Rhymerball 2.0

[MrTopHatJones 185]

So after getting tabled with my first Rhymerball, I changed the demolisher out for 2 Raiders to flank my carrier. My question for you guys: do I need to worry about bidding for initiative or can a Rhymerball comfortably go second and let me use those remaining 11 points on an upgrade or another squadron? I wouldn't hate having to find points for a Firespray (I only have one, so a Fireball is unfortunately not an option).

 

Rhymerball 2.0
 

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 389/400

Commander: Admiral Motti

Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Superior Positions

 

[ flagship ] Imperial I-Class Star Destroyer (110 points)
-  Admiral Motti  ( 24  points)
-  Relentless  ( 3  points)
-  Wulff Yularen  ( 7  points)
-  Expanded Hangar Bay  ( 5  points)
-  Boosted Comms  ( 4  points)
 

Raider-I Class Corvette (44 points)
-  Ordnance Experts  ( 4  points)
-  Assault Concussion Missiles  ( 7  points)
 

Raider-I Class Corvette (44 points)
-  Ordnance Experts  ( 4  points)
-  Assault Concussion Missiles  ( 7  points)

1 Darth Vader ( 21 points)
3 TIE Bomber Squadrons ( 27 points)
1 Major Rhymer ( 16 points)
1 Dengar ( 20 points)
1 Soontir Fel ( 18 points)
2 TIE Advanced Squadrons ( 24 points)

[Akhrin 576]

Might have to borrow this list for a test flight some time actually, it looks like fun.

 

Wondering about whether it's worth considering Avenger instead of Relentless? That way any defence tokens used against the squads are out of action against the ISD. Then again, Relentless tends to be worth its weight in gold.

[modise 87]

Going second does not affect the rhymerball, as long as you position your rhymerball correctly and outmanuever his squadrons.  Going second almost helps because you can move your squadrons based on his moves.  The thing that hurts the rhymerball is activations.  If he has ships outside of your rhymerball, range he can move them first and when you do your squadron command, you might not have any ships in range.  Then he can move his other ships into your rhymerball range and decide what hull he will let your squadrons plink at. 

[MrTopHatJones 185]

Might have to borrow this list for a test flight some time actually, it looks like fun.

 

Wondering about whether it's worth considering Avenger instead of Relentless? That way any defence tokens used against the squads are out of action against the ISD. Then again, Relentless tends to be worth its weight in gold.

I always dream about Avenger, but especially taking Wulff instead of Wing Commander I felt having the flexibility was more important than the small amount of damage I'd get... especially with an ISD1, I'm less likely to have a lot of dice going toward high activation TRC lists (which are popular in my meta, and are part of my wanting to try the Rhymerball again). It'd be nasty for the MC30/Rieekan torpedoes, though. 

[MrTopHatJones 185]

Going second does not affect the rhymerball, as long as you position your rhymerball correctly and outmanuever his squadrons.  Going second almost helps because you can move your squadrons based on his moves.  The thing that hurts the rhymerball is activations.  If he has ships outside of your rhymerball, range he can move them first and when you do your squadron command, you might not have any ships in range.  Then he can move his other ships into your rhymerball range and decide what hull he will let your squadrons plink at. 

That's why I threw ACMs on the Raiders; keep one back to block whatever they throw at my carrier, and bring one forward to make them decide if they want to go after the Raider with its ACMs or the squadrons with that hull zone. 

 

My first Rhymerball list had a Demolisher instead of the 2 Raiders. Against a 4 ship Rieekan fleet that hurt a lot. 

Edited April 11, 2016 by MrTopHatJones

[ceejlekabeejle 473]

A question more than a suggestion - why do you choose TIE Bombers over Firesprays? I've just started experimenting with Rhymerballs myself, and have taken Firesprays because I like the fact that they can hold their own in a squadron and battle and have rogue. I have had to, however, trade numbers for versatility, and lose those black dice. So I'm just wondering if you've tried both and how you've found them?

[MrTopHatJones 185]

A question more than a suggestion - why do you choose TIE Bombers over Firesprays? I've just started experimenting with Rhymerballs myself, and have taken Firesprays because I like the fact that they can hold their own in a squadron and battle and have rogue. I have had to, however, trade numbers for versatility, and lose those black dice. So I'm just wondering if you've tried both and how you've found them?

 

Long answer: Firesprays are great with Rogue and all, but one of them is worth two normal bombers. If I can utilize my squadron activation (toward which my ISD1 is built with boosted comms + Wulff + expanded hangar bays) I can get more activations and throw an equal number of dice (two blacks on two TIE bombers vs 2 blues on a Firespray). Dengar gives counter 1 and the TIE Advanced + Dengar + Soontir Fel mean, if I'm flying them correctly, they can't attack the bombers, my advanced get a counter die, and Fel does a passive point of damage for every Advanced they attack, giving me 1-2 points of damage for each of THEIR squadron attacks. By the time the TIE advanced drop (especially Vader), my bombers have hopefully done enough damage.

 

Short answer: I only own one Firespray and I'm too poor to buy a whole xpac for one squadron.

[Sanguinary Dan 468]

Consider using some of those points to put X17s on the ISD. That way when he does get to shoot your shots will hurt the facing arc and not be spread around.

Another thing to consider is APTs on the Raiders. It increases their fear factor against well shielded ships by almost guaranteeing a Crit. Sure, the extra damage from concussions is nice. But making him worry about an evil critical hit is nicer.

[MrTopHatJones 185]

Consider using some of those points to put X17s on the ISD. That way when he does get to shoot your shots will hurt the facing arc and not be spread around.

Another thing to consider is APTs on the Raiders. It increases their fear factor against well shielded ships by almost guaranteeing a Crit. Sure, the extra damage from concussions is nice. But making him worry about an evil critical hit is nicer.

I always bounce back and forth on ACMs vs APTs. I wanted to try it this way first to see if the overall splash damage plus bomber dice would mean I didn't need XI7s. Also, with it being an ISD1 I'm going to be relying on the enemy to come to me, and at anything besides close range that's dicey.

 

Right now I'm trying to figure out how to use that last 11 points... maybe an instigator title or some such?

 

EDIT: I actually did add XI7s, as well as the Instigator Title. My current theorycrafting is to fly one Raider up to engage (hopefully to make them choose squadrons vs it in a big arc), and keep the instigator back to protect the ISD, which will be flying at speed 1.

Edited April 11, 2016 by MrTopHatJones

[ceejlekabeejle 473]

 

A question more than a suggestion - why do you choose TIE Bombers over Firesprays? I've just started experimenting with Rhymerballs myself, and have taken Firesprays because I like the fact that they can hold their own in a squadron and battle and have rogue. I have had to, however, trade numbers for versatility, and lose those black dice. So I'm just wondering if you've tried both and how you've found them?

 

Long answer: Firesprays are great with Rogue and all, but one of them is worth two normal bombers. If I can utilize my squadron activation (toward which my ISD1 is built with boosted comms + Wulff + expanded hangar bays) I can get more activations and throw an equal number of dice (two blacks on two TIE bombers vs 2 blues on a Firespray). Dengar gives counter 1 and the TIE Advanced + Dengar + Soontir Fel mean, if I'm flying them correctly, they can't attack the bombers, my advanced get a counter die, and Fel does a passive point of damage for every Advanced they attack, giving me 1-2 points of damage for each of THEIR squadron attacks. By the time the TIE advanced drop (especially Vader), my bombers have hopefully done enough damage.

 

Short answer: I only own one Firespray and I'm too poor to buy a whole xpac for one squadron.

 

 

I think all of that makes sense. My fleet is slightly less geared towards squadrons, taking boosted comms but not expanded hangers. I also prefer to use my activations to operate a fighter screen to keep enemy squadrons away from the Rhymerball, rather than to move the Rhymerball itself. For that reason, I appreciate the rogue on the Firespray, and the fact that I don't then really need escorts, but I might try it with just bombers at some point.

[ceejlekabeejle 473]

I always bounce back and forth on ACMs vs APTs. I wanted to try it this way first to see if the overall splash damage plus bomber dice would mean I didn't need XI7s. Also, with it being an ISD1 I'm going to be relying on the enemy to come to me, and at anything besides close range that's dicey.

 

 

I've played with exactly the same question of ACM vs APT. In the end, I've decided that ACMs are more reliable. APTs could get you a great critical hit, but equally they could just give you something mediocre and only have put one damage in the hull. ACMs are a guaranteed drain on the shields, which are the real obstacles when it comes to taking down rebel ships, and once they're stripped away they're a guaranteed two hits that can't be braced or redirected away.

[Sanguinary Dan 468]

I always bounce back and forth on ACMs vs APTs. I wanted to try it this way first to see if the overall splash damage plus bomber dice would mean I didn't need XI7s. Also, with it being an ISD1 I'm going to be relying on the enemy to come to me, and at anything besides close range that's dicey.

 

I've played with exactly the same question of ACM vs APT. In the end, I've decided that ACMs are more reliable. APTs could get you a great critical hit, but equally they could just give you something mediocre and only have put one damage in the hull. ACMs are a guaranteed drain on the shields, which are the real obstacles when it comes to taking down rebel ships, and once they're stripped away they're a guaranteed two hits that can't be braced or redirected away.

I'll admit I've only really considered the difference when my points are tight. So cheaper and with a guaranteed critical seemed safer. That and being able to lay a pair of crits if I'm lucky enough to double arc the target.

[MrTopHatJones 185]

 

 

A question more than a suggestion - why do you choose TIE Bombers over Firesprays? I've just started experimenting with Rhymerballs myself, and have taken Firesprays because I like the fact that they can hold their own in a squadron and battle and have rogue. I have had to, however, trade numbers for versatility, and lose those black dice. So I'm just wondering if you've tried both and how you've found them?

 

Long answer: Firesprays are great with Rogue and all, but one of them is worth two normal bombers. If I can utilize my squadron activation (toward which my ISD1 is built with boosted comms + Wulff + expanded hangar bays) I can get more activations and throw an equal number of dice (two blacks on two TIE bombers vs 2 blues on a Firespray). Dengar gives counter 1 and the TIE Advanced + Dengar + Soontir Fel mean, if I'm flying them correctly, they can't attack the bombers, my advanced get a counter die, and Fel does a passive point of damage for every Advanced they attack, giving me 1-2 points of damage for each of THEIR squadron attacks. By the time the TIE advanced drop (especially Vader), my bombers have hopefully done enough damage.

 

Short answer: I only own one Firespray and I'm too poor to buy a whole xpac for one squadron.

 

 

I think all of that makes sense. My fleet is slightly less geared towards squadrons, taking boosted comms but not expanded hangers. I also prefer to use my activations to operate a fighter screen to keep enemy squadrons away from the Rhymerball, rather than to move the Rhymerball itself. For that reason, I appreciate the rogue on the Firespray, and the fact that I don't then really need escorts, but I might try it with just bombers at some point.

 

Thing is, I only have the 4 bombers, so I don't really *need* expanded hangars, but it gives me a good chance to get an alpha strike on an enemy ship with Vader (another black die, no crits but 25% chance of 2 dmg), or put some hurt on a squadron with Fel (who sits nestled safely next to Dengar).

 

The only other consideration I've looked at is dropping Dengar for a naked Firespray and taking Chiraneau, but the intel + counter 1 on my escorts is just too good to ignore.

[MrTopHatJones 185]

 

 

A question more than a suggestion - why do you choose TIE Bombers over Firesprays? I've just started experimenting with Rhymerballs myself, and have taken Firesprays because I like the fact that they can hold their own in a squadron and battle and have rogue. I have had to, however, trade numbers for versatility, and lose those black dice. So I'm just wondering if you've tried both and how you've found them?

 

Long answer: Firesprays are great with Rogue and all, but one of them is worth two normal bombers. If I can utilize my squadron activation (toward which my ISD1 is built with boosted comms + Wulff + expanded hangar bays) I can get more activations and throw an equal number of dice (two blacks on two TIE bombers vs 2 blues on a Firespray). Dengar gives counter 1 and the TIE Advanced + Dengar + Soontir Fel mean, if I'm flying them correctly, they can't attack the bombers, my advanced get a counter die, and Fel does a passive point of damage for every Advanced they attack, giving me 1-2 points of damage for each of THEIR squadron attacks. By the time the TIE advanced drop (especially Vader), my bombers have hopefully done enough damage.

 

Short answer: I only own one Firespray and I'm too poor to buy a whole xpac for one squadron.

 

 

I think all of that makes sense. My fleet is slightly less geared towards squadrons, taking boosted comms but not expanded hangers. I also prefer to use my activations to operate a fighter screen to keep enemy squadrons away from the Rhymerball, rather than to move the Rhymerball itself. For that reason, I appreciate the rogue on the Firespray, and the fact that I don't then really need escorts, but I might try it with just bombers at some point.

 

If I could get 4 more Firesprays for <$50 I'd love to try a Fireball, but I just can't justify it with how much money I've already thrown at Armada.

[Gorthaur25 130]

I like your list but you will suffer from a lack of squadron activation's. Other squad heavy builds will be able to tie you up or alpha your ball if they have multiple carriers. Relying on one ship to do all the squad pushing also really hampers your activation order.

 

Also going second is not a big deal. Add another squad or change commanders. 

[Ollie124 31]

For your Raider I's, don't rule out the use of Expanded Launchers and OE on them.  Was at a tournament this past weekend where some kitted out like this were used in a fleet, and they threw out an insane amount of damage for their size.

[MrTopHatJones 185]

For your Raider I's, don't rule out the use of Expanded Launchers and OE on them.  Was at a tournament this past weekend where some kitted out like this were used in a fleet, and they threw out an insane amount of damage for their size.

So my problem is this, based on the last two responses: I need stronger ships and more squadron activations.

 

Deciding which to prioritize is the rub. Based on the ability to handle squadrons, I'm thinking prioritizing the Raiders that can pull double duty; OE/EL on ships, 2 black dice with reroll to put the hurt on squadrons that come in for an alpha strike. 

[MrTopHatJones 185]

I like your list but you will suffer from a lack of squadron activation's. Other squad heavy builds will be able to tie you up or alpha your ball if they have multiple carriers. Relying on one ship to do all the squad pushing also really hampers your activation order.

 

Also going second is not a big deal. Add another squad or change commanders. 

In addition to my response above re: dealing with other squad heavy builds (namely, using Raiders to help intercept, maybe one with Instigator), other feedback I had gotten on lists with a lot of, say, interceptors, was that they're not great against ships if players bring a ship-heavy, squadron-light build (which seems very popular right now). I actually relooked at the Rhymerball after a disastrous first flight with my last list based upon the fact that so many people are taking competitive bids for first and hoping to win with ship activation spam. It's my hope that Dengar and the TIE advanced can run interference at least long enough for my bombers to get into range; with long range to activate (12") and medium range to bomb (wherever that lies on the range ruler, maybe 8"?) I've got a good chance of getting where I need to be or taking their ships out of the fight. 

 

Of course, this is all theorycrafting and I'll see how hard I whiff/don't whiff when I try it out tomorrow!

[Ginkapo 9,321]

My Rhymer ball is this:

 

Soontir Fell

Jumpmaster

Darth Vader

Tie Advanced

Rhymer

6x Tie Bomber

133pts

 

Commitment to the cause. Tie Advanced, Vader and Soontir can tie up and cause enemy fighters a whole host of problems. Need more bombers in your list, otherwise whats the point? You must be near maximum squadrons, for what? Three Tie bombers?

[MrTopHatJones 185]

My Rhymer ball is this:

 

Soontir Fell

Jumpmaster

Darth Vader

Tie Advanced

Rhymer

6x Tie Bomber

133pts

 

Commitment to the cause. Tie Advanced, Vader and Soontir can tie up and cause enemy fighters a whole host of problems. Need more bombers in your list, otherwise whats the point? You must be near maximum squadrons, for what? Three Tie bombers?

Fair point and well taken. I currently only own 4 bombers which is why I only brought 4. I may try to find room for a Firespray to take that to 5, or I may suck it up and get another pack of Imp Squadrons. 

[Ginkapo 9,321]

Theres the reason I only play Bomber spam on Vassal.

[MrTopHatJones 185]

This is what I'm bringing tonight. If it goes well, I may bump up to 6 bombers. Plan is to use ISD + Wulff to deploy my 4 bombers + either Vader or Fel (to hit, respectively, ship or squadron) then let the Firespray do its Firespray thing in squadron phase. The Expanded Launchers were too expensive, sadly. 

1 • Imperial I-class Star Destroyer - Admiral Motti - Wulff Yularen - Expanded Hangar Bay - Boosted Comms - Relentless (153)
2 • Raider I-class corvette - Ordnance Experts - Assault Concussion Missiles - Instigator (59)
3 • Raider I-class corvette - Ordnance Experts - Assault Concussion Missiles (55)
4 • Major Rhymer TIE Bomber Squadron (16)
5 • TIE Bomber Squadron (9)
6 • TIE Bomber Squadron (9)
7 • TIE Bomber Squadron (9)
8 • Firespray-31 (18)
9 • Darth Vader TIE Advanced Squadron (21)
10 • TIE Advanced Squadron (12)
11 • Soontir Fel TIE Interceptor Squadron (18)
12 • Dengar Punishing One (20)
13 • Objectives - Precision Strike - Contested Outpost - Superior Positions (0)

[MrTopHatJones 185]

Battle report: Played Superior Positions, chalked up a win with it. Was able to hang back and threaten just enough to draw MC30s/MC80s in. The Ackbar MC80 1-shotted one of my raiders (CF, Enhanced Armament, Ackbar = 4 blue and 8 FREAKING RED GUHHHH) and the other Raider almost dropped but I was able to table him in round 4.

 

Lessons for next time: start further back/work on diagonals. Going directly across fails to utilize the distance advantage that Rhymer gives; MC30 coming at speed 3/4 means Rhymer's ability is near useless in a few turns once the general thrashing begins.

 

I'd still like to see how this works vs a ship spam/bid list.  With everyone taking lower and lower bids for first player I'd like to see how I can do taking advantage of those 10-15 points that people neglect.