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Grayfax

Direct Hard Counter to Contracted Scout in Wave 9!

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I'm sorry but I cannot find specifics of the 3 jumpmaster build anywhere.  Lots of references to it in lots of threads, but I'm curious what it actually is.  It sounds like it's 3 jumpmasters with ordnance loadouts?  Can someone explain what the big deal with it is, cuz I haven't played in a few weeks and I have a feeling I'm going to see this soon when I go the club in a few days.  THanks!

Contracted Scout with Deadeye, R4 Agromech, Guidance Chips, Extra Munitions, and Proton Torpedoes. 34 points. Plasma Torpedoes for 33 points.

Use Deadeye to fire off the torpedoes with a focus, which gives you a target lock which you can use to modify your dice. With Proto Torpedoes it's a 90something% chance of 4 hits, with Plasma Torpedoes it's like 75% of 4 hits, and that's not counting the potential extra shield they do.

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A good meta can always be better.

The best meta would be this one, sans Palp Aces. That's the real NPE power list IMO.

This meta sans palp aces would be a completely different meta.

One where you could fly ships with 2 attack dice and not autolose to a Fel player.

 

Suddenly le wild UUU appears!

PW 2 

 

then you take out the torp and bring them down

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A good meta can always be better.

The best meta would be this one, sans Palp Aces. That's the real NPE power list IMO.

This meta sans palp aces would be a completely different meta.

One where you could fly ships with 2 attack dice and not autolose to a Fel player.

"Lol, squishy tie fighters."

- 6-0 torp scouts

At least the TIEs can damage the scouts. They can also inexpensively bid to PS 3+.

Against a Fel player my opponent will just convert 3 blanks to an evade, or god roll on defense the one or two chances I have per game to block Fel and shoot him.

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Will it be a counter to Ordnance, or specifically the ludicrous almost guaranteed 12 damage that a 3 ConScout list can do? Because I'm not sure how to counter one without the other. I love me some Torp-boat Y-Wings, and I don't want Ordnance to die out just as it got here (though 3 Scout is probably excessive)

Edited by jimmius

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A good meta can always be better.

The best meta would be this one, sans Palp Aces. That's the real NPE power list IMO.

This meta sans palp aces would be a completely different meta.

One where you could fly ships with 2 attack dice and not autolose to a Fel player.

"Lol, squishy tie fighters."

- 6-0 torp scouts

At least the TIEs can damage the scouts. They can also inexpensively bid to PS 3+.

Against a Fel player my opponent will just convert 3 blanks to an evade, or god roll on defense the one or two chances I have per game to block Fel and shoot him.

I gotta figure out how to convert three blanks to an evade...

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Hmmmm, My guess would be an ept or mod that does something along the lines of..

 

Interceptor -Mod - 2pts

When this ship is the target of a

[Missile] or [Torpeado] and the launcher

is in your arc roll this ships attack dice.

For each [hit] or [Crit] reduce the

incoming attack by the same

amount.

 

This makes head on clashes less profitable, but if you  get on the flank or rear, you still are effective

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A good meta can always be better.

The best meta would be this one, sans Palp Aces. That's the real NPE power list IMO.

This meta sans palp aces would be a completely different meta.

One where you could fly ships with 2 attack dice and not autolose to a Fel player.

"Lol, squishy tie fighters."

- 6-0 torp scouts

At least the TIEs can damage the scouts. They can also inexpensively bid to PS 3+.

Against a Fel player my opponent will just convert 3 blanks to an evade, or god roll on defense the one or two chances I have per game to block Fel and shoot him.

I gotta figure out how to convert three blanks to an evade...

 

Palpatine, Autothrusters, Evade. #JustFelThings

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A good meta can always be better.

The best meta would be this one, sans Palp Aces. That's the real NPE power list IMO.

This meta sans palp aces would be a completely different meta.

One where you could fly ships with 2 attack dice and not autolose to a Fel player.

"Lol, squishy tie fighters."

- 6-0 torp scouts

At least the TIEs can damage the scouts. They can also inexpensively bid to PS 3+.

Against a Fel player my opponent will just convert 3 blanks to an evade, or god roll on the one or two chances I have per game to block Fel and shoot him.

I gotta figure out how to convert three blanks to an evade...

Palpatine, Autothrusters, Evade. #JustFelThings

Point of order: the evade token doesn't change a blank, it adds an evade die.

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A good meta can always be better.

The best meta would be this one, sans Palp Aces. That's the real NPE power list IMO.

This meta sans palp aces would be a completely different meta.

One where you could fly ships with 2 attack dice and not autolose to a Fel player.

"Lol, squishy tie fighters."

- 6-0 torp scouts

At least the TIEs can damage the scouts. They can also inexpensively bid to PS 3+.

Against a Fel player my opponent will just convert 3 blanks to an evade, or god roll on the one or two chances I have per game to block Fel and shoot him.

I gotta figure out how to convert three blanks to an evade...

Palpatine, Autothrusters, Evade. #JustFelThings

Point of order: the evade token doesn't change a blank, it adds an evade die.

 

 

Would that mean that spending an evade token is modifying dice?  Not actually changing the dice thrown, but adding an evade die?  If so, then evade tokens suck when Omega Leader is locked onto you and shooting.

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A good meta can always be better.


The best meta would be this one, sans Palp Aces. That's the real NPE power list IMO.
This meta sans palp aces would be a completely different meta.

One where you could fly ships with 2 attack dice and not autolose to a Fel player.
"Lol, squishy tie fighters."
- 6-0 torp scouts

At least the TIEs can damage the scouts. They can also inexpensively bid to PS 3+.
Against a Fel player my opponent will just convert 3 blanks to an evade, or god roll on the one or two chances I have per game to block Fel and shoot him.

I gotta figure out how to convert three blanks to an evade...
Palpatine, Autothrusters, Evade. #JustFelThings

Point of order: the evade token doesn't change a blank, it adds an evade die.

 

 

Would that mean that spending an evade token is modifying dice?  Not actually changing the dice thrown, but adding an evade die?  If so, then evade tokens suck when Omega Leader is locked onto you and shooting.

 

Yes, spending an evade token is modifying dice.

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What ever they come up with, I think something that could effect the ept slot on the scouts, something that could disable an ept for a turn could not only hurt the jump masters combo, but it could effect aces too, for all of you that are sad about palp aces.

Although I have to say I love the palp aces build and if something countered that, it would probably kill the empire, because aces have always been it's thing. Sure it's really really good, but that's why Boba crew is out there. If they nerf or counter soontier, then we may never see interceptors on the table, if they nerf or counter omega then you won't really see tie fo's either. Whisper just got viable again with Palpatine/agent kallus, and we'll they just fixed the tie advanced last year. So I really think doing too much against it will be too damaging, plus I really enjoy flying those ships, and they are in no way easy mode, one bump, one time landing on a rock, getting stressed from abilities, there are plenty of ways this list can lose from just one mistake at the wrong time. Plus soontier is always flying at 2 speed, super predictable and blockable.

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I find the worship of this game and it's supposed balance to be wildly annoying. Don't get me wrong, it's generally fun, but it is NOT well-balanced from even a fundamental level. I REALLY wish they would actually playtest this game thoroughly rather than having wave after wave of broken or useless and then a fix, but I guess that's the business model that drives sales. Broken stuff sells out (e.g., no one would have bothered with StarVipers if not for Autothrusters, no one would have cared about K-Wings without TLT), and then you can package a "fix" later for the over-costed/useless stuff to sell even more. Literally every meta has been defined by the most imbalanced units in the game rising to the forefront and then an over-adjustment to direct counters to that imbalanced build. I, for one, am really tired of the yo-yo effect and how, roughly, at any given time 80%+ of my collection is useless in a competitive list. It would really be novel if there were, say, a dozen archetypes at a given time rather than 3 that rock/paper/scissor each other. At the cancer tourney tomorrow, let me assure you, I will be overjoyed to play nothing but Jumpmasters, Palp Aces, and TLTs. YAY.

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A good meta can always be better.

The best meta would be this one, sans Palp Aces. That's the real NPE power list IMO.

This meta sans palp aces would be a completely different meta.

One where you could fly ships with 2 attack dice and not autolose to a Fel player.

"Lol, squishy tie fighters."

- 6-0 torp scouts

At least the TIEs can damage the scouts. They can also inexpensively bid to PS 3+.

Against a Fel player my opponent will just convert 3 blanks to an evade, or god roll on defense the one or two chances I have per game to block Fel and shoot him.

I think you should consider that maybe DICE are an NPE for you.

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One of the cool things of being a Patreon supporter is hearing the Scum and Villainy Podcast early (you can sign up here).

In the interview you should be able to hear in a few days, Alex Davy says there is something coming in Wave 9 that will be a "direct hard counter to Jumpmasters". Which starts all of the whirly things going in my mind in what could be coming!

Man, I love this game and the forces behind it! What is coming in Wave 9?!?

Edit: Listened again, and his exact quote has been fixed from Contracted Scout to Jumpmasters.

YAY, because ******* Palp Aces isn't even more broken.

Exactly what this game needed, let's nerf the build that is responsible for the best meta this game has ever had.

Okay lol, my hyperbole is unneeded at the moment because we don't know what it would be yet.

I've enjoyed every game where I've used Jumpmasters and I've enjoyed every game facing them. The meta is great right now.

Dengar is great, Scouts are too cheap for their statline and possible upgrades.

They are also probably shutting Rebel Aces and perhaps even the whole Rebel faction down too hard. That is if we only look at Hoth. I must admit that Scouts are doing well a bit everywhere but not really dominating the meta. This is totally okay.

Still if they turn out to keep Rebels down for too long they need to go, no regrets. Because then its not a balanced meta anymore!

A large majority of people prefer Acewing over Joustwing, minus you and Warpman. And FFG knows that. This does not mean that no generics have aplace inlists, but that these spam lists should not and will probably not doninate the meta for too long.

I am surprised though that Davy reacts that quickly and directly to the happenings at Hoth. So they must have realized that Jumpys are even more OP than most of us even think because this has never happened before!

Edit: Nobody talked of nerfing Jumpmasters. Just about a direct counter to them.

I am also a little surprised that he mentions wave 9 having said counter, no word about Rebel Veterans. I would have speculated that Rebels would get an X-Wing based list that simply can out-joust Jumpys easily, which would have ended the build where it stands!

Edited by ForceM

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that sounds incredibly dumb, actually

you can't go around with situational, direct hard counters to very specific builds without releasing incredibly situational upgrades with very little overall utility. Do too much of that and you risk turning the game into match-up rng rather than an actual game about maneuvers

Assumes that this direct hard counter has limited value otherwise. Unjustified.

justified

direct hard-counter implies the upgrade was designed to limit the opposing build in some manner

I am not sure what upgrade you could make to counter scouts, whose strength lies in their (just recently viable) ordnance, which is kind of unique atm. It sure as **** isn't their plinky PWTs, for which we already have thrusters

I'm expecting autothrusters for secondary weapons including cannons. This would also directly nerf TLT. All this means is you shouldn't spam 3 scouts with ordnance. You need to diversify your list. Edited by Gungo

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A good meta can always be better.

The best meta would be this one, sans Palp Aces. That's the real NPE power list IMO.

It's obvious you like scouts however tournament data disagrees with your opinion. Honestly something like autothrusters but works for all secondary weapons that any ship can use in the modification slot would do wonders to improve the game by preventing people from spamming scouts with missiles. Heaven forbid you diversify. The palp aces at least use three different ships and have like 8 varients. You have shuttles including yorr, interceptors like Jax and Fel, advanced usually vadar, tie fo like omega leader, adv prototype like inquisitor, and tie ln including wampa. Honestly you are lumping nearly every imperial ship into aces which simply is wrong. Why not just say you hate imperial builds. Or is it just the fel, vadar, palp mobile you hate so much? Because that list alone hasn't done better then 3x uboats. Edited by Gungo

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A good meta can always be better.

The best meta would be this one, sans Palp Aces. That's the real NPE power list IMO.

It's obvious you like scouts however tournament data disagrees with your opinion. Honestly something like autothrusters but works for all secondary weapons that any ship can use in the modification slot would do wonders to improve the game by preventing people from spamming scouts with missiles. Heaven forbid you diversify. The palp aces at least use three different ships and have like 8 varients. You have shuttles including yorr, interceptors like Jax and Fel, advanced usually vadar, tie fo like inquisitor, and tie ln including wampa. Honestly you are lumping nearly every imperial ship into aces which simply is wrong. Why not just say you hate imperial builds. Or is it just the fel, vadar, palp mobile you hate so much? Because that list alone hasn't done better then 3x uboats.

 

You haven't met PGS before, have you? He is an NPE.

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Like I said I hope its autothrusters but for all secondary weapons with no range 3 bonus. This directly nerf people who spam TLT or Ordnance. However comes at the cost of a precious mod slot. It's obvious ffg wants you to diversify lists and they want you to rely on maneuvering. Not spamming turrets or cannons or missles. Diversify your lists!!! Because spamming the same ship just shows its broken.

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 Alex Davy says there is something coming in Wave 9 that will be a "direct hard counter to Jumpmasters". 

 

Edit: Listened again, and his exact quote has been fixed from Contracted Scout to Jumpmasters.

 

Did they ask, or did he say, when the wave 9 announcement is coming?

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 Alex Davy says there is something coming in Wave 9 that will be a "direct hard counter to Jumpmasters". 

 

Edit: Listened again, and his exact quote has been fixed from Contracted Scout to Jumpmasters.

 

Did they ask, or did he say, when the wave 9 announcement is coming?

 

Nope... quite the opposite.... well, he said something along the lines of ~ whenever it is released this year, or next~ and went on to say he has given up on trying to guess when Wave releases will actually be released.

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