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bolog

Cloaking VS Scourge Kamikaze

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So this came up in the game we just played.

The skirmish was a Wraith vs Scourge. The Wraith had a Cloaking card and the Scourge had it's Kamikaze card. Neither unit's Attack value was able to exceed the others Defense value so neither was destroyed.

The way we played it was that since neither were destroyed in the battle the Scourges ability triggered destroying both but then the Wraiths Cloaking meant it went back to it's base in the adjacent area. In the end only the Scourge was destroyed.

Was this the right play?

 

Thanks

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For starcraft Original i think both will be destroy (i'm really not sure)

cuz

 

Scourge :

End of destroy unit step

If your FLU was not destroyed

and vs. Flying FLU

destroy both FLU

 

Cloaking”
When a unit with the cloaking keyword is destroyed in a
skirmish,
it is not actually removed from the game board (as
a unit typically is when destroyed). Instead, at the end of the
“Destroy Units and Discard Cards” step of skirmish resolution,
the unit withdraws. This means that the controlling
player may immediately remove the unit from the battle and
move it to a friendly or empty area on the active planet. If
no such area exists, or if he places the unit in an area such
that it exceeds the area’s unit limits, it is destroyed.

 

7. Resolve Skirmishes


Skirmishes are resolved one at a time. The attacker chooses
which skirmish to resolve first. Once that skirmish is
resolved, he chooses which skirmish to resolve next, and so
on. This continues until all the skirmishes of the battle have
been resolved.
To resolve a skirmish, follow these steps:


Reveal cards


Compare attack and health values


Destroy units and discard cards

 

So i think scourge destroy wraith outside skirmish, that's why cloaking don't trigger (again i'm really not sure)

 

but for broodwar

both unit will not destroy

according to faqs

 

Sacr ifice Ability
In order to clarify, the Sacrifice ability should read as follows:
A front-line unit with this ability (listed on its Faction Sheet)
is automatically destroyed during the Resolve Skirmishes
step of a battle regardless of whether or not the opponent
has sufficient strength to destroy it. This ability is ignored
if the unit with the sacrifice ability is unable to attack both
the opposing front line unit and supporting units (due to its
attack capability). This is also ignored if the opposing unit
has cloaking and a friendly detector is not present.

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Cloaking protects units destroyed ONLY during resolving skirmishes (quote from page 39.):

Remember that the cloaking ability only allows a unit to
withdraw if it is destroyed during a skirmish. Cloaking
therefore does not allow a unit to withdraw during the
Resolve Splash Damage step of a battle.

Step "Destoy units and discard Combat cards" is a part of resolving skirmishes, so that Wraith's Cloaking vs Scrouge is triggered, both in Brood War expansion and without it (but in Brood War Scrouge would have to have sufficient strength to destroy Wraith).

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//^

^

^

 

End of destroy unit step

is it in destroy unit step ? (i don't know is it before or after destroy unit step)

again i'm really not sure about this

 

 

but broodwar change sacrifice mechanic

make everything really clear

 

in broodwar sacrifice unit always has high attack (9   8 )

but wether opponent strong enough or not it will die too

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lastthai said:

End of destroy unit step

is it in destroy unit step ? (i don't know is it before or after destroy unit step)

again i'm really not sure about this

As I said, it must be a part of that step. Another quote:

Skirmishes are resolved one at a time. The attacker chooses
which skirmish to resolve first. Once that skirmish is
resolved, he chooses which skirmish to resolve next, and so
on. This continues until all the skirmishes of the battle have
been resolved.


To resolve a skirmish, follow these steps:
A. Reveal cards
B. Compare attack and health values
C. Destroy units and discard cards

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cyb3k said:

(but in Brood War Scrouge would have to have sufficient strength to destroy Wraith).

 

Ok, so are there other cards for the Scourge unit in "Brood War"?  If not with the Scourge having only 3 carts that have it as the primary unit and none of these 3 cards haveing an Attack value how would the Scourge ability ever trigger?  Why would you ever build them?

 

 

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bolog said:

cyb3k said:

 

(but in Brood War Scrouge would have to have sufficient strength to destroy Wraith).

 

 

 

Ok, so are there other cards for the Scourge unit in "Brood War"?  If not with the Scourge having only 3 carts that have it as the primary unit and none of these 3 cards haveing an Attack value how would the Scourge ability ever trigger?  Why would you ever build them?

 

 

 

scourge 3 cards was replace by

9/6 8/6 9/5  if my memory serve me well

and it is now cost 2 gas

 

why you would not build them

 

they can crash even battle cruiser

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I still not clearly understand.

BW FAQ document said:

"Sacrifice Ability
...

This ability is ignored
if the unit with the sacrifice ability is unable to attack both
the opposing front line unit and supporting units (due to its
attack capability). This is also ignored if the opposing unit
has cloaking
and a friendly detector is not present."

So, if Scourge have enough power to destroy Wraith, but Wraith haven't enough power to kill Scourge and have Cloaking ability. In this case Wraith should retreat, but Scourge Sacrifice will not be triggered because Wraith is clocked?

Very strange situation... or I'm mistaken?
 

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to my understanding the scourge would kill the wraith with enough strength. however due to cloack sacrifice wont trigger and the scourge lives on while the wraith has to retreat. this makes no sense in a logical view, but in a game balancing..

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you are right

 

this is for broodwar only

 

scourge fly around but he can't see wraith so he don't

smash into something

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lastthai said:

bolog said:

 

cyb3k said:

 

(but in Brood War Scrouge would have to have sufficient strength to destroy Wraith).

 

 

 

Ok, so are there other cards for the Scourge unit in "Brood War"?  If not with the Scourge having only 3 carts that have it as the primary unit and none of these 3 cards haveing an Attack value how would the Scourge ability ever trigger?  Why would you ever build them?

 

 

 

 

 

scourge 3 cards was replace by

9/6 8/6 9/5  if my memory serve me well

and it is now cost 2 gas

 

why you would not build them

 

they can crash even battle cruiser

sorry it`s hard to destory the battle cruiser as, your Max STN is 9, and BC Max DEF is 10+1(repair or the iron ball) that`s mean you have to put 1 more support unit in this skiminsh. and! the scourge has no bounce when they are support unit…

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lastthai said:

you are right

 

this is for broodwar only

 

scourge fly around but he can't see wraith so he don't

smash into something

scourge see nothing to hit and wraith hide and then reteart, Zerg win this battel and control that area.

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pop2k3 said:

lastthai said:

 

bolog said:

 

cyb3k said:

 

(but in Brood War Scrouge would have to have sufficient strength to destroy Wraith).

 

 

 

Ok, so are there other cards for the Scourge unit in "Brood War"?  If not with the Scourge having only 3 carts that have it as the primary unit and none of these 3 cards haveing an Attack value how would the Scourge ability ever trigger?  Why would you ever build them?

 

 

 

 

 

scourge 3 cards was replace by

9/6 8/6 9/5  if my memory serve me well

and it is now cost 2 gas

 

why you would not build them

 

they can crash even battle cruiser

 

 

sorry it`s hard to destory the battle cruiser as, your Max STN is 9, and BC Max DEF is 10+1(repair or the iron ball) that`s mean you have to put 1 more support unit in this skiminsh. and! the scourge has no bounce when they are support unit…

what we want to say is, to kill a BC, Zerg has to spent to many GAS.

 

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Like all StarCraft threads, this is a necro, but I wanted to add a clear answer. This is for Brood War (never played just the original StarCraft):

 

Sacrifice unit (A) attacking Cloaked unit (B). Cases:

 

(1) A cannot attack B because of Flying/Ground capabilities. Result: Nothing is destroyed.

(2) A can attack B but does not have sufficient strength. Result: Nothing is destroyed.

(3) A can attack B and has sufficient strength. Result: B is destroyed. B's Cloaking allows it to withdraw and become un-destroyed.

 

In all three cases A and B survive, but in (3) the Cloaked unit is forced to withdraw.

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