Taming Animals

[killerbeardhawk 457]

I have a pathfinder in the group I am the GM for. He is always trying to tame and/or bond with animals when ever possible. I've looked thru the rule book a few times but never really found rules on taming or bonding with animals.

The rules I'm looking for are at what range can you attempt a tame? He normally shouts his dominance and I've been allowing him to do this at long range. He once thru a fruit into an animals mouth at short range.

The other question is how do I as a GM gauge how difficult the tame is? He's rolling I believe FFYYG, maybe a boost if it's possible in its tree, on tame rolls. There's a few creatures coming up that I don't want him to tame. A weaponized Acklay to exact. I understand I can just make him roll RRPPP and have him flip DESTINY point, but the chance of him still taming it is possible. I have a few ideas like having to shoot off its mind control "helmet" before he could try to tame it. But it's kinda the boss of the place they are at and to just have him tell it to lay down would ruin the whole experience.

Edited March 29, 2016 by killerbeardhawk

[John1701 47]

You can judge it on the Personality of the creature. Someone got a bogwing in my last game. It stole some rations from him as its pack attacked. He killed the rest but let this one go. It kept following him and ended up defending him later.

[Blackbird888 4,110]

The rules are currently in Stay on Target, but will also appear in Savage Spirits.

[killerbeardhawk 457]

The rules are currently in Stay on Target, but will also appear in Savage Spirits.

I don't have stay on target. What does it say about range and difficulty of tame actions?

[Blackbird888 4,110]

AFB. Somebody else will have to answer, 'cause I don't remember off hand.

[John1701 47]

Also on page 81 of AoR "Stay on Target" it has rules for training a mount for riding. You could adapt that for taming.

Maybe that, combined with destiny tokens, combined with the personality of the species.

A large herbivore will be easy to approach but might not listen.

A large carnivore would probably attack if hungry or defending territory.

A small/medium herbivore would be afraid. (Fear check?)

A small/medium carnivore would possibly be easily tamed with food.

Omnivores of any size are fair game.

Force sensitive animals of any variety can be much easier or harder to tame with a force rating.

[John1701 47]

It doesn't have the rules for taming, just for training. It says that training a beast takes about 4 weeks and requires a hard survival check. Upgrade the difficulty by the beast's willpower.

Every 2 advantages reduce the time by a week and every 2 threats increase it by a week. Triumph increases the mount rank. Despair crit the rider, combined with a failure the beast is untrainable.

Edited March 29, 2016 by John1701

[killerbeardhawk 457]

Also on page 81 of AoR "Stay on Target" it has rules for training a mount for riding. You could adapt that for taming.

Maybe that, combined with destiny tokens, combined with the personality of the species.

A large herbivore will be easy to approach but might not listen.

A large carnivore would probably attack if hungry or defending territory.

A small/medium herbivore would be afraid. (Fear check?)

A small/medium carnivore would possibly be easily tamed with food.

Omnivores of any size are fair game.

Force sensitive animals of any variety can be much easier or harder to tame with a force rating.

What is the range on taming a mount? Do they say what the difficulty is rated towards, like survival vs discipline. Or is it by siloutte? Maybe just how likely a creature is: angry predator is daunting and simple grazing creature (cow like) is just average?

I understand I could just make this up and have been doing so. I was just looking to see if there rules I should be following.

[Richardbuxton 7,319]

First there is a Silhouette limit on the animals he can Bond with, it's half is FR rounded down.

Second there are some rules in the AoR book for Aces "Stay on Target" about training animals, I'm going to assume those will be in Savage Spirits when it's released some time next month. The check is A Hard Survival check, upgraded by the creatures Willpower. But more importantly it takes 4 weeks to train the animal.

If he wants instant control of an animal then he needs to be using the right hand column of the Influence Force Power upgrades, changing the beasts belief that he is a threat to believe that he is their master or friend.

[killerbeardhawk 457]

First there is a Silhouette limit on the animals he can Bond with, it's half is FR rounded down.

Second there are some rules in the AoR book for Aces "Stay on Target" about training animals, I'm going to assume those will be in Savage Spirits when it's released some time next month. The check is A Hard Survival check, upgraded by the creatures Willpower. But more importantly it takes 4 weeks to train the animal.

If he wants instant control of an animal then he needs to be using the right hand column of the Influence Force Power upgrades, changing the beasts belief that he is a threat to believe that he is their master or friend.

So he can't just try to bond with any animal he comes across. I'll use the rubat spider from hidden depths as an example. The spider was in a calm mood when it was encountered and did not try to attack the party immediately. What should have been the proper way to try to tame/bond with this creature?

[killerbeardhawk 457]

To be clear I'm talking about the Animal Empathy talent used to handle or tame creatures.

Animal Empathy:

When making checks to

handle or tame animals,

add Force dice up to Force rating

to the check. Spend Force points

to add Success or Advantage to the

check.

I'm looking at the opposed part of these checks.

[Decorus 672]

I would oppose it using Discipline or Cool depending on how the person is going about trying to tame it.

 

Discipline if he's using the befriending approach, Cool if he's jumping on its back tying a rope around its neck and trying to break it.

[Richardbuxton 7,319]

First off i fully expect this to be fleshed out more in Savage Spirits, (Edit: Ignore this next bit  , Savage Spirits IS the Seeker book...   ) if not then in the Seeker book when ever thats released.

 

So now to make some rough guesses at what will be the eventual rules:

 

Survival is the skill to use for interacting with animals, be that tracking, calming, taming, training or riding. In the description of the Survival skill it suggests one possible use for a Triumph is to permanently predispose that beast to the character, effectively earning a loyal companion. That suggests to me that there is at least intention for PC's to be able to influence animals, but no timeframe is given. I would then say there are different degrees to taming an animal, and it varies depending on weather its a wild or domesticated animal:

• Calming a beast to prevent it attacking the PC would be a check with immediate results, but if the PC continues to threaten the beast then the beast will attack again. this would be like walking through a Wolfs territory and convincing it to let you pass through, but if you approach its Den and Pups then it will definitely defend those it loves. I would treat this as a Survival vs Discipline opposed check. ​Calming a Domesticated animal would be much easier, probably an Average difficulty Survival check, and would result in the animal being comfortable with the PC being around them. This is like going to a friends house and meeting their dog, once the dog likes you it will probably always like you, but you haven't taught it any tricks doing this, but its instant.
• I think Taming a wild beast should follow the general guidelines from SoT, Hard Survival upgraded by Willpower, 4 weeks affected by advantage/threat. This would then effectively make this animal a Domesticated animal. Now it will defend you as a member of its pack, and take simple directions too. I would give it the ability Trained Mount 1, which adds a single boost to checks to control and direct the animal, it also makes checks to direct the animal much easier.
• If the creature is not trained then any survival check to direct or ride it should be upgraded by Cunning, with setbacks equal to Willpower. I would set the difficulty at 3 for a wild animal, 2 for a normally domesticated animal. there are rules for giving beasts a Handling too, but just get Savage Spirits, there is too much to go over here.
• If the creature is actually trained then no upgrades would be applied, but i would say an action is required (see below as to why an action), with an Average Survival check, to direct the animal to perform a maneuver and an action (In SoT riding is just like driving a vehicle, all the actions are the same, with Survival used instead of Piloting). i would apply upgrades and setback to the check based on the situation.

 

The Animal Bond talent is another way to control an animal. As per the description a bond can not be formed during structured time. but once bonded the creature acts like a pet, taking orders etc, but can be mischievous, stealing food and hiding things just as a dog or cat may. The big benefit i see with a Bonded animal is being able to direct it with a Maneuver rather than an Action, this is huge, as it allows both you and it to attack in a single round. If eventually your PC has a FR of 4 and can bond a Silhouette 2 (minimum mount size) animal then they could ride it, making for an extremely effective combination.

 

 

The only other method as i mentioned would be to use the Influence Force Power, it may be that we see a more beast focused Force Power in the future, but between Influence and Heal there is most everything needed. with this you could briefly control the animal, but once the power wears off its going to revert to attacking you.

Edited March 29, 2016 by Richardbuxton

[Blackbird888 4,110]

First off i fully expect this to be fleshed out more in Savage Spirits, if not then in the Seeker book when ever thats released.

Savage Spirits is the Seeker book.

[Richardbuxton 7,319]

 

First off i fully expect this to be fleshed out more in Savage Spirits, if not then in the Seeker book when ever thats released.

Savage Spirits is the Seeker book.

 

 

Grr, of course it is! whoops, for some reason i decided today it was the Mystic book... it is not.

[killerbeardhawk 457]

Richardbuxton great write up, but you still have yet to answer my question of range of a tame action.

Survival vs discipline/cool as if it was a social check is what I've been doing with a tame/handle check. Nice (charm) or threatening (cohersion) ways of tame having the correct opposed check.

Edited March 30, 2016 by killerbeardhawk

[killerbeardhawk 457]

I understand what SoT has about training a creature to ride. Hard upgraded by willpower. I might use this for all tame/handle checks but most of the time my pathfinder doesn't really seem to be training creatures but collecting them.

[Richardbuxton 7,319]

The SoT rules give no range due to it being a slow process performed during the characters down time.

 

The Bonded Animal talent works out to Medium, i think thats probably a good starting point for the simple "Calm the Beast" action. Make it clear to the player though that this isn't typically a "making the creature my pet" action. You could even affect the difficulty based on range, adding setback based on distance between them, remembering there are great descriptions of range bands using ease of communication as a distance measure on p215-216 of FaD core.

 

Influence has its own range limitations, so there is more guidance there.

 

Then send him this from the Savage Spirits announcement, he absolutely should be purchasing this supliment:

 

 

Beasts of No Nation

Regardless of specialization or career, the wildness is an excellent hiding place for a group of fugitive Force sensitives. But while you’ll find fewer Imperials and political conflicts in the wild, you will undoubtedly meet some wild animals who may think of you as prey, predator, or ally. Savage Spirits includes a bestiary of new creatures, from Dantooine’s horned kath hounds and the feral, predatory vrblthers of Nar Shaddaa to darting Spintiri glowbats and pouncing nexu. Along with rules for taming and riding these beasts, you’ll find guidelines for managing animals companions, should one of your party manage to permanently befriend a Mantellian flutterplume. 

 

Im hoping there are rules for bonding more than a single animal in SS, probably through a talent in the Hermit tree.

 

It sounds like he is stretching the intended limits of the Survival skill and taming animals, having pets that are just for his menagerie is fine so long as they do nothing mechanically. Having a pack of Nexu to do your bidding is something entirely different and would require a much greater time investment.

[Richardbuxton 7,319]

Its probably a case of needing to think about whats reasonable for communicating with an animal in a minute or so? Without using The Force can you convince an animal to be your best friend and leave its home to adventure with you? probably not. Can you convince it your no threat? yeah... hopefully!

[John1701 47]

Richardbuxton great write up, but you still have yet to answer my question of range of a tame action.

Survival vs discipline/cool as if it was a social check is what I've been doing with a tame/handle check. Nice (charm) or threatening (cohersion) ways of tame having the correct opposed check.

  

I understand what SoT has about training a creature to ride. Hard upgraded by willpower. I might use this for all tame/handle checks but most of the time my pathfinder doesn't really seem to be training creatures but collecting them.

The range is the same as it would be in real life. So short or engaged range at the longest.

You should make him actually feed and take care of them, so credits for food and ship space will come into effect.

Either that or make him carry around little red and white balls and make him keep a max of 6 of them at a time.

[killerbeardhawk 457]

Hoping Savage Spirits will give written rules for these types of actions. I'd like to not have to just guess and make things up for it.

[killerbeardhawk 457]

Richardbuxton great write up, but you still have yet to answer my question of range of a tame action.

Survival vs discipline/cool as if it was a social check is what I've been doing with a tame/handle check. Nice (charm) or threatening (cohersion) ways of tame having the correct opposed check.

  

I understand what SoT has about training a creature to ride. Hard upgraded by willpower. I might use this for all tame/handle checks but most of the time my pathfinder doesn't really seem to be training creatures but collecting them.

The range is the same as it would be in real life. So short or engaged range at the longest.

You should make him actually feed and take care of them, so credits for food and ship space will come into effect.

Either that or make him carry around little red and white balls and make him keep a max of 6 of them at a time.

He does turn his hat around on each initiative check.

He may be bonded with a few animals but only brings along what his force rating can sustain.

He jokes about having 6 force rating and 12 silhouette 0 creatures following him around. I'd prefer a silhouette 3 creature but that's just me.

[Richardbuxton 7,319]

He is only supposed to have a single animal bonded at any time...

[Richardbuxton 7,319]

If you want an idea to turn his character on its head I came up with something;

(Edit: this is supposed to be an enhancement of the story, not a GM being difficult. You could use it as part of triggering his morality.)

The bond is a connection that goes both ways, it shares more than thoughts too, it shares emotions and feelings. Start to drop hints that the menagerie are starting to argue and fight over his affection. Perhaps as he disconnects from one animal he feels a sharp stab of loss, fear, abandonment or other negative emotion. Then when he chooses an animal to bond its feeling smug, proud or over confident etc. the theme being that the emotions should mostly be linked to Dark Side emotions!

Then after a bit of this they start getting injured when he leaves them behind, the smallest animals start to disappear and the largest ones begin enjoying violence

Edited March 30, 2016 by Richardbuxton

[killerbeardhawk 457]

He is only supposed to have a single animal bonded at any time...

I'm sure that's how the rules for bond are supposed to be, but that's simply not his style and not want he imagined when he made his character. To be fair he only is bonded with 2 creatures now, a small monkey (woolamander) and a small riding lizard/bird (mawgax). He usually just has the monkey with him because at this point he can only choose 1. S 1 + S 0 = force rating 3. He is only force rating 2.

While I can see how having different creatures following him could be unbalanced, I still only allow 1 maneuver to give 1 bonded creature 1 maneuver and 1 action. The multiple creature is only a benefit when they would be a group of minions, making the most out of the 1 m and 1 action. His bonded animals aren't even good at combat. So it's not like he would be killing stormtroopers left and right.

He had collected other creatures, a rubat spider and a space rat but we're killed in the first combat that came up.