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Princezilla

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Anyway. Again what do you want the X Wing to do? You keep saying you want it to be a hyper competitive A list ship but what do you want it to do to become that? The reason the X Wing was so popular with the rebellion was that it was a jack of all trades but it didn't do any one thing super amazingly.

The problem for me is not that the X-wing does not match the fluff. The problem is that it is over-costed for those abilities. IMHO it needs about 4 points trimmed off the price to bring it in line with more recent ships.

But since FFG don't want to reprint all the existing X-wing pilots with new prices, we have to look for something else that adds value without breaking anything along the way. A title that provides a discount on a particular upgrade (torpedoes perhaps?) would be my favoured choice and worked well on the Tie Advanced. It would fit the fluff and give T65s a bit of extra punch for one turn without spoiling anything else.

I don't want the ship turned into something it isn't, I just want it competitive against more recent releases.

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I love how people are supporting my idea of gunner effects on E-wings that I posted some time ago! Yes! Thank you!

I believe, personally, the E-wing needs a patch. It was just poorly designed, end of story. The IA is not a sufficient patch (I've played four X-wing lists into a TIE/advproto with title mini swarm and been out jousted too many times to find out more than laughable, they didn't even need Soontir. Thanks standard power creep) I think the Y-wing has never been successfully patched. And that a turret, especially one which is by the designers admission too good, should never be passed off as a patch. And that it has only ever had two named pilots since release that have never seen top tier play. Same for the named Z-95 pilots. I believe that A-wings are doing OK, but could use a spit shine since the Refit is kinda not what they needed, it's too expensive a trade when you need a procket shot to get good use out of them.

I believe the X-wing needs a third action on its bar. A two action bar is no good. Even the large based ships are released with three actions now. Push the limit is a top tier pick for about every ship out there, except the X-wing. There's only one combination of actions and it's not that great against an arc dodger. Like, at all. I would like to see them get a flip card that says barrel roll on one side, and boost on the other. I don't want to have to choose between the two as a player, but as a designer I couldn't give them both. Or hell a title that gave them all Jake's ability would be fantastic.

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I want the X Wing to have a better ability to deal damage. My favourite idea so far is a dual card. One side reads: When attacking a target with less than 2 agility, you may add one damage dice. The other side reads: When attacking a target with more than 2 agility, you may force the defender to discard one of their Evade results.

Or something like that anyway. The specifics are unimportant, and how FFG chooses to fix the ship is up to them. I don't actually care HOW they do it, so long as it works.

I've never thought X-wings were lacking attack or now with IA, hull and shields. To me the

​X-wing is lacking monuverablilty. I was thinking that a title similar to the X7 would be cool.

Rogue squadron member. Cost 0 points.

"After performing a speed 1-3 move, you may perform a free boost or barrel role.​"

 

Maybe a discount on torpedo's would be nice.   

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Any X-wing with Stay On Target also loves Targeting Astromech.

There's some situational utility there, but I'm not convinced 4 points for what amounts to bad dial insurance is worth it. Intentionally stressing yourself just to get a free TL action doesn't strike me as a great idea. The T-65 EPT aces can make better use of skill and droid combos than that, unless your match up is corner case enough that you will want the dial take-backsies that SOT offers.

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I want the X Wing to have a better ability to deal damage. My favourite idea so far is a dual card. One side reads: When attacking a target with less than 2 agility, you may add one damage dice. The other side reads: When attacking a target with more than 2 agility, you may force the defender to discard one of their Evade results.

Or something like that anyway. The specifics are unimportant, and how FFG chooses to fix the ship is up to them. I don't actually care HOW they do it, so long as it works.

I've never thought X-wings were lacking attack or now with IA, hull and shields. To me the

​X-wing is lacking monuverablilty. I was thinking that a title similar to the X7 would be cool.

Rogue squadron member. Cost 0 points.

"After performing a speed 1-3 move, you may perform a free boost or barrel role.​"

 

Maybe a discount on torpedo's would be nice.

That makes them into T-70s or B Wings. Making a ship work exactly like another existing ship isn't a fix.

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I want the X Wing to have a better ability to deal damage. My favourite idea so far is a dual card. One side reads: When attacking a target with less than 2 agility, you may add one damage dice. The other side reads: When attacking a target with more than 2 agility, you may force the defender to discard one of their Evade results.

Or something like that anyway. The specifics are unimportant, and how FFG chooses to fix the ship is up to them. I don't actually care HOW they do it, so long as it works.

I've never thought X-wings were lacking attack or now with IA, hull and shields. To me the

​X-wing is lacking monuverablilty. I was thinking that a title similar to the X7 would be cool.

Rogue squadron member. Cost 0 points.

"After performing a speed 1-3 move, you may perform a free boost or barrel role.​"

 

Maybe a discount on torpedo's would be nice.

That makes them into T-70s or B Wings. Making a ship work exactly like another existing ship isn't a fix.

 

 

Well, in some ways the T-70 is what the T-65 should have been imho. 

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I want the X Wing to have a better ability to deal damage. My favourite idea so far is a dual card. One side reads: When attacking a target with less than 2 agility, you may add one damage dice. The other side reads: When attacking a target with more than 2 agility, you may force the defender to discard one of their Evade results.

Or something like that anyway. The specifics are unimportant, and how FFG chooses to fix the ship is up to them. I don't actually care HOW they do it, so long as it works.

I've never thought X-wings were lacking attack or now with IA, hull and shields. To me the

​X-wing is lacking monuverablilty. I was thinking that a title similar to the X7 would be cool.

Rogue squadron member. Cost 0 points.

"After performing a speed 1-3 move, you may perform a free boost or barrel role.​"

 

Maybe a discount on torpedo's would be nice.

That makes them into T-70s or B Wings. Making a ship work exactly like another existing ship isn't a fix.

 

 

It wouldn't be exactly like a T-70 or a B-Wing. It still has its own dial. If anything, since the T-70 is just a next generation X-Wing, it makes sense that they would be similar.

 

Honestly, a 0-Point title for the X-Wing that gives them the Boost Action would go miles in improving their competitive standing. Then their cost differentiation with the T-70 would make a little more sense. It wouldn't make them perfect, but you'd probably see more X-Wings in... X-Wing.

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:>8(_)8<: 

If you can break my little enigma code above ... you'll figure out what I want to see in the box.

 

I will argue though that there will be at least 1 OT ship in the box. X or Y as A and B don't really need the love. Y's have their turrets at the moment sooo fingers are crossed. 

thats an x-wing!

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Any X-wing with Stay On Target also loves Targeting Astromech.

There's some situational utility there, but I'm not convinced 4 points for what amounts to bad dial insurance is worth it. Intentionally stressing yourself just to get a free TL action doesn't strike me as a great idea. The T-65 EPT aces can make better use of skill and droid combos than that, unless your match up is corner case enough that you will want the dial take-backsies that SOT offers.

Too bad Hobbie doesn't have an EPT slot..

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:>8(_)8<: 

If you can break my little enigma code above ... you'll figure out what I want to see in the box.

 

I will argue though that there will be at least 1 OT ship in the box. X or Y as A and B don't really need the love. Y's have their turrets at the moment sooo fingers are crossed.

thats an x-wing!

Here, have a cookie.

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Well, in some ways the T-70 is what the T-65 should have been imho.

The way the game has developed, not necessarily designed, but the way it has developed is that pretty much everything either needs a post-dial movement option or a turret.

I hate that.

Turning the X Wing into another arc-dodging flip-flopping boosting ship would be a tragedy, IMO. FFG has an opportunity to improve it, and build a ship that is good WITHOUT needing boost+barrel roll every turn. It would be a real shame to just see them slap boost/barrel roll on it and call it a day.

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I’m reading this thread for a while and I’m freshly registered to suggest my idea for the T-65…

What about to bring only more option on the T65 instead of a pure fix ? I don’t think the X-wing need the same treatment as the TIE advanced or the Awing. Adding a red dice, an [acceleration] action or enhancing the regenerative mechanics to all your generics X-wing would be a little bit too much imao. Why not just bringing a new slot ? Like :

  • TX-65 modified Cockpit (2pts - modification - T65 only) :
    Adding a [crew] slot.
    You cannot equip an [astromech] that cost more than 2pts

 

The modification slot (instead of the title) and the astromech cost restriction is to avoid a potential build like : Luke + R2D2 (astromech)/IA + Chewbacca … which is a too ****’ powerful regen monster.  And without R2D2, T-65 with just chewbacca + any astromech/ IA it’s a virtual 8HP small  ship with 2 greens who can avoid 2 crit card. So, I think we shouldn’t make this possible ^^.

That’s let us a large array of build between a casual Rookie + R2 astro + recon spe (25pts), or a roadblocker Rookie + R5-X3 + Zeb (23pts), to a more competitive and (maybe) in the meta Wedges + BB-8 + Crewbacca + predator (38pts).

 

One of the other interesting thing with this crew slot is the possibility to create a dedicated friend for our beloved wing (Maybe in this rebel vet’ pack ) like :

  • Rebel instructor (2pts - crew - rebel (or T65) only) :
    After you execute a green maneuver, you can acquire a target lock on an enemy inside your firing arc.

 

That’s way we get an offensive rookie+R2 astro+Reb instructor at the same price of a Blue+FCS. I don’t think the “rebel only” restriction could be a problem on a Bwing/E1 (‘cuz same price as the Bwing+tactician) or on the HWK (who gain an interest in firing with turret in his arc). But I’m a little bit mitigate on the idea of an Rebel instructor on an Attack shuttle. Is it too powerful ? I think that idea need some playtest to apply the more reasonable restriction.

 

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Well, in some ways the T-70 is what the T-65 should have been imho.

The way the game has developed, not necessarily designed, but the way it has developed is that pretty much everything either needs a post-dial movement option or a turret.

I hate that.

Turning the X Wing into another arc-dodging flip-flopping boosting ship would be a tragedy, IMO. FFG has an opportunity to improve it, and build a ship that is good WITHOUT needing boost+barrel roll every turn. It would be a real shame to just see them slap boost/barrel roll on it and call it a day.

They could just increase the printed arc on the base :D

Instead of 90° give it 135°, which might be more effective for low skill pilots than barrel roll or boost.

Would need a patch pack full of new t-65 base plates. :D

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Well, in some ways the T-70 is what the T-65 should have been imho.

The way the game has developed, not necessarily designed, but the way it has developed is that pretty much everything either needs a post-dial movement option or a turret.

I hate that.

Turning the X Wing into another arc-dodging flip-flopping boosting ship would be a tragedy, IMO. FFG has an opportunity to improve it, and build a ship that is good WITHOUT needing boost+barrel roll every turn. It would be a real shame to just see them slap boost/barrel roll on it and call it a day.

 

They could just increase the printed arc on the base :D

Instead of 90° give it 135°, which might be more effective for low skill pilots than barrel roll or boost.

Would need a patch pack full of new t-65 base plates. :D

 

This would be a really interesting ship ability actually.  Maybe not for the x-wing, but for some putative new ship, giving it a larger primary arc could be really cool.  I've often thought of a ship with a 270ish degree primary arc (gimbal-mounted weapon that can't fire backwards) or a ship with two 100ish degree arcs, one on either side (BROADSIDES, FIRE)

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This would be a really interesting ship ability actually.  Maybe not for the x-wing, but for some putative new ship, giving it a larger primary arc could be really cool.  I've often thought of a ship with a 270ish degree primary arc (gimbal-mounted weapon that can't fire backwards) or a ship with two 100ish degree arcs, one on either side (BROADSIDES, FIRE)

IIRC some ships already have the 90° broadside fire arc. 90° forward, 90° backward is already a thing as well, 360° is already a thing as well, just stuff that gets away from the 90° steps would be a new thing.

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This would be a really interesting ship ability actually.  Maybe not for the x-wing, but for some putative new ship, giving it a larger primary arc could be really cool.  I've often thought of a ship with a 270ish degree primary arc (gimbal-mounted weapon that can't fire backwards) or a ship with two 100ish degree arcs, one on either side (BROADSIDES, FIRE)

IIRC some ships already have the 90° broadside fire arc. 90° forward, 90° backward is already a thing as well, 360° is already a thing as well, just stuff that gets away from the 90° steps would be a new thing.

 

I'm not talking about auxiliary arcs, I'm talking about weird primary arcs, i.e. out of which cannons, missiles etc could be fired.  And in the case of broadside arcs, I'm talking about only being able to fire out of the sides, not out of the front.

 

Broadside arcs don't exist yet, though there's the YV666 which has the whole front half of its base as an aux arc with a normal ~90 degree primary.

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This would be a really interesting ship ability actually.  Maybe not for the x-wing, but for some putative new ship, giving it a larger primary arc could be really cool.  I've often thought of a ship with a 270ish degree primary arc (gimbal-mounted weapon that can't fire backwards) or a ship with two 100ish degree arcs, one on either side (BROADSIDES, FIRE)

IIRC some ships already have the 90° broadside fire arc. 90° forward, 90° backward is already a thing as well, 360° is already a thing as well, just stuff that gets away from the 90° steps would be a new thing.

 

I'm not talking about auxiliary arcs, I'm talking about weird primary arcs, i.e. out of which cannons, missiles etc could be fired.  And in the case of broadside arcs, I'm talking about only being able to fire out of the sides, not out of the front.

 

Broadside arcs don't exist yet, though there's the YV666 which has the whole front half of its base as an aux arc with a normal ~90 degree primary.

 

Epic ships do have weird arcs like that tho it would be really hard to implement that on an existing ship. The idea of a wider front on on the X occurred to me as well but there is no good way to implement it. Lol maybe just cardigaan their torp slot :P the fix, and i'm still not convinced they still need one, doesn't need to be dramatic.

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Broadside arcs don't exist yet, though there's the YV666 which has the whole front half of its base as an aux arc with a normal ~90 degree primary.

 

CR90 seems to me like it has Broadside arcs for its hard points. Though don't play epics, so I might be wrong.

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Well, in some ways the T-70 is what the T-65 should have been imho.

The way the game has developed, not necessarily designed, but the way it has developed is that pretty much everything either needs a post-dial movement option or a turret.I hate that.Turning the X Wing into another arc-dodging flip-flopping boosting ship would be a tragedy, Imo.

You really dont need post movement dial options or a turret

But, if you chose to forgo the massive utility they bring without putting out some obscene damage on the few turns you manage to get a shot then you're playing a losing game

The x doesn't need to be a super arcdodger, it just either needs to do more than move once and roll dice OR it better joust like a god

Anything less and they'll be forgotten for ships that offer more gameplay options

Edited by ficklegreendice

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What if we were introduced to a new type of post maneuver movement? It would be cool if they released an equilateral triangle the size of a 1 speed. It would be used like a barrel roll, but it mainly rotates the firing arc 60°. It won't help arc dodge too much, but it would keep things in arc.

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