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LemonyFresh

Death Star vs 2 Ion Cannons & X-Wing without Plans

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If the Rebels have a leader, they are forced to retreat their X-Wing. If they don't have a leader, an infinite loop has been created.

The only fix I can think of is that the Death Star needs to receive some type of immunity to ion cannons.

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It seems an unlikely scenario, but going by the manual, it would seem both combatants pass until the rebel player either reveals the death star plans or retreats the x-wing, ending the combat.

If there are no death star plans to reveal--and I know this seems heavy handed--I think the x-wing should be forced to retreat, since it's the only legal action available.

But realistically, who sends a death star into a system with two ion cannons and no ground assault?

Funny idea though

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But realistically, who sends a death star into a system with two ion cannons and no ground assault?

 

Possibly this is the result of multiple rounds of combat and these are all the forces that are left.

 

A rule that the DS always rolls a minimum of 1 die would solve the problem.

 

I'm not sure I see a reason why the Rebels would be FORCED to retreat if they didn't want to for some reason.

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But realistically, who sends a death star into a system with two ion cannons and no ground assault?

I'm not sure I see a reason why the Rebels would be FORCED to retreat if they didn't want to for some reason.

I do. Like I said it's heavy-handed, but it's the only legal move that ends the stalemate. The death star cannot retreat. Once the x-wing is gone, combat ends and the death star likely leaves (lest it remain in a system where it's completely neutered)

So until the x-wing retreats, combat is in an infinite loop and the game cannot proceed. So it's either that or call the game done and put it away. That enough reason?

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This is the closest to an infinite loop that I have seen in a FFG game in a long time.  They are usually pretty good about that.

 

Good catch LemonyFresh.  I hope this works it into the FAQ.

 

This is potentially worse than than Destroyed System concerns (although will happen less often), because with Destroyed Systems, you can make a ruling or flip a coin and move on.  With this one, you can actually be in a situation where there is no legal move to resolve, can't retreat Death Star, can't retreat X-Wings.  Plus unlike destroyed systems, the game may actually hinge on what happens if the Rebel Base is in the space and the Imperials have a Super Laser in the queue.

 

 

 

 

But realistically, who sends a death star into a system with two ion cannons and no ground assault?

I'm not sure I see a reason why the Rebels would be FORCED to retreat if they didn't want to for some reason.

I do. Like I said it's heavy-handed, but it's the only legal move that ends the stalemate. The death star cannot retreat. Once the x-wing is gone, combat ends and the death star likely leaves (lest it remain in a system where it's completely neutered)

So until the x-wing retreats, combat is in an infinite loop and the game cannot proceed. So it's either that or call the game done and put it away. That enough reason?

 

 

The bigger issue is what if they do not have a leader and can't retreat.  That being said, if I was FFG, I would rule that the X-Wings get a free retreat without a Leader.  Its just something that's currently not covered in the rules.

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The bigger issue is what if they do not have a leader and can't retreat

Good point. That would make the situation into a true infinite loop. Alternately, I suppose both players could agree to end combat and leave all their units in place until one side either leaves or brings in reinforcements.

Am imagining a lone squadron of x-wings flying lazy circles around an ionized death star, with no idea how to go about attacking it and imperial engineers unable to get the superlaser online.

"Launch TIE Fighter wings!"

"Sir, we don't have any."

*Sigh*

Edited by KoalaXav

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Whatever leader that moved the death star into this system would generate tactics cards that could destroy the x-wing.  While it is possible, I could play this game everyday for the rest of my life, and it never occur.

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Assuming that said tactics cards weren't already burned in prior rounds of combat.  It's definitely an unlikely scenario, but also one that could use a rules revision as there is no correct resolution if there isn't a Rebel leader in-system.

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Whatever leader that moved the death star into this system would generate tactics cards that could destroy the x-wing.  While it is possible, I could play this game everyday for the rest of my life, and it never occur.

This scenario is very possible. You will be very unlikely to begin combat like this, but this could be the aftermath of 4 rounds of battle.

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I vote for hostile co-existence.

The DS can't retreat, there is no reason to force the X-wing to retreat (and it may not be able to without a leader present anyways).  Even with a rebel leader I see no reason to force the retreat.  They can't do any harm, both sides simply are forced to co-exist.

Both sides could now try to escalate the situation by getting reinforcements, or the Imps could more the DS away next turn.  The rebels could try to hold out for the card they need, or the Imps could try to blow up the planet (finishing off the Ions and allowing them to kill the X-wing).

 

The planet is still blockaded though as an enemy unit is in system, so no building or deploying.

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I do not understand the infinite loop you guys are talking about here?

 

The death star would eventually destroy the X-wing once it rolls an explosion which can be applied to any color of health unit. 

 

then the rules State

Combat is only resolved if both players have units in the same theater

 

Since the rebels have no fleet and the imperials have no ground units there is no combat and no infinite loop. 

 

Yup I see what you are saying now.  Missed the part about the 2 ion cannons. 

 

Why wouldn't you want to destroy the death star would be my question. 

Edited by KAGE13

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I do not understand the infinite loop you guys are talking about here?

The death star would eventually destroy the X-wing once it rolls an explosion which can be applied to any color of health unit.

then the rules State

Combat is only resolved if both players have units in the same theater

Since the rebels have no fleet and the imperials have no ground units there is no combat and no infinite loop.

Yup I see what you are saying now. Missed the part about the 2 ion cannons.

Why wouldn't you want to destroy the death star would be my question.

Double Ion cannons prevent the Death Star from rolling ANY dice. and you cant destroy the death star without the plans. Edited by rowdyoctopus

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The more I think of it, FFG should just rule that the Rebel fighters should either retreat (if able) or be destroyed.  Seems about right fighting the death star.

 

Let me ask you guys this.  Ignore the Ion Cannons for a few minutes.  If you are in a situation with the Death Star versus rebel ship and the rebels can't retreat and doesn't have the Death Star Plans, would you resolve the combat until the end or would you just say yep the Rebs all die?  I would go with the 2nd.

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Let me ask you guys this.  Ignore the Ion Cannons for a few minutes.  If you are in a situation with the Death Star versus rebel ship and the rebels can't retreat and doesn't have the Death Star Plans, would you resolve the combat until the end or would you just say yep the Rebs all die?  I would go with the 2nd.

Me too but only if the empire had no other ships present. If there's other ships, the dice matter (rebels need a chance to destroy them) but otherwise, yes. There's only one possible outcome.

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no I would play it out, because you could still draw cards, and there are cards that you retreat ignoring restrictions.  Most likely the fighter would die, but there is still a chance to save it. 

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no I would play it out, because you could still draw cards, and there are cards that you retreat ignoring restrictions.  Most likely the fighter would die, but there is still a chance to save it. 

That's only for ground forces.  The equivalent for space "No Escape" prevents your opponent from retreating.

.

Also "Escape Plan" only allows you to ignore transport restrictions for retreat, it doesn't let you sidestep the requirement to have a leader present, so it wouldn't help you in this situation.  All other rules for retreat are in effect.

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The more I think of it, FFG should just rule that the Rebel fighters should either retreat (if able) or be destroyed.  Seems about right fighting the death star.

 

Let me ask you guys this.  Ignore the Ion Cannons for a few minutes.  If you are in a situation with the Death Star versus rebel ship and the rebels can't retreat and doesn't have the Death Star Plans, would you resolve the combat until the end or would you just say yep the Rebs all die?  I would go with the 2nd.

No reason to play it out, you know how it's going to end.

But that's apples to oranges.  You're talking about a fully operational battlestation.  One under Ion cannon distress is not operational, it's not able to do any damage to that ship, or a fleet of ships.  Why would you run away from a disabled battlestation?

 

If there are no nearby Imperial reinforcements that could come in and cause a problem, why not hold the station hostage and bring in my own reinforcements.

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Another issue is the solution must cover the fact that this situation is only an indeterminate state if Rebels "declare" somehow that they do not have / will never play the Death Star Plans.  So if the solution is something like "Rebels must retreat", it must be accompanied by how and when it must happen.  Something like "After any round in which Empire has no ships other than Death Star and Rebels haven't played Plans and blah blah blah...."

 

I'd think instead, the rule will be something like a 1-die minimum if death star is involved.  However, that would lead to silliness like 1 die having to be rolled repeatedly to take out an entire force of ships (which is why they probably added the rule that Transports must retreat or die if left alone).

Edited by LemonyFresh

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