The reason Intentuonal draws are a complete and utter joke.

[Hawkstrike 5,372]

http://m.imgur.com/a/ncUkW

Is this the mindset we want of our top 8 players? That if you're not good enough to be top by the last swiss round than you need to fly better? Go to the link and read this garbage.

Yeah, the point is to be top 8 at the end of a six round tournament, not in the top eight at five and sandbag your way through six. For that player, 4-1-1 at the end of six is still only a 66% victory record. Were it a five round tournament, different story. Edited April 10, 2016 by Hawkstrike

[nikk whyte 3,868]

Intentional Draw is simply a bad rule.

 

Frankly, if you signed up to play a tournament, then play it all the way through. If your final match doesn't matter, who cares. Play it for fun, or to tighten up your game if you feel like you need to. Saying "Nah, the rules allow me to sit this one out" is a cop-out and lacks integrity.  When you could possibly lose and miss the cut but use a rule that you know is bad to rules-lawyer your way out of having to compete is utterly cowardly (not a slam on pheaver, as multiple people already pointed out he and the other top three wouldn't be effected by this at all).

 

FFG needs to get rid of this rule and sit down to figure out a more balanced way to make the tournament pairing work.

You SHOULD be slamming Pheaver. It's up to the leaders of the community to take an actual stance on something instead of waffling around it by saying its bad but I'm gonna do it anyway.

[IronLichRich 47]

I don't care if people ID. But if you don't want people to ID, make draws worth 0 points. It's as simple as that.

[Frydaddy 8]

Here's the answer: WIN all your games and you don't have to worry about it. Sounds like a lot of Boohooing from the players that were almost there. NEWS FLASH: Not everyone gets a trophy. 
Another point: You can ID into a Top Cut, but you can't ID after that.

[ScottieATF 2,864]

I'll concede your point if you can show me that only one intentional draw occurred at the Hoth Open.  I'll also disclaim that I wasn't there, and I'm reposting what one of my friends overheard, but I have no reason not to trust what he's saying.

 

But you know, Fly Casual or whatever.

Is that how this works? You can make a claim, with no backing but what your friend "overheard", and people are suppose to accept it. But other people, that can back up thier claim, are suppose to jump through hoops to disprove yours? The one you never gave any credible evidence of?

You are insinuating that players lied to the FFG Judge in order to get the Judge to accept thier ID (and that they wouldn't have accepted the ID otherwise), by stating that the offer was being made without any thought to the standings and the implications thier ID would have.

Now even if FFG was stupid enough to believe that two players in a position to take an ID to secure themselves a spot in the Top Cut were doing so for reasons other then that fact, and were infact unaware of what would be a painfully obvious circumstances, we have an actual account from a player that did take an ID that states he made it explicit to the event officials that he and his opponent were attempting to secure thier positions in the Top Cut.

So even if other players did lie to the TO about why were they taking an ID, and the TO accepted that lie despite it being a painfully obvious lie, the lie wasn't needed to get the TO to accept the ID as they accepted an ID from players that explicitly stated it was a result of them looking at the scores and realizing an ID puts them into the Top Cut.

So even if your story is true, it's irrelevant. And in all likelyhood not true like the 4 or 5 other second hand "stories" people have been posting in this thread.

[Wisconsen 156]

 

Intentional Draw is simply a bad rule.

 

Frankly, if you signed up to play a tournament, then play it all the way through. If your final match doesn't matter, who cares. Play it for fun, or to tighten up your game if you feel like you need to. Saying "Nah, the rules allow me to sit this one out" is a cop-out and lacks integrity.  When you could possibly lose and miss the cut but use a rule that you know is bad to rules-lawyer your way out of having to compete is utterly cowardly (not a slam on pheaver, as multiple people already pointed out he and the other top three wouldn't be effected by this at all).

 

FFG needs to get rid of this rule and sit down to figure out a more balanced way to make the tournament pairing work.

You SHOULD be slamming Pheaver. It's up to the leaders of the community to take an actual stance on something instead of waffling around it by saying its bad but I'm gonna do it anyway.

 

You SHOULD not be slamming anyone. Dislike the rule, argue against it. Give FFG feedback. Do not attack and shame other players for following rules you dislike.

[AtomicFryingPan 1,825]

Here's the answer: WIN all your games and you don't have to worry about it. Sounds like a lot of Boohooing from the players that were almost there. NEWS FLASH: Not everyone gets a trophy.

Another point: You can ID into a Top Cut, but you can't ID after that.

it'd be one thing if the players lost and we're boohooing about not making the cut but players who could have made it because they won didn't make it because the the other 4 tables said nah we aren't gonna have any losers here and let anyone jump into the top 8 Edited April 10, 2016 by AtomicFryingPan

[Frydaddy 8]

 

Here's the answer: WIN all your games and you don't have to worry about it. Sounds like a lot of Boohooing from the players that were almost there. NEWS FLASH: Not everyone gets a trophy. 

Another point: You can ID into a Top Cut, but you can't ID after that.

it'd be one thing if the players lost and we're boohooing about not making the cut but players who could have made it because they won didn't make it because the the other 4 tables said nah we aren't gonna have any lisers here and let anyone jump into the top 8

 

They should have WON their earlier games.

[librarian101 270]

Lets see, I paid money to play, there are prizes involved, the venue allowed the results to be manipulated, That sounds like fraud.  If I were one of the players that was cheated out of an opportunity to make the finals I would demand my money back and maybe contact the authorities to see if it does constitute fraud.  Every player deserves to have a fair opportunity, is this what fly casual means??? 

[Ikka 1,208]

 

 

You SHOULD be slamming Pheaver. It's up to the leaders of the community to take an actual stance on something instead of waffling around it by saying its bad but I'm gonna do it anyway.

 

 

I'm not slamming pheaver because for I don't like personally calling out people on forums and he could have been actually using the rule for it's implied intended purpose- to give those that would automatically make the cut a break before the cut. If, however, he and the other top 8 decided to ID for other reasons- to save themselves the possibility of losing and not making the cut, or they all decided together to ID (thus colluding and breaking the rules), then he should be held in just as much contempt as any of them.

[ViscerothSWG 3,940]

 

 

Here's the answer: WIN all your games and you don't have to worry about it. Sounds like a lot of Boohooing from the players that were almost there. NEWS FLASH: Not everyone gets a trophy. 

Another point: You can ID into a Top Cut, but you can't ID after that.

it'd be one thing if the players lost and we're boohooing about not making the cut but players who could have made it because they won didn't make it because the the other 4 tables said nah we aren't gonna have any lisers here and let anyone jump into the top 8

 

They should have WON their earlier games.

 

They should all have to play their last game. In a 6 round tournament, 6 rounds of play should be required to make the top cut. ID should automatically eliminate the players that ID from the cut.

 

#round6matters

#lastgamesmatter

Edited April 10, 2016 by ViscerothSWG

[Kdubb 6,642]

 

 

Here's the answer: WIN all your games and you don't have to worry about it. Sounds like a lot of Boohooing from the players that were almost there. NEWS FLASH: Not everyone gets a trophy. 

Another point: You can ID into a Top Cut, but you can't ID after that.

it'd be one thing if the players lost and we're boohooing about not making the cut but players who could have made it because they won didn't make it because the the other 4 tables said nah we aren't gonna have any lisers here and let anyone jump into the top 8

 

They should have WON their earlier games.

 

And those who got to ID last round should have WON their last games too, no? Is not that last round just as valuable and telling as those earlier games? If you mix up the timing of the match ups, and instead have the final round match ups at, say, round 3, the top 8 ends up totally different because there is no way they take IDs in the 3rd round. Timing should not be a determinant of who makes the cut.

[arkhamssaber 246]

Here's the answer: WIN all your games and you don't have to worry about it. Sounds like a lot of Boohooing from the players that were almost there. NEWS FLASH: Not everyone gets a trophy. 

Another point: You can ID into a Top Cut, but you can't ID after that.

it'd be one thing if the players lost and we're boohooing about not making the cut but players who could have made it because they won didn't make it because the the other 4 tables said nah we aren't gonna have any lisers here and let anyone jump into the top 8

Do you even hear yourself? Those people lost twice before the final round. They're boohooing about missing the cut because people that started better wouldn't let them pass.

[jimmius 1,785]

As has been said before, if you go to a tournament, and you want to win, you'd be stupid not to take an ID if it meant you'd make the cut. The rule might be rubbish, unfun, a NPE etc. but so long as it exists, and is legal to do so, there's no point shooting yourself in the foot by not taking one when the opportunity arises.

 

By all means, you personally may choose to play the game instead out of some ethical obligation, but judging people who take an ID as somehow morally beneath you (for doing literally nothing wrong) is nothing short of obnoxious.

[AtomicFryingPan 1,825]

Here's the answer: WIN all your games and you don't have to worry about it. Sounds like a lot of Boohooing from the players that were almost there. NEWS FLASH: Not everyone gets a trophy. 

Another point: You can ID into a Top Cut, but you can't ID after that.

it'd be one thing if the players lost and we're boohooing about not making the cut but players who could have made it because they won didn't make it because the the other 4 tables said nah we aren't gonna have any lisers here and let anyone jump into the top 8

They should have WON their earlier games.

Yeah but maybe things didn't go there way. Maybe the top 8 who weren't undefeated should have WON there last game instead of being insecure in there ability to WIN a game and actually earn the dice?

[Panax 96]

Every one who says "win all your games" should have their own single elimination tournaments. Drive four hours, have some cold dice against a opponent's hot dice, then 40 minutes later drive four hours home. Might change their mind's about late wins meaning something.

[nikk whyte 3,868]

You SHOULD be slamming Pheaver. It's up to the leaders of the community to take an actual stance on something instead of waffling around it by saying its bad but I'm gonna do it anyway.

I'm not slamming pheaver because for I don't like personally calling out people on forums and he could have been actually using the rule for it's implied intended purpose- to give those that would automatically make the cut a break before the cut. If, however, he and the other top 8 decided to ID for other reasons- to save themselves the possibility of losing and not making the cut, or they all decided together to ID (thus colluding and breaking the rules), then he should be held in just as much contempt as any of them.

The reason doesn't matter. Stand up for what you believe in. Edited April 10, 2016 by nikk whyte

[Rawling 345]

Lets see, I paid money to play, there are prizes involved, the venue allowed the results to be manipulated, That sounds like fraud.  If I were one of the players that was cheated out of an opportunity to make the finals I would demand my money back and maybe contact the authorities to see if it does constitute fraud.  Every player deserves to have a fair opportunity, is this what fly casual means???

You had the same opportunity to win four or five of your first five matches and then do whatever you want for the sixth.

[AtomicFryingPan 1,825]

As has been said before, if you go to a tournament, and you want to win, you'd be stupid not to take an ID if it meant you'd make the cut. The rule might be rubbish, unfun, a NPE etc. but so long as it exists, and is legal to do so, there's no point shooting yourself in the foot by not taking one when the opportunity arises.

 

By all means, you personally may choose to play the game instead out of some ethical obligation, but judging people who take an ID as somehow morally beneath you (for doing literally nothing wrong) is nothing short of obnoxious.

I just find the hypocrisy funny. If this was people rules lawerying in the final match, or flying people off the board, or not letting actions because a token wasn't there, not letting people use kalus because they didn't say it right at the start of the round, then people would be absolutely crusicfiyng them because there waac jerks and what happened to fly casual and why are they such bad sports.

[arkhamssaber 246]

I hate that I need to keep posting in here defending IDs. I would hate to see FFG cave in and change back.

[Q10fanatic 348]

Here's the answer: WIN all your games and you don't have to worry about it. Sounds like a lot of Boohooing from the players that were almost there. NEWS FLASH: Not everyone gets a trophy. 

Another point: You can ID into a Top Cut, but you can't ID after that.

it'd be one thing if the players lost and we're boohooing about not making the cut but players who could have made it because they won didn't make it because the the other 4 tables said nah we aren't gonna have any lisers here and let anyone jump into the top 8

Do you even hear yourself? Those people lost twice before the final round. They're boohooing about missing the cut because people that started better wouldn't let them pass.

Just because they started better doesn't mean that they were actually better. The top players and podcasts often refer to competitive tournaments as marathons. If I'm leading in a marathon at mile 21, I don't get to declare that no one can pass me while I take a break because I've already established I'm the best marathon runner. People only compare results after the completion of the entire race; here that would be ALL of Swiss.

Another example, this is like a class in school. If I am at the top of the class right before the final exam, I can't declare that I get the best grade and simply not show up for the exam. I might miss the exam, but if somebody behind me out works me, they may end up with a better grade.

[AtomicFryingPan 1,825]

I hate that I need to keep posting in here defending IDs. I would hate to see FFG cave in and change back.

They're going too. This is getting more hate and attention than the mat fiasco. They don't want to have an opportunity where a top table is being steamed on the last round and people just set up ships then shake hands.

[jimmius 1,785]

 

As has been said before, if you go to a tournament, and you want to win, you'd be stupid not to take an ID if it meant you'd make the cut. The rule might be rubbish, unfun, a NPE etc. but so long as it exists, and is legal to do so, there's no point shooting yourself in the foot by not taking one when the opportunity arises.

 

By all means, you personally may choose to play the game instead out of some ethical obligation, but judging people who take an ID as somehow morally beneath you (for doing literally nothing wrong) is nothing short of obnoxious.

I just find the hypocrisy funny. If this was people rules lawerying in the final match, or flying people off the board, or not letting actions because a token wasn't there, not letting people use kalus because they didn't say it right at the start of the round, then people would be absolutely crusicfiyng them because there waac jerks and what happened to fly casual and why are they such bad sports.

 

 

Can you not see how those two things are different? 

[ScottieATF 2,864]

As has been said before, if you go to a tournament, and you want to win, you'd be stupid not to take an ID if it meant you'd make the cut. The rule might be rubbish, unfun, a NPE etc. but so long as it exists, and is legal to do so, there's no point shooting yourself in the foot by not taking one when the opportunity arises.

 

By all means, you personally may choose to play the game instead out of some ethical obligation, but judging people who take an ID as somehow morally beneath you (for doing literally nothing wrong) is nothing short of obnoxious.

I just find the hypocrisy funny. If this was people rules lawerying in the final match, or flying people off the board, or not letting actions because a token wasn't there, not letting people use kalus because they didn't say it right at the start of the round, then people would be absolutely crusicfiyng them because there waac jerks and what happened to fly casual and why are they such bad sports.

I don't see the hypocrisy. You'd have some people skewering them and you'd have others shrugging and saying that's how the rules work, just like people are doing now over this.

Regardless of the issue, you are going to have some people act as if someone has been implicit in the Holocaust (yes there was a Nuremberg reference earlier in this thread) for playing within the rules if they personally don't like those rules, while others are just accept that is how the rules work and it's fine so long as people play within them, even if they want the rule changed latter.

[AtomicFryingPan 1,825]

As has been said before, if you go to a tournament, and you want to win, you'd be stupid not to take an ID if it meant you'd make the cut. The rule might be rubbish, unfun, a NPE etc. but so long as it exists, and is legal to do so, there's no point shooting yourself in the foot by not taking one when the opportunity arises.

 

By all means, you personally may choose to play the game instead out of some ethical obligation, but judging people who take an ID as somehow morally beneath you (for doing literally nothing wrong) is nothing short of obnoxious.

I just find the hypocrisy funny. If this was people rules lawerying in the final match, or flying people off the board, or not letting actions because a token wasn't there, not letting people use kalus because they didn't say it right at the start of the round, then people would be absolutely crusicfiyng them because there waac jerks and what happened to fly casual and why are they such bad sports.

 

Can you not see how those two things are different?

how are they different? They are all completely legal things that we can do?