals... They'll either work or they won't. They'll find either fewer people show up to them, because they can't devote a weekend, or they'll find that more people show up because they won't have a 12+ hour day.

 

I suppose the numbers won't change much one way or the other, but as long as the event draws how ever many people they feel they need to be a success then that's their call.

 

If that means I don't go to the regionals then that's what it means.  Perhaps it means someone else can or will, and they have as much right to see their desires met as I do.

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I kinda think going to a regional makes you a little bit more than casual.

 

I agree, though, many of the self-proclaimed 'casuals' (see my caveat in the OP) are banging the drum regarding how larger events should be ran, so I'm working off of 'casual' being a self-imposed title than anything based in reality.

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I don't see how a 2-day event is that much more of a commitment than an event that goes till 3am on one day.  Or if it's local you're going to end up sleeping in or feeling like crap the next day.  Realistically you're still going to need a hotel for the single day, unless you don't make the cut.  If you don't make the cut for a 2-day, you can leave after day 1 as well.  I think 2 day events are a GREAT solution for the excruciatingly long tournaments!

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I kinda think going to a regional makes you a little bit more than casual.

Yeah that does really put you beyond the casual level.

As far as 2 day regionals... They'll either work or they won't. They'll find either fewer people show up to them, because they can't devote a weekend, or they'll find that more people show up because they won't have a 12+ hour day.

 

I suppose the numbers won't change much one way or the other, but as long as the event draws how ever many people they feel they need to be a success then that's their call.

 

If that means I don't go to the regionals then that's what it means.  Perhaps it means someone else can or will, and they have as much right to see their desires met as I do.

 

 

I don't want to see the 2-day regionals change at all. I think it's an amazing sign that the game is growing and stores are willing to dedicate two days to it. I'm more disappointed that now I am unable to go to events where I was able to in the past.

 

However, I am a little annoyed that the first VA regional was 45 people and these regionals will be 100+ (though, I think that's often the case with gaming in the great-lakes and midwest versus coasts). Hopefully FFG continues to tune their regions year-to-year to try and help level out the attendance a bit.

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I might be more "new" than "causal" whatever it means, but I am intending to go to the regional at FFG headquarters in May.  I saw that it was changing to two days yesterday and my heart sank a little bit.  I live about an hour and a half away, and I'm not sure I can justify the hotel room cost.   Admittedly, I probably won't make the cut so I'm really just missing out on watching the elimination bracket, but it still was a downer.

 

Maybe I'll make the cut!  You never know.  Then I have to worry about playing with tiny plastic spaceships on Mother's Day.

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I kinda think going to a regional makes you a little bit more than casual.

 

I agree, though, many of the self-proclaimed 'casuals' (see my caveat in the OP) are banging the drum regarding how larger events should be ran, so I'm working off of 'casual' being a self-imposed title than anything based in reality.

 

 

Well....this is where you see the split in what "casual" means.  There is the "Fly Casual" tournament goers that want to play a tournament that is laid back and fun.  There is also the ones that don't go to tournaments and just play X-wing casually.  

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"Casual" players should be more worried about... 2-day regional tournaments than intentional-draws. Pasttime's-Chicago and FFG-TC regionals are now two-day events. I 100% understand the reasoning because the events get very large, and result in long days. Though, I dislike it, and it will negatively affect my opportunities to play in large events this spring.

 

Honestly, can you really give up a whole weekend to X-Wing multiple times during the spring for regional events? IDs, at most, have a small chance of negatively affecting only 1-2 people in an event, and generally effect none (remember, Roanoke was the very 'worst case' scenario of all of the top8 being locked in and a corner case to start because of its extremely small size). 2-day regionals are going to hurt dozens of people that now have to plan around a weekend rather than a single day to play X-Wing at even a moderate level. Most other (all?) 2-day events are ran in the context of a convention or other events where you can solidly plan on making the longer trip, and are more infrequent.

 

I consider myself a fairly competitive player (of 4 regionals in the last 2 years: I've won 1 and top8 in 2 others - all >70 people in the midwest), but yet I'm probably going to have to forgo going to any nearby regionals this year because of the 2-day trip. So, if I'm making this decision to not go to a regionals because of the two-day commitment: I can only imagine how this is effecting self-identified casual* x-wingers. Chicago's day 2 doesn't even start until 11am (4 rounds makes it go until 6pm easily).

 

Note: I am NOT calling for these events to now change to one-day events. I think that these being 2-day events is entirely healthy for the game, though I think this is a larger issue for casual players (by a large margin) than any impact that IDs may have (and I have yet to see anyone complain about 2-day regionals).

 

 

*(and lets be clear, if you're on this board, getting worked up about IDs because you're a "casual" player, clearly you weren't really casual to start, so maybe this is really a null thread)

 

Why is that a concern for you, you will not make the cut on day one anyway as casual player? ;-)

So you can plan on going home after the day just fine. And if you are really a casual, you are fine with going home after day one even if you made the cut. You can now at least leave a note that you ID all following games ;-)

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I don't see how a 2-day event is that much more of a commitment than an event that goes till 3am on one day.  Or if it's local you're going to end up sleeping in or feeling like crap the next day.  Realistically you're still going to need a hotel for the single day, unless you don't make the cut.  If you don't make the cut for a 2-day, you can leave after day 1 as well.  I think 2 day events are a GREAT solution for the excruciatingly long tournaments!

 

I think your analysis is true if day 2 were to start earlier. Instead, day 2 doesn't start until lunch at Pasttimes (I haven't seen a day 2 schedule from the game center yet), so it is an entire day then travel back home still rather than just Sunday being travel.

 

But, like I said, I do think it's healthy for the game overall: I don't want to see these events changed. I'm just surprised that more haven't come out complaining.

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I might be more "new" than "causal" whatever it means, but I am intending to go to the regional at FFG headquarters in May.  I saw that it was changing to two days yesterday and my heart sank a little bit.  I live about an hour and a half away, and I'm not sure I can justify the hotel room cost.   Admittedly, I probably won't make the cut so I'm really just missing out on watching the elimination bracket, but it still was a downer.

 

Maybe I'll make the cut!  You never know.  Then I have to worry about playing with tiny plastic spaceships on Mother's Day.

 

Argh! I hadn't even thought about that with FFG's regional.

 

Thanks for expressing your concern with the same situation.

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are banging the drum regarding how larger events should be ran

I consider things like these OP events to be in a way form of democracy, people can vote with their feet.

If a 2 day event has 16 people show up for it, then clearly something is wrong with that decision. But if it had 32 last year and gets 64 this year, then it was the right decision.

If they had 64 last year and get 64 again this year then it would seem the number of people who don't like two day events were replaced with those who either do or don't care.

So until we know how it goes, it's hard to know if it's really the right call or not.

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@>VanorDM Not really, having just 16 this year means just that I can cut down the tourney to a 1-day event and be happy that the event is not overcrowd and is manageable. The whole reason those events have a 2 day schedule is because they grew to big for one day. Voting with your feet is in this context rather irrelevant, because the second day is not a benefit for the TO, but a necessary evil. 

Edited by SEApocalypse

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I personally am traveling to two regionals that are 4+ hours away so I have to get hotels (or stay with family in one case) to go two days or not. 

 

I am a competitive player, I will admit to that, but almost every other major game system has their larger events over multiple days so I am used to it from previous (40k, fantasy, Warmahordes etc.) 

Edited by Timathius

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However, I am a little annoyed that the first VA regional was 45 people and these regionals will be 100+ (though, I think that's often the case with gaming in the great-lakes and midwest versus coasts). Hopefully FFG continues to tune their regions year-to-year to try and help level out the attendance a bit.

The Albuquerque Regionals had fewer than 40 players, IIRC. 

 

Well it probably puts it beyond something I can attend. I want to try to be competitive and do well, but it's always hard to eek out the time needed to drive a long way, play  all day, and get everything else I need to do done.

The time commitment is something to consider carefully, of course, but the two options are to cap attendance--at 76, for instance, you have "just" six rounds of Swiss and then three rounds of elimination play. If you started promptly at 10am and ran an efficient tournament, you could be done by midnight even with a short meal break.

But that's still not exactly a short day, and what do you do when you have 136 people who want to play and only 76 spots? If the entry fee is $10, that attendance cap represents a store turning away $600 worth of business, not counting selling snacks and drinks or the intangible value of community-building. And it also represents sixty people who don't get to play X-wing, which FFG presumably doesn't want.

So if capping attendance is out, you could ask people to arrive earlier in the morning or play later into the night (or more likely both), meaning the quality of play will generally be lower, and you'll have people driving home exhausted (or getting hotels to avoid that outcome). Or you can spread it over two days, which gets you higher quality of play but represents a larger investment on the part of your players, including staying overnight for anyone coming from out of town.

It's a problem with a lot of partial solutions, but no really good ones.

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are banging the drum regarding how larger events should be ran

I consider things like these OP events to be in a way form of democracy, people can vote with their feet.

If a 2 day event has 16 people show up for it, then clearly something is wrong with that decision. But if it had 32 last year and gets 64 this year, then it was the right decision.

If they had 64 last year and get 64 again this year then it would seem the number of people who don't like two day events were replaced with those who either do or don't care.

So until we know how it goes, it's hard to know if it's really the right call or not.

 

Oh, I think 2-day events are the right call for these events (as I've said). I don't think there's enough casual players that won't go to make a noticable shift, but now (as there's 3 people posting in this thread, myself included) there is some further division among regionals being an available tournament for players to go to.

 

 

I personally am traveling to two regionals that are 4+ hours away so I have to get hotels (or stay with family in one case) to go two days or not. 

 

I am a competitive player, I will admit to that, but almost every other major game system has their larger events over multiple days so I am used to it from previous (40k, fantasy, Warmahordes etc.) 

 

Their larger events, yes (Masters for Wm/H, Nationals/Worlds for X-Wing). And they're usually at conventions where there is more than just the event (and past times is running a Sunday tournament it looks like). I'm not familiar with any scattered qualifying-level tournament in WM/H or a GW game that is 2 days (nationals is a 'qualifier' type event for x-wing, sure, but not as scattered and available as regionals). There are singular exceptions, and my feeling is that if 2-day regionals become a norm there will be more regionals in years-future to try and make them mostly 1-day events.

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However, I am a little annoyed that the first VA regional was 45 people and these regionals will be 100+ (though, I think that's often the case with gaming in the great-lakes and midwest versus coasts). Hopefully FFG continues to tune their regions year-to-year to try and help level out the attendance a bit.

The Albuquerque Regionals had fewer than 40 players, IIRC. 

 

Well it probably puts it beyond something I can attend. I want to try to be competitive and do well, but it's always hard to eek out the time needed to drive a long way, play  all day, and get everything else I need to do done.

The time commitment is something to consider carefully, of course, but the two options are to cap attendance--at 76, for instance, you have "just" six rounds of Swiss and then three rounds of elimination play. If you started promptly at 10am and ran an efficient tournament, you could be done by midnight even with a short meal break.

But that's still not exactly a short day, and what do you do when you have 136 people who want to play and only 76 spots? If the entry fee is $10, that attendance cap represents a store turning away $600 worth of business, not counting selling snacks and drinks or the intangible value of community-building. And it also represents sixty people who don't get to play X-wing, which FFG presumably doesn't want.

So if capping attendance is out, you could ask people to arrive earlier in the morning or play later into the night (or more likely both), meaning the quality of play will generally be lower, and you'll have people driving home exhausted (or getting hotels to avoid that outcome). Or you can spread it over two days, which gets you higher quality of play but represents a larger investment on the part of your players, including staying overnight for anyone coming from out of town.

It's a problem with a lot of partial solutions, but no really good ones.

 

(off topic) About 10 years ago, when I lived near Detroit, I was used to Magic PTQs being 100-200 players regularly. I was visiting a friend in Phoenix and went to a PTQ there: it was 35 people - and the largest they had ever hosted (the TO was soooo happy). The same reward being given to the winners of 200 person tournaments versus 35 person tournaments was disappointing to see.

 

 

(on topic) I've mentioned that opening more regionals may be an option - but I don't know if that really is a solution. I think this is filed under one of the 'good' problems to have for most involved, though.

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are banging the drum regarding how larger events should be ran

I consider things like these OP events to be in a way form of democracy, people can vote with their feet.

If a 2 day event has 16 people show up for it, then clearly something is wrong with that decision. But if it had 32 last year and gets 64 this year, then it was the right decision.

If they had 64 last year and get 64 again this year then it would seem the number of people who don't like two day events were replaced with those who either do or don't care.

So until we know how it goes, it's hard to know if it's really the right call or not.

 

Oh, I think 2-day events are the right call for these events (as I've said). I don't think there's enough casual players that won't go to make a noticable shift, but now (as there's 3 people posting in this thread, myself included) there is some further division among regionals being an available tournament for players to go to.

 

 

I personally am traveling to two regionals that are 4+ hours away so I have to get hotels (or stay with family in one case) to go two days or not. 

 

I am a competitive player, I will admit to that, but almost every other major game system has their larger events over multiple days so I am used to it from previous (40k, fantasy, Warmahordes etc.) 

 

Their larger events, yes (Masters for Wm/H, Nationals/Worlds for X-Wing). And they're usually at conventions where there is more than just the event (and past times is running a Sunday tournament it looks like). I'm not familiar with any scattered qualifying-level tournament in WM/H or a GW game that is 2 days (nationals is a 'qualifier' type event for x-wing, sure, but not as scattered and available as regionals). There are singular exceptions, and my feeling is that if 2-day regionals become a norm there will be more regionals in years-future to try and make them mostly 1-day events.

 

At the end, all of the fantasy qualifiers in the Masters system were two day events. Nationals was as well. I went to about one a month which is what I am doign for xwing regionals. That is one of the main reasons I am going to Raleigh instead of Martinsburg, I have played at both in Fantasy and Atomic has BEER so it wins. 

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I consider myself a casual player, yet I am planning to attend and play in the Salt Lake Regional. Do I expect to win? Hahahahaha.....no. Do I expect to make the cut? Again, not really. I expect to have a great time, playing against some people that are far better at this game than I am, and I think that my skills are just average enough to let me win a couple of games, and probably fall somewhere in the middle to lower middle scores. I am trying, within the limits of my collection, to come up with a good list, and I hope that my list plus my skills will give my opponents and I enjoyable games, regardless of who wins.

After the tournament, I'll revisit the issue of considering whether I remain a casual gamer, or if the competitive side catches my ambition enough to get more involved.

Either way, any event is far enough from me that I'm looking at staying overnight, anyway, so a two-day event doesn't bug me. Of course, I presently also don't really have an opinion about the draw issue, either, but I thought I'd weigh in on the idea of casual gamers at regional tourneys. :)

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2 day regionals are fine, people can travel and plan for them and even "casuals" will like to play in them.  I can see these becoming even larger if they have some sort of tournament the next day for anyone that didn't make the cut.  Hangar Bay format anyone?  Make it happen!  

 

I'd travel for a 2 day tournament!  Chicago did it right.  Didn't make Saturday's cut?  or 2nd cut?  We have Hangar bay for you!  You still get to play xwing :)

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