Fly Casual - does it still run?

[Shanturin 267]

Hi folks!

 

In recent months X-Wing in my country (Poland, that is) has saw an incredible surge of popularity. Game nights that hosted 8-10 players are now swarming with up to 30 people regularly,and new communites are popping up almost weekly. Mainly it's due to the new movie, the fall of GW systems in Poland* and incredible work done by a few people who dedicated themselves to promote the system. And while having more people to play with is awesome, there are some issues connected with it that are less... joyful.

 

There is a visible shift in mentality, as more nad more highly competitve, long-time players come to X-wing from other systems. As it grows, the community itself becomes more competitive, win-oriented as opposed to fun-oriented, thus also a little less friendly toward new or casual players. Of course, i'm exaggerating a bit, but better to be safe than sorry

 

Knowing and noticing this, while also sticking with X-wing from its begginings, I remeber the intiative back on these forums called "Fly Casual", advocated by Doug Kinney and others, promoting good sportsmanship and fun above all. Here comes my question: does anyone know any contact to people who ran that campaign? I wish to promote the same ideals here at my country. I know the part of the camping was printed t-shirts with it's logo and I'd like to ask for permission to use it - becouse frankly, shipping those t-shirts from across the ocean in not so large amounts would make them a bit pricey...

 

Anyway, do you see similar problems in your communities? How do you deal with them? Any advice or opinion is welcome!

 

Fly Casual!
Paul

 

* - as they say, X-Wing is now the best game with square bases

 

[Fuzzywookie 2,145]

No

[heychadwick 11,357]

I fully understand what you are saying.   I'm not sure if it was more than just a slogan, though.  

 

I can say that myself and a couple of others are starting an X-wing podcast that is going to be based on Casual X-wing.  That means non-tournament 100 pt death match X-wing.  We are slowly getting it off the ground as we are perhaps a little too casual.  Still, watch out for it and let us know what you think!

[Admiral Deathrain 5,232]

I fully understand what you are saying.   I'm not sure if it was more than just a slogan, though.  

 

I can say that myself and a couple of others are starting an X-wing podcast that is going to be based on Casual X-wing.  That means non-tournament 100 pt death match X-wing.  We are slowly getting it off the ground as we are perhaps a little too casual.  Still, watch out for it and let us know what you think!

As I am packing my stuff to replay the GR-75 campaign I can only say: I am looking forward to that podcast a lot!

[Floody 3]

Our scene in Ireland is quite small (maybe couple of hundred max, 40-50 tournament playing folks) and most people know each other so it’s got a great atmosphere.

 

I played a lot of GW games before, including at the ETC, and the Polish teams were notorious for being a nightmare to play against for 40k, fantasy and Flame of war. They were aggressive and confrontational and the FoW team was sanctioned for cheating at last year’s event and then stormed off at the closing ceremony.

 

I’ve met plenty of Polish guys over here who are great to play any games with.  Maybe it’s more a local problem in Poland?

[heychadwick 11,357]

 

I fully understand what you are saying.   I'm not sure if it was more than just a slogan, though.  

 

I can say that myself and a couple of others are starting an X-wing podcast that is going to be based on Casual X-wing.  That means non-tournament 100 pt death match X-wing.  We are slowly getting it off the ground as we are perhaps a little too casual.  Still, watch out for it and let us know what you think!

As I am packing my stuff to replay the GR-75 campaign I can only say: I am looking forward to that podcast a lot!

 

 

We are going to try to do a test recording this weekend.  First run down with Skype, mics, and recording.  If all goes smoothly, we should record next weekend?  

 

First episode will just talk about Casual X-wing and about the Star Wars IP.  Last bit is about the new missions in Ghost and Jumpmaster.  

[hardbap 147]

 

 

I fully understand what you are saying.   I'm not sure if it was more than just a slogan, though.  

 

I can say that myself and a couple of others are starting an X-wing podcast that is going to be based on Casual X-wing.  That means non-tournament 100 pt death match X-wing.  We are slowly getting it off the ground as we are perhaps a little too casual.  Still, watch out for it and let us know what you think!

As I am packing my stuff to replay the GR-75 campaign I can only say: I am looking forward to that podcast a lot!

 

 

We are going to try to do a test recording this weekend.  First run down with Skype, mics, and recording.  If all goes smoothly, we should record next weekend?  

 

First episode will just talk about Casual X-wing and about the Star Wars IP.  Last bit is about the new missions in Ghost and Jumpmaster.  

 

 

Really looking forward to this!

[Panic 217 1,857]

I started as a Magic the Gathering player, and fell out of that eventually, then picked up this game, and when i bring the same attitude from X-wing to MTG the players are usually so caught off guard by me allowing them to undo a mistake they did they dont, because they think i'm playing at an angle, like I know their other play and i have the perfect counter to it. so they end up saying "thanks but no thanks i'll live with my mistake"

[Uumbuku 220]

I was discussing this with one of our main TOs the other week. That with the growth in numbers playing the game that the fly casual attitude will slowly give way to competitive and adversarial behaviour amongst the players. It comes down to community and knowing the players around you. With larger numbers it is less likely you will know most players and the game becomes more formulaic and business like. Added to this the number of hawks that attend every major tournament in order to win swag will increase and they show up to win. This causes tension with the locals when out of towners show up and 'steal' their communities prizes. I know it's a simple case of the hawks are better at the game and they win by superior flying and tactics but that won't matter to the disgruntled local who feels cheated out of their chance at a win or a top prize. 

 

Myself I am fairly new to the game but even in the last six months I have noticed the number of tournaments are up, the number of players are up, and that tickets for premier events are selling out months in advance. I am glad I got into the game when I did as I certainly felt the fly casual attitude in our region. I'm just wondering how long it will last.

[gamblertuba 5,647]

Fly Casual has always been over-costed by 1-3 points but it really suffers in the current meta.  Without an ability to adjust position and an overall low pilot-skill, Fly Casual is just no longer competitive.  Of course, you can still use Fly Casual in less formal events but its lack of efficiency is really showing.

Edited April 6, 2016 by gamblertuba

[heychadwick 11,357]

@Uumbuku:

 

As a counter point, I've been playing since Wave 1.  I know a decent number of players who have dropped out of the scene due to the competitive nature of the game.  They like the game and it's Star Wars, but if you don't keep up with all the latest and greatest, you can just lose every game.  It takes the fun out of it for a lot of people with all the new crazy that is out these days.  

 

I've taken to playing the Heroes of the Aturi Cluster, epic games, and missions with a lot of people.  I've drawn in a number of people who had left the game with more casual X-wing.  

[drjkel 1,365]

Luckily, most of the best players locally seem to strongly believe in Fly Casual. I wouldn't go to tournaments much if it became overly competitive, it's just a game to me.

[EastCoast 1,349]

Fly casual needs a boost... or barrel roll action to stay competitive.

[zerotc 1,011]

The biggest X-wing league in Toronto doesn't allow players to use a named pilot more than once per season. Also you can't have a list with the same number of generics multiple times.

 

Because of those rules, we have a very Fly Casual environment. It's generally understood that the list you'll face won't be super competitive and I think it eases the tension when someone shows up with Fel's Wrath just for kicks.

 

We have a great group in Toronto and I think the league is a major reason for it.

[Strikesback 147]

As a TO its hard when your a competitive player to not instill the competitive parts in the game. I try and run all kits besides the store championship as a fly casual events. Really it's hard because the people who played before I joined kind of have left, because of the competitive nature I have brought. In the end we have many more people then we use too. It's going to happen this way. Can't please everyone.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Strikesback

[NeverBetTheFett 1,515]

I've rarely play in a tournament game where someone hasn't cheated. At the recent Hoth open, players were forced to share a set of dice because one guy was accused of using loaded dice. At Worlds I had to call a TO in almost every game due to shady activity. That and collusion happens a lot too. The best advice is if you're not prepared for shady activity, it's best not to play competitive (except maybe for seasonal store kits). Leagues like PTL Toronto allow you to show up with fun lists you've always wanted to try and pilots you don't often use. It promotes flying casual. 

[Micanthropyre 991]

The other two competitive games I play are MtG and pool(billiards) and while those communities don't really overlap at all there are a lot of similarities between them and "fly casual" the mindset.

 

My own views are kind of split. In local FNM games or pool league nights, myself and most of the communities are pretty relaxed. Accidentally touched the cue a little bit on a practice stroke? Don't worry man, just take your shot. Tapped your mana wrong? No big deal, you caught it fast enough, put it how you like. 

 

Come tournament time though, I prefer to play by the competitive rules.  In Magic I'll verbalize the phase I'm in (or think the game is in) unless I know my opponent understands my deck and all the little phases of the game. In pool I'll be clear about what my intended shot is going to be. For me, at least, this does not detract from the "fun" of the game.

 

X-Wing isn't quite at the same point though, it's still a pretty young game and people aren't used to the phases or the etiquette. Tournament Magic is probably my favorite Magic to play. I don't understand the "adversarial" context that people seem to have for more competitive play. I understand to a point that as the community becomes larger the meta will become more defined, and people don't like having to netlist in order to win. Recently I played Redline and two Sigma phantoms and lost, played against the same guy with my SC Whisper Palp list and crushed the game. The room for "competitive creativity" is quickly disappearing, but that is more because the game is maturing, not because people from the wrong side of the tracks are starting to play. It is this way with literally every competitive game on the planet: with enough time the game will be figured out to a point where the best things to do become known, and in order to compete you must know them and use them. Magic has gotten to the point where some pros are suspicious that Wizards is using the banlist to artificially inject uncertainty into the Modern format because the game too rapidly exits the creative stage. They also recently changed their Standard format rotation to essentially twice a year, and I think it is for the same reasons: the dominant decks are discovered too quickly and reign supreme for too long. 

 

There are some great ideas for maintaining the creativity and variance out there that can survive the world of competition. The community poll for the ship that must be included is great. The Warmahordes two-list (where uniques can only be in one list) format is great. The League rules above where a unique can only be used once a season is great. But you need to make those rules, you can't just expect the entirety of the community to adhere to playing substandard lists all the time on their own accord because of some nebulous "fly casual" rule. The rules keep the playing field level.

[Shenannigan 648]

The thrift about fly casual is that it's always an individual choice and can't be placed on others. You have to go to a tournament expecting yourself to play casual and no one else and that's when the system work. It should never be about forcing your opponent to play sloppier. Or should never be an excuse to play sloppy yourself.

Fly casual can only be about oneself and that's all to work.

[GroggyGolem 2,848]

Never believed in or promoted Fly Casual myself. The initial post of it was a jab at players who played with a competitive mindset and made it seem like playing casually made one somehow superior.

Over the years since that ideal started, people in the community perverted it for their own means and took things to the extreme, expecting their opponent to be lenient every time they made a mistake, etc... rather than living with their mistakes and learning from them.

If you want to promote a good community, host some casual game nights and show the fun atmosphere and attitude one can have while playing. Talk with the newcomers about maintaining an atmosphere of fun. Find a couple people who are regular that are willing to promote a relaxed attitude with you.

[zerotc 1,011]

If you want to promote a good community, host some casual game nights and show the fun atmosphere and attitude one can have while playing. Talk with the newcomers about maintaining an atmosphere of fun. Find a couple people who are regular that are willing to promote a relaxed attitude with you.

 

Yea pretty much this. I think you need to be overt if you want to create a casual environment.

 

Create a Facebook group or something called "Casual X-wing Gaming League- Poland" and the right people will come to you.

 

Come up with some casual gaming rules. The one unique pilot per season rule works great in Toronto, but maybe stuff like your opponent gets to pick a ship (not pilot) that you have to run.

 

The super-competitive players might still show up just to crush some souls, but I doubt they'll have as good as a time.

[pcgamerpirate 499]

I always thought "fly casual" was our version of "don't be rude"

Edited April 6, 2016 by pcgamerpirate

[heychadwick 11,357]

I always thought "fly casual" was our version of "don't be rude"

 

It does, but I'm starting to think Casual X-wing is going to become a "thing".  

[hardbap 147]

Fly casual != fly sloppy.  I strongly believe good communities are built when everyone is trying to play the game to the best of their abilities and according to the rules of the game/event. You lift each other up by trying to play better. Mind you this has nothing to do with competition or being a rules lawyer. You can play a solid, clean game without being competitive or nit picky. Go ahead, try it! Trust me on this one. Try to be a good teacher each game. Try to be a good student each game. 

 

I think pcgamerpirate is pretty close with his definition. I've always felt it was more like "Be excellent to each other!".

Edited April 6, 2016 by hardbap

[hardbap 147]

 

I always thought "fly casual" was our version of "don't be rude"

 

It does, but I'm starting to think Casual X-wing is going to become a "thing".  

 

 

I hope so. I really do. Before I bailed on Warmahordes there was a "Hardcore Casual" movement that never took off. I hope this does become a thing in X-wing.

[Jyico 897]

To the OP:  Fly casual still does exist.  But you need to do things to foster this attitude while still being competitive.  

 

Our store changes up how prize kits are done (not store champs and above, just the seasonal kits):  

 

All prizes are split up so that everyone playing that night will get something.  10 people?  10 piles of stuff.  Usually its the alternate art pilot card + alt art upgrade card, or dice bag + alt art upgrade, or tokens + alt art upgrade, etc.  

1st place gets the medal and one choice of piles

2nd place gets 2nd choice

etc

 

It works pretty well because someone may already have a pilot card, and just wants tokens, or a bag, or a poster, or something.  But everyone gets something.

 

At the Hoth open I saw something I've never seen in X-Wing and it was great how it changed the dynamic of the room.  On Sunday there was a "team" tournament, 150 points, 1.5 hour rounds.  At the start when prizes were announced, the TO said "there will be a sportsmanship prize".  I hated Attack Wing for doing this, but seeing the change over the weekend made that tournament the most fun of all the tournaments.  Every table was laughing, having a blast, etc.  The team that won the sportsman ship award helped the other team play the game to the original's detriment, but that doesn't mean there weren't MANY examples of this.  It also didn't mean that there wasn't some pretty intense competition at the top tables.  It just meant everyone had more fun, knowing that there was a prize for it.

 

As an aside... I can't wait for your podcast Heychadwick!

Edited April 6, 2016 by jonnyd