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ReallyoldGM

Use of Triumph

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Quick question,

 

In a practice session last night a freighter was eluding TIEs as it left a plant and was preparing to jump. (Solo practice session, classic situation)

 

I estimated the freighter needed 3 or so rounds at top speed to clear the gravity well and gave the navigator a base of 3 rounds to complete the astronav calculations. The navigator screwed up his first roll (failed but no threat) so I just extended the time it was taking to 4. 

 

The TIEs closed the first round but where unable to draw closer the 2nd. They were just out of range when the 3rd round started and the PILOT, not the navigator, rolled 2 Triumph on her piloting skill. 

 

I saw this as a clear indication that the chase was over, she dusted these guys. BUT, under the circumstances they were waiting for the navs to complete, not her really do anything special flying other than avoiding the TIES. But TWO TRIUMPH!

 

If I had been playing a real game I would probably have utililzed the roll to allow them to just disengage and be gone. Maybe the navigator was reading the computer wrong and it suddenly completed its computations and made the jump unexpectedly or something.

 

Would it be appropriate for her roll of the dice to effect the situation through the actions of another character?

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There are a couple of ways I'd think it would be appropriate to use the pilot's triumphs to help the navigator.

Maybe the navigator was under incredible pressure because of the chase, but the pilot did such a great job getting them out of the jam that the navigator was able to let any concern go and fly through the computations stress-free.

Another might be that the pilot noticed the navigator missed something while inputting data to make the calculations. "No! You forgot to carry the one! Do I have to do everything on this boat?!?"

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First thing I'll say about Triumph is they aren't as rare and special as the book fluff makes them sound.  Useful?  Absolutely.  But in combat, one of the things a Triumph can do is upgrade the next person's dice check...like a DP flip without the pool shifting.  Once your players are rolling 2 or 3 yellow dice, they'll come up a lot (roughly 1:6 or 1:4).  So I'd be wary about giving them too much importance.  They aren't an "I WIN!" result for the player.

 

But for your specific example, sure, I'd end the chase and be done.  Partly this is because it seems that if the TIEs can't catch up, the danger is passed, and if there's no danger you're just mechanically waiting for the right result on the dice.  So I'd say the pilot makes a supremely clever move dashing around a group of asteroids, and the TIEs have no idea where they've gone, which gives the navigator all the time they need to make the right calculations and jump.  It doesn't have to directly apply to the navigator anymore because that part of the scene has no tension anymore.

 

I'd still give the navigator one last roll just to determine how well the upcoming trip goes.  Failure/Threat/Despair could mean anything from pirates on the way, to jumping into a heated battle, to hull damage or something fried temporarily on the ship.

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If a Triumph can kill a minion and the are only two TIEs following the ship, you could easily say "I juke around a bit of space debris and the trailing fighters fail to follow me."

 

BOOM, two dead TIEs and clear skies to astrogate from.

Edited by Desslok

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I'd totally let those triumphs work towards the navigators check, sure, why not?  If the player wants to spend both of them on that single action, go for it.

 

I'd probably say "Ok, so you hear the Navigator cursing at the computer, you reach over, and smack the terminal with the back of your hand.  It lets out some chirps and beeps, and the red indicator light flips to green!  You lurch into the back of your chair as the hyperdrive kicks in, leaving the TIE's in your wake!"

 

I personally get very flexible with triumph/advantage in large numbers.   I personally don't care about "accurate usage of the resources" and want to have a fun time for me and my players.  And if I see one of them, with that spark of inspiration in their eye, look at me from across the table, and say "I want to spend my 2+ Triumph/3+ Advantage to do *Insert Crazy Awesome thing*"  I'm all for it.   It's my game, I want it to be fun and awesome, and denying them the chance to do that is directly contrary to that goal.  So sure, whatever works and is fun, bust mostly fun.

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"Just as you reach a safe distance to perform the jump to lightspeed, an Imperial freighter drops out of hyperspace directly in front of you.* Your quick reflexes allow you to dodge it just barely, the incoming tie fighters pursuing your ship, on the other hand, cannot react in time and crash into the freighter, giving you enough time to escape."

 

*This is usually the part where one of my players interrupts me, complaining: "Why does something bad happen when I roll so well?!"

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Considering how unlikely it is to roll double Triumphs (1:144 chance if I remember how dice probability works) I'm comfortable spending them to give the players a huge advantage in whatever they're attempting.

Recent example: during their infiltration of an Imperial moon base, one of the characters sliced into the central computer to lock down the TIE fighter hangar--that way when they stole a prototype ship from another hangar those TIEs couldn't launch to pursue them.

He failed his Computers check, but generated double Triumph on the roll. After much guffawing from the players and consideration from myself, I said something like "Whoops, that wasn't the hangar lockdown command...that was the emergency vent command for the TIE fighter fuel tank."

So when they stole the ship the fighter hangar wasn't locked down, but none of the TIEs could take off because their fuel cells were dry and there was nothing left in the hangar reserves.

Edited by Jace911

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Pretty sure the odds are better if you have more proficiency dice. 3 or more would make it far more likely

I'm dusting off old statistics lessons, but IIRC the odds of rolling two Triumphs on two twelve siders (Let's say Triumph=12) is 1/12*1/12=1/144 or .7%. The odds of getting two Triumphs on three dice increases to roughly 1/5 to 1/4 if I'm doing math right.

So with a pretty significant investment in a skill characters can expect to hit double Triumph less than a quarter of the time. :V I think that merits making sure those occasions are special rather than just "hey, neat".

Edited by Jace911

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Pretty sure the odds are better if you have more proficiency dice. 3 or more would make it far more likely

I'm dusting off old statistics lessons, but IIRC the odds of rolling two Triumphs on two twelve siders (Let's say Triumph=12) is 1/12*1/12=1/144 or .7%. The odds of getting two Triumphs on three dice increases to roughly 1/5 to 1/4 if I'm doing math right.

So with a pretty significant investment in a skill characters can expect to hit double Triumph less than a quarter of the time. :V I think that merits making sure those occasions are special rather than just "hey, neat".

 

Less than a quarter of the time?  You say this like rolling dice isn't something you do all night while playing this game.   I don't know about your game, but in a 3-4 hour session at my table, my guys roll probably 10 checks, give or take combat (which increases it significantly).  So by your math, (which I'll trust to be correct, I've never bothered with statistics like that really), that's roughly 2 times a night.   That's pretty often in my book.  And actually, that's 4 times a night, because they're each making roughly the same number of checks, so both of them would have the chance to roll those double triumphs.   Seems pretty common to me  :P

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Dice are a fickle thing. Statistics will tell you one thing about how they roll, but real life doesn’t always follow the laws of statistics on a day-to-day moment-to-moment basis.

So, yeah — on two Triumph, I’d be inclined to make that pretty special.

Now, if experience teaches that they do that every single game, and frequently multiple times per game, then it’s going to become more routine, and I may dial back a bit.

But I would try to let experience be my guide. Well, that and the “rule of cool”.

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Pretty sure the odds are better if you have more proficiency dice. 3 or more would make it far more likely

I'm dusting off old statistics lessons, but IIRC the odds of rolling two Triumphs on two twelve siders (Let's say Triumph=12) is 1/12*1/12=1/144 or .7%. The odds of getting two Triumphs on three dice increases to roughly 1/5 to 1/4 if I'm doing math right.

So with a pretty significant investment in a skill characters can expect to hit double Triumph less than a quarter of the time. :V I think that merits making sure those occasions are special rather than just "hey, neat".

Less than a quarter of the time?  You say this like rolling dice isn't something you do all night while playing this game.   I don't know about your game, but in a 3-4 hour session at my table, my guys roll probably 10 checks, give or take combat (which increases it significantly).  So by your math, (which I'll trust to be correct, I've never bothered with statistics like that really), that's roughly 2 times a night.   That's pretty often in my book.  And actually, that's 4 times a night, because they're each making roughly the same number of checks, so both of them would have the chance to roll those double triumphs.   Seems pretty common to me  :P

Again, though, that's a quarter of the time with skills they've invested at least three ranks in--my group is four sessions into our campaign and off the top of my head I can't think of any skills they've bumped up that high, and they've been getting 15xp each session (Mostly going into padding other skills and acquiring talents). For us double Triumph really is a rare occurrence, so I treat it as special; and when they improve their skills and start achieving it more often I'm not going to be cheap and reduce the impact just because they're rolling it more often, that's why they invested points in their skills in the first place!

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Pretty sure the odds are better if you have more proficiency dice. 3 or more would make it far more likely

I'm dusting off old statistics lessons, but IIRC the odds of rolling two Triumphs on two twelve siders (Let's say Triumph=12) is 1/12*1/12=1/144 or .7%. The odds of getting two Triumphs on three dice increases to roughly 1/5 to 1/4 if I'm doing math right.

So with a pretty significant investment in a skill characters can expect to hit double Triumph less than a quarter of the time. :V I think that merits making sure those occasions are special rather than just "hey, neat".

Less than a quarter of the time?  You say this like rolling dice isn't something you do all night while playing this game.   I don't know about your game, but in a 3-4 hour session at my table, my guys roll probably 10 checks, give or take combat (which increases it significantly).  So by your math, (which I'll trust to be correct, I've never bothered with statistics like that really), that's roughly 2 times a night.   That's pretty often in my book.  And actually, that's 4 times a night, because they're each making roughly the same number of checks, so both of them would have the chance to roll those double triumphs.   Seems pretty common to me   :P

Again, though, that's a quarter of the time with skills they've invested at least three ranks in--my group is four sessions into our campaign and off the top of my head I can't think of any skills they've bumped up that high, and they've been getting 15xp each session (Mostly going into padding other skills and acquiring talents). For us double Triumph really is a rare occurrence, so I treat it as special; and when they improve their skills and start achieving it more often I'm not going to be cheap and reduce the impact just because they're rolling it more often, that's why they invested points in their skills in the first place!

 

See my group has done the opposite and poured most of their xp into leveling up skills. I've got 3 players with a 4 in agility, and all of them roll two to three proficiency dice. One of them rolls 4 yellow on a stealth check! My hiredgun rolls 3 proficiency dice whenever she hits something with her force spike. So yeah, I see a good number of triumph(s) in both single and double score. I am starting to lay on the setback dice now, which I'm assuming will cause them to start investing more into their talents to remove them. 

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I guess I really don't see a problem with treating double Triumphs as a major boon even though skill leveling will eventually make them more common, because I see that as the system working as intended.

 

When you get really good at something you succeed with style more often. Who knew? :V

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Two triumph imo is alot, even if it occurs regularly.

 

Player 1 pilot, player 2 navigator.

 

Player 1 rolls said result.

GM: Suddenly Player 2 has to hold on tight and almost falls into the maintenance pit from the wild maneuvers and hears the faint sound of an explosion (this is star wars, there IS sound in space, shut up nerd) followed by silence. As you ask the pilot what happened to those tie fighters he says: *points at Player 1*

Player 1: (if I now my pilot PC, he would probably say) I listed lazily to the left. (best version I could find in under a minute)

Edited by derroehre

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Pretty sure the odds are better if you have more proficiency dice. 3 or more would make it far more likely

I'm dusting off old statistics lessons, but IIRC the odds of rolling two Triumphs on two twelve siders (Let's say Triumph=12) is 1/12*1/12=1/144 or .7%. The odds of getting two Triumphs on three dice increases to roughly 1/5 to 1/4 if I'm doing math right.

So with a pretty significant investment in a skill characters can expect to hit double Triumph less than a quarter of the time. :V I think that merits making sure those occasions are special rather than just "hey, neat".

 

A single triumph happens around 20% of the time with 3 dice, but double triumph is just under 2%.  Even if you can manage 5 yellow dice, it only rises to 5.3%.  Double-Triumph should always be a substantial reward.

Edited by uhhsam

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Pretty sure the odds are better if you have more proficiency dice. 3 or more would make it far more likely

I'm dusting off old statistics lessons, but IIRC the odds of rolling two Triumphs on two twelve siders (Let's say Triumph=12) is 1/12*1/12=1/144 or .7%. The odds of getting two Triumphs on three dice increases to roughly 1/5 to 1/4 if I'm doing math right.

So with a pretty significant investment in a skill characters can expect to hit double Triumph less than a quarter of the time. :V I think that merits making sure those occasions are special rather than just "hey, neat".

 

A single triumph happens around 20% of the time with 3 dice, but double triumph is just under 2%.  Even if you can manage 5 yellow dice, it only rises to 5.3%.  Double-Triumph should always be a substantial reward.

 

 

This is why I changed majors from math to art. :V

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