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The new fate rule

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I'm not sure how many of you are actually basing your opinions on in game experiences, but I've played several games of the new FFG Talisman, and my group really enjoys the Fate aspect.

First of all, Fate allows the game designers another level to help ensure the balance between characters. I think its important that players all feel they have relatively the same chance of winning as anyone else, and by introducing Fate designers were given another tool to help balance the characters out. What other option is there, besides changing the characters into bland, generic copies of each other?

Secondly, Fate has created a tangible difference between Good and Evil. A couple of players mentioned this in the few games that we played. Good characters can regain health a lot easier, while Evil players are able to replenish Fate points. Its a minor difference, but it can have a major impact on how the game is played.

I think Fate also added a bit of a tactics and reduced the luck factor, just a bit. Its not a huge impact, but players now have a new level of decision making in the game. Do I lose this fight against the dragon, or do I reroll hoping for a 6? Stuff like that makes the game a little more interactive. In my experience, Fate was primarily used in player vs player conflicts. Having that edge against another player curtailed people from spending fate on every bad roll.

Fate also adds another mechanic that game designers can tap into later on in the game, helping keep replayability alive. There's already mention of negative or dark sided fate. What about spells that drain fate, or monsters that do Fate damage instead of life damage? Items/spells/character abilities powered by Fate points? I know the addition of these mechanics would make it harder for players to remove the Fate system from their game, but I think the possiblities for expansion could help balance out people's dislike for Fate.

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I have not read all posts as don't have enough time and quite a few posters use serif fonts. Seriously guys, lay off that, makes my eyes hurt.

 

To give some idea of where I come from, I have played 1st/2nd edition but a long time ago. 3ed online. Never played 4ed

Anyway, my 2p worth of house rules:

Mentioned before that I think are good

  • You cannot use fate in the inner region
  • You cannot use fate if you roll a 1 (I think there was something similar in 3ed that broke your sword/armour and made a 1 a really bad roll)
     

Ones I just thought up

  • If you re-roll the same number after using a fate token, the gods are angry at wasting their time and they take one life from you.
  • A fate token can be negated by another player using one of their fate tokens, in the same way as counterspell.
    Must be declared before the die is re-rolled.

 

This last one could make things quite nasty... gran_risa.gif

Would you use up a fate token that could save you later to stitch up someone else now?

Even better with more than 2 players, do you sit back and hope someone else steps in to block a re-roll ? You could leave it too late..

Part of the joy of Talisman was creating your own game via house rules.
Not played with it yet of course but I think it opens up the game for a more intersting alternate ways of playing. Looking forward to it.

 

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Carrion Prince said:

HallertauRogue said:

 

talismanisland has some great points!

She'd rather get the smack-down early on from a dragon or demon.

The kicker for her was that I got out of being toaded by the witch and on my re-roll I was granted all my fate back.  She thought that was quite cheap...and although I was happy I wasn't a toad I completely share her sentiment.

 

 

Not sure why someone would rather get smacked around early by dragons and demons but whatever floats your boat!

This may be a little presumptuous but throwing away an entire game mechanic based on one encounter during the game sounds like you're overreacting just a wee bit. What are the chances that you'll even draw the witch card during the game, and then roll a one, and then happen to have a fate available to reroll, then just by pure dumb luck you happen to roll the best outcome of the card? That's like one in a thousand, or even one in a million?

So you will never use fate again because there is a one in thousand chance of rerolling a toad at the witch? Does sound reasonable to anyone? sorpresa.gif

Presumptuous indeed.  So, I'm overreacting by not liking the new mechanics 100%?  Seriously, I'm not the one getting all fussy and bothered by the fact that a stranger and his wife prefer more of a challenge and classic Talisman rules.  Who's really overreacting here?

Remember, to each their own.  Your comments are exactly what talismanisland was speaking to.  No one here should feel the need to criticize or get all worked up over another person having house rules or not.  Talisman has ALWAYS been about tweaking the game to your liking and customizing the experience.  There is nothing wrong with that and no one here should feel so high and mighty that they feel Talisman should be played their way or the high way.

It also seems to be overlooked by you that we are in fact using fate and have played with it fully thus far.

FYI, I never said my wife preferred getting smacked around by dragons, etc.  I was saying that she was OK with the fact that if you happened to get into a difficult situation early on it was simply part of the game and one shouldn't try to weasel out of it with fate.  That's just our take on life in general...so I'm not surprised she felt this way about the game come to think of it.

You also completely misunderstand the reason why fate feels "too easy" at something like the witch.  (Probably why it sounds unreasonable to you...you got it backwards).  It is BECAUSE the chance of re-rolling the toad again is so rare that it feels sophomoric.  When someone gets toaded you WANT them to be the toad.  Not reroll and get out of it.  The chances of being toaded again on a fate are so slim, like you explained, that it essentially destroys the chances of bad things happening to you.

Besides, the full fate rule goes against a simple concept that MOST board games have had since the invention of baord games...you don't re-roll because you got screwed.  It is part of the majority of games out there that employ dice rolls...that's why it is being met with some resistance by many players.

I think you also misunderstood something else.  I never said I'm completely tossing the mechanic out like you said I did (although anyone who wants to should not be subjected to criticism by you or others).  In fact we will use it, but limit how it is replenished.  Like I said before, if the expansion fleshes fate out a bit more, we'll revisit hwo it works and quite possibly reincorporate it compeltely.

 

 

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Like others, I was a little dubious about fate but after playing a couple of games I am perfectly happy with it as were the others I played with.  Gave me quite a laugh when my girlfriend did reroll a toaded and still got toaded.  There are other bad results with the Witch and Random so its still a hard call whether to take a bad roll or not.

I've been playing the game for 20 odd years and I'm glad FFG is trying something new rather than just rehash the old sets

Geoff

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Carrion Prince said:

 

HallertauRogue said:

 

talismanisland has some great points!

I've been playing the game all weekend (1 big run that hasn't ended yet).  I actually got my wife to play with me.  She loves games, but typically couldn't be bothered with anything like Talisman.  On the bright side she really enjoys the game!  On the not-so-bright side she cannot stand fate.  In fact I assumed she'd really like the fate feature since she wasn't familiar with the game and would want a little bit of help the first play through or so.  NOPE!  She'd rather get the smack-down early on from a dragon or demon.  So for now, house rules are allowing you to use your fate, but not replenish it.  We'll assess the situation once the expansion comes out with the added fate components, but as of now it isn't fully implemented.  The kicker for her was that I got out of being toaded by the witch and on my re-roll I was granted all my fate back.  She thought that was quite cheap...and although I was happy I wasn't a toad I completely share her sentiment.

 

I was going to reply to talismanisland's post but HallertauRogue's comment brings the issue into even greater focus.

Let me you a true story and don't worry, I will try to make it as short as possible.

During a game of Talisman, one of the players was struggling to catch up. Let's call him Monk because that was the character he was playing. Everyone else had a good mix of cards and experience points. Due to bad rolls, bad card draws, and overall bad luck the Monk was rapidly falling behind. He started to turn it around by getting some powerful items then WHAM! Raiders swooped in and stole away his only hope of winning. The player was so distraught that he quit the game and went home. Now he hates the game and calls before coming over just to ask "are you going to play Talisman." If the answer is yes then he waits until we bring out Arkham Horror or any other game before he will join us.

My point is that some people refuse to play a game, or in HallertauRogue's case a certain game feature, just because they have ONE bad experience. Sure bad things happen to you in Talisman, but you just laugh it off and have fun. What is even more baffling to me is why HallertauRogue had the same hateful reaction as my friend when his experience actually HELPED his character!

I do not think that it is fair to judge a game based off of a bad experience from one card, or one reroll, or even one encounter.

 

 

Seriously, what is your problem with me (and in general)?  Two personally aggressive and attacking posts towards me (a complete stranger) simply because I feel fate makes the game a little easier.  Why do you even care how someone who you'll never meet plays a game?  You are also COMPLETELY wrong in saying tossed it out.  I HAVE NOT tossed the mechanic out.  I've played every game WITH IT 100%.  It also wasn't from one "bad experience".  In fact there were no "bad experiences" at all.  Just multiple times where players easily got out of a sticky situation because they used fate.  I merely gave an anecdote from 1 game by a new player who thought that the mechanic made things too easy.  My intent here was that most supporters of fate say it helps new players deal with the hard parts of the game.  I thought it interesting that a complete newb, who was helped in some cases by fate, still felt it made things a little too easy.  My comments were observational...that's all.

You also seem to be confusing the point of fate.  You said, "Sure bad things happen to you in Talisman, but you just laugh it off and have fun."  THAT IS EXACTLY my POINT!  Fate takes something bad that should just be laughed off and makes it go away.  Where's the fun in that?  It is fun when someone gets toaded.  It keeps things interesting.  If you can jsut get rid of them pretty easily with fate...it sucks some of the original dynamics out.

I also have no "HATEFUL reaction".  Relax man, take a deep breath and chill.  You are reading things into my completely bland comment on how even a new player thought fate made things a little too easy.  No hate here for anything, especially a freaking board game.

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