Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
starrius

damage decks

Recommended Posts

I've come to accept they'll hold off until some theoretical 'version 2.0' in the future. Note that this is entirely theoretical, though.

 

They tried an update with the Force Awakens set, but without changing the cards in the original box (and they've never updated a product after shipping it, even for explicit errata on reference cards), they're stuck with people able to buy into the hobby who would legitimitely have only one damage deck - the old one.

 

I suspect in the theoretical 2.0, there'd be a bunch of upgrade cards for pilots, a damage deck, and... eh, who knows. But I suspect they'll have a GPL-style rule that means that rule updates can be printed and supercede older reference cards without making the old stuff illegal; that way they can keep things from being so disjointed with the FAQ going forward.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 saying its a duplicate of something they have is BS. The only thing "duplicated" is some cardboard (and you don't NEED a new rule book if you have kept current on everything for 3 years).

It always amazes me when somebody can read an entire post and not understand a word of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...(and they've never updated a product after shipping it, even for explicit errata on reference cards)...

Wasn't the rule reference card for decloaking in the TIE Phantom expansion changed?

Another example would be the misprinted Kath Scarlet in Most Wanted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest *striker8

That so many people on this forum have no clue as to the greater scope of things says a whole lot about how oblivious people are to reality.

 

FFG could care less what the tournament crowd thinks, and barely cares what the far great number of casual players think. They pay attention to the distributors and retailers because that is where their bread and butter are.

 

So I'll break it down for those to oblivious or stuck in their own little world.

 

FFG made new starter with new damage deck while continuing to publish the existing starter right with it.

 

The distributors and retailers bought both starters in great quantity since Star Wars and this game sell very well.

 

 They then followed with their now rescinded "must use new deck" tournament ruling. 

 

The tournament player base danced with joy over the new deck and ruling and started telling every new player that they shouldn't buy the old starter because "you must have the new deck to play" according to their tournament standards ideology.

 

Distributors and retailers saw sales of their considerable stock of old starters dry up because no one was buying them due to the idea pushed by the tournament crowd that EVRYONE has to use the new deck and as such the old starter is worthless unless you want the ships.

 

Distributors and retailers voice their displeasure to FFG.

 

Someone at FFG realizes what they did was dumb since now they won't be able to sell the next couple of batches of the old starter they have already contracted to have made to the distributors and retailers.

 

FFG rescinds ruling on new deck. 

 

Sales of old starters come back up which makes the distributors and retailers happy and makes both them and FFG money.

 

End of story! The players concerns and complaints had next to no bearing, money on the other hand talks.

 

 

If that is to hard for some people to digest they're beyond hope.

 

And for those that think they can just start putting new decks in old starters and then reinstate the deck ruling it's not that easy and would result in people buying only the latest version of the old starter and leaving the distributors and retailers stuck with something they can't sell just like before.

Edited by striker8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

...(and they've never updated a product after shipping it, even for explicit errata on reference cards)...

Wasn't the rule reference card for decloaking in the TIE Phantom expansion changed?

Another example would be the misprinted Kath Scarlet in Most Wanted.

 

Wait, it was? I missed that then! Did they include versioning to tell them apart?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That so many people on this forum have no clue as to the greater scope of things says a whole lot about how oblivious people are to reality.

...

FFG made new starter with new damage deck while continuing to publish the existing starter right with it.

 

The distributors and retailers bought both starters in great quantity since Star Wars and this game sell very well.

 

 They then followed with their now rescinded "must use new deck" tournament ruling. 

 

The tournament player base danced with joy over the new deck and ruling and started telling every new player that they shouldn't buy the old starter because "you must have the new deck to play" according to their tournament standards ideology.

 

Distributors and retailers saw sales of their considerable stock of old starters dry up because no one was buying them due to the idea pushed by the tournament crowd that EVRYONE has to use the new deck and as such the old starter is worthless unless you want the ships.

 

Distributors and retailers voice their displeasure to FFG.

 

Someone at FFG realizes what they did was dumb since now they won't be able to sell the next couple of batches of the old starter they have already contracted to have made to the distributors and retailers.

 

FFG rescinds ruling on new deck. 

 

Sales of old starters come back up which makes the distributors and retailers happy and makes both them and FFG money.

 

End of story! The players concerns and complaints had next to no bearing, money on the other hand talks.

 

 

If that is to hard for some people to digest they're beyond hope.

 

And for those that think they can just start putting new decks in old starters and then reinstate the deck ruling it's not that easy and would result in people buying only the latest version of the old starter and leaving the distributors and retailers stuck with something they can't sell just like before.

 

You know something?  I don't think I've seen anyone who says one should NOT buy the original starter.  It may not be a required first purchase due to the FA starter but it is still something I believe most would recommend.

 

Now I will admit that the new starter DOES change the recommendations on the old starter but that is taking things from two starters down to one. Maybe that led to a drop in sales of the original starter box but then again simply having two different starters available already did that by giving people a second place to buy into the game from.  When you consider that the old and new starter sets are essentially in direct competition with each other it shouldn't have been a surprise to ANYONE when sales of the old starter went down.

 

Having reprints of the original starter set use the "new" damage deck is actually a pretty great idea.  FFG already updates cards in reprints so why not do the damage deck as well?  I'm not sure sellers would really be able to tell the difference and besides stock of the unrevised starters would be almost gone before the next batch of revised starters would be sent in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If $20 or even $40 for a full starter set is too much you are into the wrong hobby... Not trying to be rude but tournament players already bought out U boats around here on the first day before I even seen one... This is a collectible game with meta changing at every wave and if u want to compete you have to keep up and I dont know anyone who would not have both sets now. Same could be said for other cards - putting one copy in a blister or packing imperial cards with rebel ships is kind of similar too...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

...(and they've never updated a product after shipping it, even for explicit errata on reference cards)...

Wasn't the rule reference card for decloaking in the TIE Phantom expansion changed?

Another example would be the misprinted Kath Scarlet in Most Wanted.

 

Wait, it was? I missed that then! Did they include versioning to tell them apart?

 

I don't think it is easy to see what version of Most Wanted you have - apart from just looking at the card!

 

Someone else should confirm what happened with the TIE Phantom.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

...(and they've never updated a product after shipping it, even for explicit errata on reference cards)...

Wasn't the rule reference card for decloaking in the TIE Phantom expansion changed?

Another example would be the misprinted Kath Scarlet in Most Wanted.

 

Wait, it was? I missed that then! Did they include versioning to tell them apart?

 

I don't think it is easy to see what version of Most Wanted you have - apart from just looking at the card!

 

Someone else should confirm what happened with the TIE Phantom.

 

Newer printings do have the corrected card in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That so many people on this forum have no clue as to the greater scope of things says a whole lot about how oblivious people are to reality.

FFG could care less what the tournament crowd thinks, and barely cares what the far great number of casual players think. They pay attention to the distributors and retailers because that is where their bread and butter are.

So I'll break it down for those to oblivious or stuck in their own little world.

FFG has said on multiple occasions that they do look at the forums and tournament data as indications of the balance of the game and the desires of its players and make decisions about further game design off that data. So your premise is already wildly off target.

Obviously, the financial considerations are the most important factor--FFG isn't going to try to put themselves put of business to try and please the masses. But to say that the entire organization top to bottom cares soley and exclusively about profits is not only naive, but demonstrably untrue.

The CR-90 Corvette for epic contains the C-3PO crew card. During the height of Fat Han's popularity, I guarantee you many people bought that $90 ship just to get their hands on ol' Goldenrod. People making that decision is FANTASTIC for FFG's profits. Why then, oh cynical poster, would they then include 32 copies of a C-3P0 alternate art card in every single store championship kit? They just flooded the market with a previously very valuable card and guaranteed that they would probably never sell another Corvette for that reason ever again. If profits are their only consideration, then the only conclusion is that they are fiscally inept. Considering their success, I find this unlikely.

I understand that you're new to this site and perhaps are new to the game as well, but if you're going to come out of the gate with grand standing and condescension, it's best to be sure you're on firm ground.

Edited by Sekac

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If $20 or even $40 for a full starter set is too much you are into the wrong hobby... Not trying to be rude but tournament players already bought out U boats around here on the first day before I even seen one... This is a collectible game with meta changing at every wave and if u want to compete you have to keep up and I dont know anyone who would not have both sets now. Same could be said for other cards - putting one copy in a blister or packing imperial cards with rebel ships is kind of similar too...

It's a matter if principle. X wing has so far operated without mandatory purchases beyond a single core set. It's a pretty big change in mentality, that was unpopular with the player base.

Don't think it was about the cash,but rather a matter of principle.

Edited by LordBlades

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe one thing that FFG has underestimated is how much tournament play would become the benchmark for the game. Even if many players do not play tournaments, making the old damage deck illegal (for tournament play) could still mean that the old core set would be obsolete in a practical sense.

It is possible that this would hurt sales of the old core set or that it is simply a matter of principle; "no X-Wing product should be obsolete right out of the box." I have not seen any facts that directly support either assertion.

I think it is fallacious to state that giving C-3PO as a prize in store championships proves anything with regards to how FFG looks at profits, because there are no facts known to us about how this alternate art card affects sales of the CR90.

What I find more than a bit unpleasant about the whole damage deck business is that it seems to be (yet another) cause for players to be as divisive as possible. Some appear to be so frustrated about FFG's decision that they are determined to blame their fellow players. Don't be that guy, please.

As for a solution: I would change the tournament rules so that each player decides what damage deck his opponents will use, i.e. at the beginning of the game you give your opponent a deck. You don't have to do this if the opponent has made the same choice, which is likely. But you could have some control over what criticals you might be inflicting, rather than what you can suffer. I think this would decrease the frustration significantly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Given that they're still selling the original core set it would be a bit of a suspect decision IMO.  Having people able to buy into the game, show up to their first tournament and be told that the thing they bought yesterday isn't legal to play would be bad for the game."

*edit* excuse me trying to sut down the quote fest

 

 

THIS!

 

The obvious thing to do, is to put the new deck in the original core set.

 

Sort your **** out ffg

Edited by Pimpbacca

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it is fallacious to state that giving C-3PO as a prize in store championships proves anything with regards to how FFG looks at profits, because there are no facts known to us about how this alternate art card affects sales of the CR90.

That's hardly a fallacy. I might not have the specific sales numbers but I think it's fair to make an educated guess given it's pretty basic economics. If you flood the market, the relative value of whatever commodity goes down, and people will go to less extreme lengths to obtain it.

Do you honestly believe that if a person has the choice between a $90 ship and a $10 entry fee to a tournament, we need an itemized sales report to speculate on which they'd choose? Regardless, there is no scenario in which releasing thousands of valuable cards will improve CR-90 sales. So if their motives are purely profit driven then they artificially created a sales risk.

As for a solution: I would change the tournament rules so that each player decides what damage deck his opponents will use, i.e. at the beginning of the game you give your opponent a deck. You don't have to do this if the opponent has made the same choice, which is likely. But you could have some control over what criticals you might be inflicting, rather than what you can suffer. I think this would decrease the frustration significantly.

Im sorry, but I think this is a terrible solution. A player shows up with their palp aces build and their opponent delightedly hopes to remove Vader's pilot ability and his EPT and you think that would decrease frustration?

Every single person I've ever talked to prefers the new deck over the old. Forcing the old deck back on them as punishment for having a list too greatly affected by it would be far more frustrating.

I don't think a solution is really needed at this point. People have the choice, fine. The vast, VAST majority of people will play with the new one. Builds that favor the old deck (i.e. spamming generics with no secondary weapons) are largely obsolete competitively anyway.

For the few people who either can't afford the new core set or refuse to for whatever personal reason probably can't afford to keep current on the game anyway, and won't impact the tournament scene much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

The new deck...always.

 

Except if you run swarms...

No even then. Gaming the system is for squares.

And by 'gaming the system' you mean 'using a rule as FFG explicitly stated they intend you to', right?

 

 

They blatantly didn't intend it though, otherwise they wouldn't have attempted to phase it out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lol this again surprised people still fight about this and try and get moral high ground lol but at least all u guys who hate it give me intertainment while I'm at work bored :P

(Yes I meaning all of u who thinking using the old damage deck is "gaming" or "cheating")

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Apparently there's a morality and unwritten rules written on the tournament rules. Must be invisible ink.

As the rules state it's a strategic choice and part of squad building. Like asteroids.

There is no moral decision here. The Decloak rules are different than ffg' original intent. Is that wrong too?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The new deck...always.

 

Except if you run swarms...

No even then. Gaming the system is for squares.

And by 'gaming the system' you mean 'using a rule as FFG explicitly stated they intend you to', right?

 

They blatantly didn't intend it though, otherwise they wouldn't have attempted to phase it out.

Then they changed their minds. Might be player pressure, retailer pressure, game balance considerations or a dozen of other reasons. Nobody on the forum can legitimately claim to know why.

What is known however is that FFG has stated they intend you to use the best damage deck for your list until further notice.

Doing something the game developer tells you you should do is the opposite of gaming the system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's a great argument for what it should be. Should it be one damage deck? Yes.

But is it? No.

What it is, is a choice based on what works best.

Don't confuse what it should be with what it is and tell people to play the game by your rules.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...