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Skavenblight cards smaller than cards from core set...!

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 I'm surprised that no one has mentioned this yet, but today we built some decks using my newly-aquired skavenblight expansions, and much to my surprise, the Skavenblight cards are about 1mm smaller in each dimension than the core set cards.  This makes the cards easily identifiable within the deck, and makes the deck nearly impossible to shuffle properly.  

I don't use card sleeves, and have no intention of starting now, so I now have 3 sets of expansion cards that I can't really use.

There really isn't much more to say about this since nothing can be done to fix the existing cards, but I would like to hear from FFG on what the planned resolution is...

 

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 Some people have responded to the BGG thread about this, stating that THEIR cards are exactly the same.


 


And, I'm too lazy to check, but IIRC, I noticed no discrepencies when I got both the Core and the Battlepack on Wednesday.


 


There's a hypothesis right now stating that maybe the cards from the GenCon era print run were a little larger, and it was the following printrun that fixed it.

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Yeah, this seems to be (imho) a very isolated incident.  Sucks for whoever has the problem but FFG's Customer Support staff will take care of anyone with a problem, we all know that.  No worries.  :)

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Wytefang said:

Yeah, this seems to be (imho) a very isolated incident.  Sucks for whoever has the problem but FFG's Customer Support staff will take care of anyone with a problem, we all know that.  No worries.  :)

I would not call this an isolated incident.  The fact is - this is an ongoing trend with FFG releases.  When the A Game of Thrones card game went to the LCG system - the card stock quality dropped significantly.  The same thing happened with the recent Battlestar Galactica expansion.  The character cards are on weaker cardstock and not cut exactly as the base game.  At the end of the day there is no excuse for this problem to occur.  The production values should be consistent across the board.  Personally - I sleeve cards and while I am annoyed that my cards are not the same size, it will have minimal impact.

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Have you ever worked with foreign third-party vendors? You can give them your specifications, even outlining they use the same specs as your last order, and you can still end up with product that does not actually meet your specs.

As anyone who has worked with commercial printers before knows, a slight misalignment can cause numerous sheets to be cut wrong, so that even though  the proof you checked for approval was done correctly the released product can have some variance in it.

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dormouse said:

Have you ever worked with foreign third-party vendors? You can give them your specifications, even outlining they use the same specs as your last order, and you can still end up with product that does not actually meet your specs.

As anyone who has worked with commercial printers before knows, a slight misalignment can cause numerous sheets to be cut wrong, so that even though  the proof you checked for approval was done correctly the released product can have some variance in it.

Never mind foreign vendors, the same thing can happen with domestic vendors. And this is not just something that happens with FFG's games. The first two print runs of Magic were cut differently, later prints in a run can be slightly off-color, a game switching from one company to another will cause minor changes to the cards.

I can understand your disappointment about the card sizes, but if a mere 1mm size difference makes it that much more difficult to shuffle your deck, invest a few $$ and buy a set of sleeves. Not only will it make your shuffle easier, but it will protect your cards and keep them from having the wear and tear that destroys your cards over time.

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 Oh I know it can happen domestically, but contracts and customer service in the US often times makes some form of fix much easier (not to mention quality control is often a bit tighter).

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 An Update:

I wanted to to my due diligence prior to contacting FFG so that they would have some accurate information to act on, and I thought it might be helpful to share what I found here...

I compared the sizes of the cards in our 3 core sets, and they were all the same size. They were purchased at different times soon after the game was released, but from the same FLGS.

I opened my remaining 2 packs of Skavenblight cards and they were the same size as the first pack - that is to say smaller than my Core cards.

I then compared the Skavenblight cards to some CoC CCG cards and some CoC LGC expansion cards... Same size...

Finally I dug out some old Magic cards, and again the Skavenblight cards are the same size.

This pretty much points to my Core set cards being too big - they measure exactly 2.5" x 3.5", which is bigger than a 'standard' magic card on both edges (more so on the short side).

Good news for people that don't have screwy core set cards since they seem to have fixed the mistake in the expansions, but I've now gone from 120 bad cards to 660+... Anyway, I'm sure FFG will help me out.

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JerusalemJones said:

dormouse said:

 

Have you ever worked with foreign third-party vendors? You can give them your specifications, even outlining they use the same specs as your last order, and you can still end up with product that does not actually meet your specs.

As anyone who has worked with commercial printers before knows, a slight misalignment can cause numerous sheets to be cut wrong, so that even though  the proof you checked for approval was done correctly the released product can have some variance in it.

 

 

Never mind foreign vendors, the same thing can happen with domestic vendors. And this is not just something that happens with FFG's games. The first two print runs of Magic were cut differently, later prints in a run can be slightly off-color, a game switching from one company to another will cause minor changes to the cards.

I can understand your disappointment about the card sizes, but if a mere 1mm size difference makes it that much more difficult to shuffle your deck, invest a few $$ and buy a set of sleeves. Not only will it make your shuffle easier, but it will protect your cards and keep them from having the wear and tear that destroys your cards over time.

I'm not looking to get sucked into a flame war here, but I've about had it with the apologists (Not specifically targeting you, dormouse - you were just the last post for quote), so a few quick responses...

I have worked with, understand the issues with, etc etc 3rd party foreign vendors, but at the end of the day as the consumer, none of that is my problem.  It is reasonable to expect a minimum level of quality in a product that you have paid for, and I would claim that mis-cut cards does not meet that level.

A 'mere' 1mm size difference does not make it difficult to shuffle, it makes it impossible.  The smaller cards clump as your fingers don't make contact with them - its the basis of any number of magic tricks.

If anyone reading this is sure that a mis-cut is no big deal them, send me your cards and I'll clip the corners of of all of them - you can put them right back in the sleeves, so should be no problem.

As far as sleeves go, I have been playing CCGs since the beginning, have never used sleeves, and never will - just ask my beat-up old lotus.  If I play Invasion so much that I wear the cards out, I will buy more cards since I obviously got my full money's worth out of them.  It is as reasonable for me to dislike sleeves as it is for others to like them.

I'm impressed that Wytefang can so quickly and definitively determine that this is an isolated incident based on the huge sample size of people who post on these boards.  Certainly the most probable explanation is that in a large print run, a few packs worth of cards got mis-cut, all in the same way, and then the dies magically re-aligned.

Anyway, sorry - just need to get that off my chest.  Don't want to start a war.  Let me point out that I have not flamed FFG, nor claimed that I will never buy another product, or any of the other usual internet tantrum talk - just reported my version of the facts in hopes of getting some info from others.

 

 

 

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I have no issue with people being upset by this. I would be. I have no issue with someone wanting FFG to try and "make things right," I certainly believe they should make every attempt to do so. I was merely pointing out that this kind of problem happens in almost every industry frequently. It is the problem with outsourcing work rather than keeping it in house where you have explicit control over every step of production. You can blame FFG for out-sourcing, and blame them for not catching the problem earlier, and blame them for how they choose to handle this problem. That does not necessarily mean the ultimate problem was something they were ever capable of catching.

Sometimes sh!t happens, you have no control over it but it rains down you none the less. It sounds like by whichever means the miscut happened it was corrected during one of the print runs of the Core Set... I'm curious whether FFG was ever aware of the problem themselves or if it was something the printer kept on the DL (assuming that someone there caught it).

*shrug* Glad you aren't giving up the game, but I'm sorry you were affected.

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Well after returning from holiday festivities, I finally got a chance to compare my cards... and all of my Skavenblight cards are indeed smaller than my core set cards... ugh...

Guess it's time to e-mail FFG.

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My remarks about the amount of people affected by this was based on the feedback I've seen on the two main sites that discuss this game (BGG and FFG).  Of course we're all disappointed that you were affected by this - we wouldn't want it to happen to anyone among us, certainly.  That being said, posting an alarmist style forum post that seems to imply this might be a bigger issue isn't helpful either.

 

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Wytefang said:

My remarks about the amount of people affected by this was based on the feedback I've seen on the two main sites that discuss this game (BGG and FFG).  Of course we're all disappointed that you were affected by this - we wouldn't want it to happen to anyone among us, certainly.  That being said, posting an alarmist style forum post that seems to imply this might be a bigger issue isn't helpful either.

OK... In what way is making a post about the fact that my cards don't match in size making an "alarmist post"?  I wanted to know if it was just me (unlikely), everybody, or just some people.  Why do you feel the need to jump to FFG's defense in this matter?  I have never blamed FFG for the problem - I am well aware that printing problems occur and are out of the hands of the game companies.  I was very clear that I was just gathering info, not angry with anyone.  I'm sure FFG will make it right, and do not in any way encourage anyone to get alarmed.

So, anyway, your comments lead me to evaluate my posts - was I off base questioning your conclusion that this is an isolated incident?  Just for fun I did some counting...  How many reported they have a problem, how many don't.  I counted the posts on BGG separately from here as I'm not sure of the user cross-over other than myself and you (same name on BGG).   I'll even give you the posts that imply they don't have a problem without stating it (in parens).

BGG: Cards don't match: 6 posters.  Cards do match 2(2) posters.

FFG Forum: Cards don't match: 2(1) posters. Cards do match 3(1) posters.

I guess you can draw your own conclusions from these staggering sample sizes of 10 and 7...  I guess there's no need to look into this any further.

I wasn't going to get sucked in...  I wasn't going to get sucked in... I wasn't going to get sucked in...

 

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I agree it sucks that your cards were smaller, and I am sure you have contacted FFG by this point to let them know of your concerns.

However, I also think people are getting a bit too emotional in this thread and in their posts. Everyone has valid points. Now lets get back to enjoying the game.

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By alarmist, I was referring to the Subject Line sentences you've used and the fact that you've posted this at both BGG and FFG.  When I read a sentence that says, "Skavenblight cards smaller than cards from Core Set!!!!!!"  it comes across as alarmist-style posting.  Your subject implies that this is the case with all core sets and all skavenblight cards and your use of the exclamation mark also implies a certain tone, too.

To me, that's rather alarmist in tone and wording.  I'm sorry if my conclusion upsets you, I was simply reflecting on what I'm reading from  your posts.

As I've said before, no one is happy that you have received defective cards.  I hope that FFG can sort this out for you and asap.  :)

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Wytefang said:

"Skavenblight cards smaller than cards from Core Set!!!!!!"

 

That was funny.  You know.  When you modified his title to meet your argument.  It does seem pretty alarmist when you write it that way.  But in reality his title is "Skavenblight cards smaller than cards from core set...!" which is much less alarmist.  In fact it gives me the impression of someone stating a fact and being mildly surprised of that fact.

Just saying, I don't see this as alarmist at all, particularly when further on in the thread he actually details a series of experiments he has done on his time and effort to find and correct the problem.

Cheerio to the original poster. Unfortunatly i'm lazy and not checking my cards.  I don't care if they are a bit bigger or not, as i always sleeve them and will deal with it some time down the road.

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 Just realised that my Skavenblight cards are indeed smaller, and the stock feels slightly thinner and more shiny than the Core Set . . . but tbh I'm not particularly fussed. If someone can notice my 1mm deviation through a set of thick opaque sleeves I'd be more impressed at them than mad at FFG (and I'm the one already moaning about several design decisions in the battle pack cards :P)

To summarise: props to FFG for making an awesome game, please try to get sizes back on track by the end of the Corruption Cycle, kthnxbai :D

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arglor said:

Wytefang said:

"Skavenblight cards smaller than cards from Core Set!!!!!!"

 

That was funny.  You know.  When you modified his title to meet your argument.  It does seem pretty alarmist when you write it that way.  But in reality his title is "Skavenblight cards smaller than cards from core set...!" which is much less alarmist.  In fact it gives me the impression of someone stating a fact and being mildly surprised of that fact.

 

 

The exaggeration served to illustrate the point that THAT is how it came across.  I realize that not everyone will interpret the exclamation mark in the same fashion that I did, but I'd bet quite a few did.  For the record, however, the exclamation mark isn't used to show "mild surprise."  But again, each to his own.  I don't mind anyone posting that they discovered a problem like this, I was disappointed at getting griped at for not being as alarmed as the OP seemed to want us to be.  But like Toq said, it's really not worth fussing or arguing over.

If they're too small, so be it.  I'm pretty confident it won't be a huge issue for the majority of this game's fans and I'm also confident that FFG will address and/or fix the issue.

:)

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