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surly88

Kanan Ghost with Biggs - the answer to everything?

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These sort of lists popped up recently at various tournaments.

I'd be really interested what the common consensus is on that kind of list.

 

I have neither played nor played against it so far, but at least on paper it looks great.

 

The list can be build in various ways ...

 

Biggs with IA and either R4-D6 or R2-D2

Kanan Jarrus with title, Tactical Jammer and 1 Recon Specialist at least, rest is variable. TLT, Tactician and FCS/AS or ABT in combination with Acc. Correctors and some sort of crew

Some sort of Phantom, mostly Ezra Bridger with some form to induce stress (PTL, Rage) and Chopper

 

 

Looking through tournament top eights from the last tournaments there are a ton of imperials and u-boat lists around.

Against u-boats the combination of Biggs and Kanan seems hilarious. Kanan reducing their shots to that Biggs can soak up 4+ Hits, which leaves a pretty healthy Kanan on the table to finish them off.

Against the imps I'd be rather concerned if that one-shotting combo of ABT and AC would joust me, backed up with Biggs. TLT and Tactician can be also pretty nasty.

 

 

So I'm curious, what's the main weakness of that list? There have to be a few, otherwise it would probably see more play I guess.

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Sounds decent in all honesty.  You're forcing split fire between Biggs and Kanan (assuming you play him better than your opponent plays against him), and Biggs gets to roll at least 3 dice, if not 4, against a 1 dice weaker attack.  You have to like your odds there.

 

They both move at the same PS, so there isn't that issue between the two of them.  But Biggs isn't as mobile as Kanan, and if you ever have to K turn, now Biggs is going to be in front for forever (or bump, he could always just bump into the back of Kanan).  

 

The real weakness comes in from that fact that you're flying an X wing.  That has always been the weakness of Biggs.  That said, if you're going to fly one, I can't think of a better way to do so than what you've come up with above.  It's peaked my interest to try a similar such thing for my own list.  Given I don't have enough points for Kanan, but I can try the Tactical Jammer supporting Biggs...

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Someone will have to explain his game plan with tactical jammer when using it on only 1 large ship. That thing is the easiest to avoid by the laziest flank possible (sometimes, even a barrel roll is sufficient).

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Someone will have to explain his game plan with tactical jammer when using it on only 1 large ship. That thing is the easiest to avoid by the laziest flank possible (sometimes, even a barrel roll is sufficient).

This.

If someone tries to joust that list they are kind of asking for it. Lists that can only joust will legitimately have a tough time.

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No, the TJ is legit, it just takes some practice to get used to.

 

I've flown it about 5 or 6 times now, and I've lost once because of a messy early-stages build, and once from some nasty dice problems.

 

Short answer to op: Biggs is relying on green dice a little, and when they flunk he goes down quick against ordnance. Other than that, I really like the list, it's a lot of fun to fly, and demands skill and learning. Recommended, take it for a spin Surly  :)

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Well it's not like I came up with the idea, that kind of list won a SC recently and failed getting into a few Top 8's. So it's still pretty much under the radar, but getting more and more attention I guess...

 

There's also a video from previous regionals, where the list slaughters 2 bots ...

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Dash Rendar would probably cause this list some problems as he likes staying at range 3 and has the ability to move right where he wants to, not to mention his HLC throwing 4 dice at you every round. He could really get the Ghost in a rough spot where he's never in its firing arc. That said, I like the list a lot and have been listbuilding it myself.

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Haha, yeah you're absolutely right. I'm definately sure that the list has a lot of various counters, no doubt about that. So tbh my title "answer to everything" is pretty blatant :lol:

Should probably have read "answer to triple u-boat and 4 ship Imp lists that show up everywhere" :D

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Oh, I understand what you mean - everything has a counter! Dash just seemed to be the biggest threat to it that I could think of, so I'd figure I'd throw it out there. It's strong against a lot of meta, and like Theorist said recently, a lot of people have hung up Dash and sort of gave up on finding him a new wingmate since Wave 8. I like Travis Foss' idea of using a Lothal Rebel alongside Dash, but I haven't seen anyone play it.

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Honestly the inquisitor is a problem for this list. Drifting at r3 he's immune to kanan and doesn't give biggs that extra evade die from that privilege. Sure you can fly the ghost pretty fast to close on him but that is likely to allow another ace to flank and once Biggs is gone kanan could definitely have trouble not getting burned down.

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Oh, I understand what you mean - everything has a counter! Dash just seemed to be the biggest threat to it that I could think of, so I'd figure I'd throw it out there. It's strong against a lot of meta, and like Theorist said recently, a lot of people have hung up Dash and sort of gave up on finding him a new wingmate since Wave 8. I like Travis Foss' idea of using a Lothal Rebel alongside Dash, but I haven't seen anyone play it.

 

I too have that list somewhere in my squad-builder but havent played it yet, mostly because I dont have a Ghost at this moment :P

Will be fun to keep the YT-2400 in play though, because i really love that ship! :)

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4 Tie advanced's with ATC focussing on Biggs could also be an issue as he will have to soak up at least 4 crits every turn... and once he is gone they will rip apart the ghost, even with kanan's ability.

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wouldn't waste time on jammer, though. green dice aren't known for doing a god **** thing without full modifiers, and biggs'll have r4-d6 anyway

The Combination of Kanan + TJ and R4-D6 on Biggs work well though. Between them they mitigate against both ordnance alpha strikes and "death by a thousand paper-cuts" from swarms. The extra green dice becomes a bit more useful when your opponent is only rolling 1-2 Red dice.

I am not saying it is unbeatable. It takes some skill to fly and your opponent will quickly work their way around your flanks. Also their position may negate Biggs anyway. But particularly during the opening salvoes in Turn 2, Biggs will be taking a lot of heat off the big brick while gaining a measure of protection himself.

Biggs is not expected to survive the battle. The idea is that by the time he goes down, he and the Ghost have punished the enemy sufficiently that the Ghost can pop the Phantom and mop up. I think it is certainly a competitive list although I am not convinced it will be top-tier with triple U-boats and Palp-Aces floating about.

But it should be good enough that a decent player can have fun and still stand a good chance of winning.

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The main weakness is good flying, where the opponent will have shots on the Ghost without having Biggs in arc, or shots on Biggs without the protection of the Ghost.

 

Or Kanan gets blocked which makes Biggs easier to burn down than expected.

 

 

Doh! I forgot that Advanced Sensors are a thing.

Edited by WWHSD

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Strong Alpha attack lists are the weakness of any list with a Ghost in it. 0 agility and a large base = crit city!

... Except that if played correctly, the alpha strike is shooting at a four evade dice Biggs, while Kanan is lowering the dice throw by at least some of the alpha strike, and then throwing 9-10 red dice back at the alpha strike.

I slaughtered triple jumpmasters this weekend, and palp aces. Kanan and Biggs is a thing. I fly my Kanan with 1 recon spec and dash crew and take big rocks, so Biggs is better protected by various obstacles (including the ghost with TJ) and Kanan has no issue landing on rocks to get a range 1 shot and throw 7 red dice a round, still getting his action (focuses) with advance sensors.

I placed 3rd out of 45 in Vancouver.

Kanan has WAY better than 0 agility. Biggs IS his agility. By the time Biggs comes off the board (and in 2 of 6 games this weekend, he never did, I tabled 2 of my opponents)... The majority of the alpha strike either died before ever getting anything off, or it was nearly 100% evaded.

Edited by Sephlar

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Well it's not like I came up with the idea, that kind of list won a SC recently and failed getting into a few Top 8's. So it's still pretty much under the radar, but getting more and more attention I guess...

 

There's also a video from previous regionals, where the list slaughters 2 bots ...

 

Easy to slaughter your enemy when you are not following the rules!

Accuracy Corrector changes 2 dice to hits after cancelling all dice results, and Autoblaster Turret is a 2 dice attack... however, in 2 rounds in a row, this combo managed to do 3 damage directly to the IG's.

 

Big difference when you are doing 50% more damage than you should be each round.

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or it was nearly 100% evaded.

That actually seems pretty lucky.

4 naked agility is 1.5 evades and a torpmaster should be dropping 3/3 hits or 4/4 hits pretty consistently. Assuming 3 torps you're looking at 10 hits (since kanan only has 2 focus) vs. 4.5 evades or an expected alpha on Biggs of 5.5 damage, enough to kill him.

As for dying before firing I'm shocked that 2 ships could deal 9 damage through 2 agility when those two ships have an absolute maximum of 9 dice both range 1.

Not looking to dismiss your success but the apparent ease with which this build crushed something like triple torpmasters seems like a mathematical anomaly.

Edited by nigeltastic

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