Is this a judgment a TO can make?

[Imp3r1al4Lyf3 0]

I was the person it happened to, I didn't create the post and I don't appreciate the heat I've caught for it. The original post was 100% correct and nonjudgmental so I SO GLAD your conscience was assuaded. Jeff, I now have a problem with you. I told a friend during my updates what happened and he was upset enough to post an honest question about it. This was a horrible experience, I don't think it was right, I WASN'T going to make a big deal about. I simply let my friend, the TO, know why I was upset so we could avoid this in the future. I did not report it, or suggest you had done anything to intentionally cheat, but I was cheated and I'm not the only one who thinks so. Use your cards. I had an opponent who had 6 Z95s with different PS and ordinance. What if he didn't use cards? I ran 4 cracks with a crazy 40pt Vader. How bout no cards there? You want to pick a fight? My cards were NOT in a binder. They were layed out ALONGSIDE the mat with all corresponding cards as they have been for years. Ask anyone. You started this. Fly casual was abused and I should have stuck to my guns. The match was super close and the fact that you used this wrong and I got 8th while you got 4th chaps my ass. You and your previous opponents all said you used this incorrectly a lot. I like X wing because the community, or rather, I did. It's been 24 hours, I'm still mad, and have decided to leave you Bay boys to your own devices and stick to local play as a result of the feedback I've received in the wake of this. I was keeping it in house til you called me out. I love this game, so just know that you contributed to taking something nice away from me because of your attitude about this mix up. Take care of yourself (***)

[VanorDM 11,599]

TO's are not only responsible for adjudicating the rules of the game but also responsible for helping the community grow.

No it actually isn't. A TO's job is to make sure the event runs smoothly and that everyone plays by the same rules.  Building community is not the job of the TO.

No harm, no foul...

Well since we're discussing it, it's not nearly that simple. And if this becomes a normal thing it will cause harm sooner or latter.

[guthrie76 11]

the to messed up any ffg function must have correct items

[kryzak 215]

The original post was 100% correct and nonjudgmental so I ...

 

I don't really care about the rant between the two players, but "100% correct"?  Here's the original post:

 

At a recent store championship a player entered with only a print out of his upgrades. No actual cards. The TO allowed it, but I'm not sure he can allow it. 

 

Not 100% correct:

1. Jeff had actual cards

2. TO did NOT allow players to play without actual cards.  See #1.

[Imp3r1al4Lyf3 0]

The TO had checked Jeff's cards beforehand. I was unaware of this and of the fact that he even had them. They were never presented. To clarify, I don't blame the TO, I didn't create this post, I never was calling for any kind of punitive action for anyone. I got mad at the reaction of my opponent and felt insult was added to injury. This was all unfortunate and frankly I'm embarrassed it's become a public thing. My personal feelings about the fairness of the situation and how I feel about certain people aren't important. My private conversation with the TO was about making sure that in the future this was avoided and didn't leave anyone with bad feelings about the fairness of a match. We don't have to like everyone me meet, but I don't have a problem with how the TO handled himself. He's done more for our local community than anyone I know

[Jeff Wilder 5,326]

You know, I was going to do a point-by-point rebuttal, but it will accomplish nothing.  Bernie has already pointed out the factual problems with the OP that JP ("Imp3r1al4Lyf3") considers "100% correct."

 

And apparently JP got mad at my "reaction."  My reaction, which anybody present will tell you, was embarrassment at the mistake and multiple apologies directly to JP.

 

And you know what?  Neither he nor I still know whether my mistake had any actual impact in my favor at all ... all we know for sure is that my ship took an extra Stress.

 

But this explains it all:

 

 

the fact that you used this wrong and I got 8th while you got 4th chaps my ass.

 

JP is literally butt-hurt.

 

I am still genuinely sorry for the mistake.  Mostly, at this point, for the TO who's had so many people making judgments about him based on misinformation.

 

But I would be a liar -- or, you know, maybe just "100% correct" -- if I said I'm heartbroken that I won't see you around the Bay, JP.

[Imp3r1al4Lyf3 0]

It came across that I have a problem with all Bay Area players. Not the case. Jeff is just an inflammatory person who I could go on and on about for whatever reason. Suffice it to say that I'm sure I'm not the only one who can't stand him and I know for a fact some people hate me. Bay Area you rock, Jeff go to hell.

[VanorDM 11,599]

The question was asked and answered, this is now becoming about someone attacking someone else... 

[arnoldrew 1,713]

I play with a list instead of cards at tournaments all the time. I always have the cards available (as well as extra copies of my list for my opponents to look at) and I always make sure that's fine before we start a game. Frankly, printing it out from an online list builder generally works better than having cards. I just put munitions tokens, shiled tokens, damage cards etc. on the paper.

[Rinehart 684]

Guys, just lets all use the cards, ok.  Not using the cards is what caused this situation in the first place.  The rule exists for FFG to sell a few extra ships, but it mainly exists so that each player has a consistent experience from game to game.

If I play all my games against opponents that have their cards on display across the table from me, I can see them quickly and know what's there.  I can ask to see the cards and read what the actual gospel text is on the card to question how it is being used, or to confirm it's use.  I can easily see how many upgrades each card has.  And I can fairly easily keep track of which ships have used crackshot for instance because that crackshot has been flipped over.  Also, because I have seen the cards and visually know what they look like, I can see at a glance quickly what upgrades each ship is using, without reading any text.  I can't glance across the table and read that your Ywing has a TLT turret and not an Ion turret on it, but I can see and recognize the cards from across the table quickly and easily.

Suddenly, if I have to play against someone without the cards in front of them, but instead a text printout of the cards they have in their case somewhere, it can be like playing with one hand tied behind my back.  Sure, you can use tokens to track whatever upgrades you are trying to use, but that's only easy for you, because you have done that and are used to it.  Asking your opponent to try to learn whatever unique system you have come up with to follow what he is doing is really not reasonable.  Especially when there is an established system to keep track of these things that everyone else is following.  Your opponent shouldn't be required to learn your system, no matter how obvious and easy you think it is,  of tracking your squad to be able to play against you.  Going into the game, you know your system and you know his, but he only knows his system, which just happens to follow the rules.

Not using the cards is unfair to an opponent and a field of players that is using the cards.  It creates an unfair advantage, no matter how slight it may be.  

It can be convenient to use a list printout, but if everyone else is being inconvenienced to play the game a certain way, then so should you.  

 

Creating a new way of displaying your squad to your opponent, that may be completely foreign to them, is not ok.

Please just take the time and effort to take out the cards and use them correctly.  The rule exists for so many more reasons than for FFG to sell more things.

Edited March 29, 2016 by Rinehart

[SEApocalypse 4,443]

Are you kidding me?

The Tournament Rules say that card proxies are not allowed. The TO not following rules is wrong and should be reported to FFG.

The Opportunist problem is a perfect example of why this should not be allowed.

I haven't taken a Crack Swarm to a tournament beacause I don't have the cards and can't borrow enough on short notice.

Sorry to go on, but this really burns me up.

Start carrying a copy of the rules and point out when a TO is blatently wrong.

 

The opportunist problem is a perfect sample used as strawman to justify whatever you like. Proxing cards is not an issue, proxing cards and trying to cheat is one. And let's be frank here, printing cards which will pass as FFG cards is not really complicated nor expensive. And you can manipulate those cards just as fine. With proxy cards you are at least aware to check a card reference on the web when in doubt about a card.

 

The rules are there for a reason and that reason is to make FFG money. That is in this context a good reason anyway and no further reasoning is really needed. FFG is spending money to support the tournament scene, giving them a reason to do so is beneficial for all tournament player and to some extend even to all X-Wing players. 

[arnoldrew 1,713]

Guys, just lets all use the cards, ok.  Not using the cards is what caused this situation in the first place.  The rule exists for FFG to sell a few extra ships, but it mainly exists so that each player has a consistent experience from game to game.

If I play all my games against opponents that have their cards on display across the table from me, I can see them quickly and know what's there.  I can ask to see the cards and read what the actual gospel text is on the card to question how it is being used, or to confirm it's use.  I can easily see how many upgrades each card has.  And I can fairly easily keep track of which ships have used crackshot for instance because that crackshot has been flipped over.  Also, because I have seen the cards and visually know what they look like, I can see at a glance quickly what upgrades each ship is using, without reading any text.  I can't glance across the table and read that your Ywing has a TLT turret and not an Ion turret on it, but I can see and recognize the cards from across the table quickly and easily.

Suddenly, if I have to play against someone without the cards in front of them, but instead a text printout of the cards they have in their case somewhere, it can be like playing with one hand tied behind my back.  Sure, you can use tokens to track whatever upgrades you are trying to use, but that's only easy for you, because you have done that and are used to it.  Asking your opponent to try to learn whatever unique system you have come up with to follow what he is doing is really not reasonable.  Especially when there is an established system to keep track of these things that everyone else is following.  Your opponent shouldn't be required to learn your system, no matter how obvious and easy you think it is,  of tracking your squad to be able to play against you.  Going into the game, you know your system and you know his, but he only knows his system, which just happens to follow the rules.

Not using the cards is unfair to an opponent and a field of players that is using the cards.  It creates an unfair advantage, no matter how slight it may be.  

It can be convenient to use a list printout, but if everyone else is being inconvenienced to play the game a certain way, then so should you.  

 

Creating a new way of displaying your squad to your opponent, that may be completely foreign to them, is not ok.

Please just take the time and effort to take out the cards and use them correctly.  The rule exists for so many more reasons than for FFG to sell more things.

 

Let's just agree to disagree on everything, I guess. Using a printout is MORE convenient, fast, clear, etc, plus there's the fact that the text on the cards isn't "gospel," the FAQ is, which the list builders use to change the text on the lists we print out. There's no "system," it's just looking at a sheet of paper and reading words. If I play you and you insist I not use my list I'll go ahead and use the cards, but I'm not going to pretend it's somehow easier or better to do so when it is not.

 

[VanorDM 11,599]

which the list builders use to change the text on the lists we print out. 

 

Not always.  There's still some cards out there with the wrong text on them.  A printed list is always going to be more likely to contain flaws then the actual cards are.

[Stu35 723]

As the TO for that said tournament, I have to step in to correct the statement and facts. 

 

1. The player involved HAD the cards and could produce it if requested, but it was NEVER requested by the original poster to the TO during the match.

2. Cards are NECESSARY for Store championship level or higher competition, and if the player requests his/her opponent to produce it, as TO I would enforce that.  As TO, I allow players to use their printed lists if both players of that match agrees to it AND that any player can challenge the other to produce and examine the cards. 

3. The misinterpretation of Opportunist was completely unintentional (the player involved is very well known in the community and no one would ever accuse him of intentionally cheating on anything), and the issue at hand was that both players did not catch that the "You cannot use this ability if you have any stress tokens." because it was printed on the OTHER side of the page.  It was not that the printout was inaccurate.

4. If the players demanded a way to rectify the match while it was going on, I would have asked them to try to back out the times it was used and penalized the player who unintentionally misinterpreted the rules based on when it was misused, to my best abilities, e.g. remove HP or even a ship from the board at that point.  BUT this was NOT officially requested during the game nor after the match.

 

I believe this thread has been blown out of proportion by other posters (not the original poster) with incomplete facts.  I'm sorry for what happened to the original poster, and hopefully in the future players will be encouraged to challenge their opponent on components or rules immediately with the TO and ask for rectification during the match. 

 

 

Can this get added at the bottom of the OP please? (or indeed, the top of the OP). I had a fairly lengthy rant queued up before I read this.

[Rinehart 684]

Guys, just lets all use the cards, ok.  Not using the cards is what caused this situation in the first place.  The rule exists for FFG to sell a few extra ships, but it mainly exists so that each player has a consistent experience from game to game.

If I play all my games against opponents that have their cards on display across the table from me, I can see them quickly and know what's there.  I can ask to see the cards and read what the actual gospel text is on the card to question how it is being used, or to confirm it's use.  I can easily see how many upgrades each card has.  And I can fairly easily keep track of which ships have used crackshot for instance because that crackshot has been flipped over.  Also, because I have seen the cards and visually know what they look like, I can see at a glance quickly what upgrades each ship is using, without reading any text.  I can't glance across the table and read that your Ywing has a TLT turret and not an Ion turret on it, but I can see and recognize the cards from across the table quickly and easily.

Suddenly, if I have to play against someone without the cards in front of them, but instead a text printout of the cards they have in their case somewhere, it can be like playing with one hand tied behind my back.  Sure, you can use tokens to track whatever upgrades you are trying to use, but that's only easy for you, because you have done that and are used to it.  Asking your opponent to try to learn whatever unique system you have come up with to follow what he is doing is really not reasonable.  Especially when there is an established system to keep track of these things that everyone else is following.  Your opponent shouldn't be required to learn your system, no matter how obvious and easy you think it is,  of tracking your squad to be able to play against you.  Going into the game, you know your system and you know his, but he only knows his system, which just happens to follow the rules.

Not using the cards is unfair to an opponent and a field of players that is using the cards.  It creates an unfair advantage, no matter how slight it may be.  

It can be convenient to use a list printout, but if everyone else is being inconvenienced to play the game a certain way, then so should you.  

 

Creating a new way of displaying your squad to your opponent, that may be completely foreign to them, is not ok.

Please just take the time and effort to take out the cards and use them correctly.  The rule exists for so many more reasons than for FFG to sell more things.

 

Let's just agree to disagree on everything, I guess. Using a printout is MORE convenient, fast, clear, etc, plus there's the fact that the text on the cards isn't "gospel," the FAQ is, which the list builders use to change the text on the lists we print out. There's no "system," it's just looking at a sheet of paper and reading words. If I play you and you insist I not use my list I'll go ahead and use the cards, but I'm not going to pretend it's somehow easier or better to do so when it is not.

There is a system outlined in the rules that everyone has agreed to use at a tournament. I understand the usefulness of a printout, sometimes using all the proper cards can be a giant pain, I get it. But, is your argument really that you don't feel you need to follow the rules because they are not convenient? In all fairness using the models is a bit of a hassle, why not just leave those at home? I mean you could show up with the plastic bases and the card board plaques for the bases, the dice app on your phone and a printed sheet of paper, then just insist on using your opponents templates and rulers. That would be far simpler, wouldn't it? No need to worry about packing and unpacking models, I mean who needs that hassle? After all, everything about the ship is on the cardboard plaque.

It doesn't matter if it's easier for you to use paper to represent your squad, your components are there for the benefit of your opponent as well. Show some respect for your opponent, and follow the same rules he is following

[Rapture 499]

4. If the players demanded a way to rectify the match while it was going on, I would have asked them to try to back out the times it was used and penalized the player who unintentionally misinterpreted the rules based on when it was misused, to my best abilities, e.g. remove HP or even a ship from the board at that point.  BUT this was NOT officially requested during the game nor after the match.

Other than one player breaking the rules for his own convenience and then not conceding after the infraction became know, this stands out the most in this thread. Since when are players required to propose resolution to another player's breaking of the rules? Isn't that setting the event up for unfairness and inconsistent punishments?

[ZealuxMyr 1,944]

As a gamer I bring my entire kit with me to all events (excluding the epic models).

 

Core: Core Set x3 & TFA Core Set x2

Rebellion: A-Wing x5, B-Wing x5, Z-95 Headhunter x12, E-Wing x5, K-Wing x5, VCX-100 x1, T-70 X-Wing x4, T-65 X-Wing x8, Y-Wing x7, YT-1300 x3, YT-2400 x2, HWK-290 x4, Gr-75 x2, CR-90 x1, & Rebel Aces x1

Imperial: TIE Advanced x4, TIE Advanced Prototype x5, TIE Fighter x6, TIE/fo Fighter x2, VT-49 Decimator x2, TIE Interceptor x5, TIE Bomber x4, TIE Punisher x4, TIE Defender x4, TIE Phantom x4, Firespray-31 x3, Lambda-Class Shuttle x2, Imperial Raider x1, Imperial Assault Carrier x2, & Imperial Aces x2

Scum & Villainy: G1-A Starfighter x3, Most Wanted x2, Aggressor x2, YV-666 x2, StarViper x3, Kihraxz Fighter x4, M3-a Interceptor x5, & JumpMaster 5000 x2

 

As I act as TO, if a player brings only a printed out list (and I have all my upgrade cards on hand) would it be objectionable to loan the player the necessary cards to satisfy the official rules? Or would, because they're loaners, others still find cause for objection? As a TO I believe all who arrive should, whenever possible, be afforded the opportunity to participate. I would not feel morally justified to tell someone they could not participate when I have the cards to field their list just sitting there next to me, where this the only thing preventing them from participating.

Edited March 29, 2016 by ZealuxMyr

[Rinehart 684]

As a gamer I bring my entire kit with me to all events (excluding the epic models).

 

Core: Core Set x3 & TFA Core Set x2

Rebellion: A-Wing x5, B-Wing x5, Z-95 Headhunter x12, E-Wing x5, K-Wing x5, VCX-100 x1, T-70 X-Wing x4, T-65 X-Wing x8, Y-Wing x7, YT-1300 x3, YT-2400 x2, HWK-290 x4, Gr-75 x2, CR-90 x1, & Rebel Aces x1

Imperial: TIE Advanced x4, TIE Advanced Prototype x5, TIE Fighter x6, TIE/fo Fighter x2, VT-49 Decimator x2, TIE Interceptor x5, TIE Bomber x4, TIE Punisher x4, TIE Defender x4, TIE Phantom x4, Firespray-31 x3, Lambda-Class Shuttle x2, Imperial Raider x1, Imperial Assault Carrier x2, & Imperial Aces x2

Scum & Villainy: G1-A Starfighter x3, Most Wanted x2, Aggressor x2, YV-666 x2, StarViper x3, Kihraxz Fighter x4, M3-a Interceptor x5, & JumpMaster 5000 x2

 

As I act as TO, if a player brings only a printed out list (and I have all my upgrade cards on hand) would it be objectionable to loan the player the necessary cards to satisfy the official rules? Or would, because they're loaners, others still find cause for objection? As a TO I believe all who arrive should, whenever possible, be afforded the opportunity to participate. I would not feel morally justified to tell someone they could not participate when I have the cards to field their list just sitting there next to me, where this the only thing preventing them from participating.

 

I don't think it matters at all where the players got the cards.  In our group, we regularly lend cards and ships to players that don't have them for tournaments.  

And, the rules don't actually state that the player must OWN the cards.  The rules just say the player must have them laid out on the table in front of them.

[voidreturn 816]

 

 

Guys, just lets all use the cards, ok.  Not using the cards is what caused this situation in the first place.  The rule exists for FFG to sell a few extra ships, but it mainly exists so that each player has a consistent experience from game to game.

If I play all my games against opponents that have their cards on display across the table from me, I can see them quickly and know what's there.  I can ask to see the cards and read what the actual gospel text is on the card to question how it is being used, or to confirm it's use.  I can easily see how many upgrades each card has.  And I can fairly easily keep track of which ships have used crackshot for instance because that crackshot has been flipped over.  Also, because I have seen the cards and visually know what they look like, I can see at a glance quickly what upgrades each ship is using, without reading any text.  I can't glance across the table and read that your Ywing has a TLT turret and not an Ion turret on it, but I can see and recognize the cards from across the table quickly and easily.

Suddenly, if I have to play against someone without the cards in front of them, but instead a text printout of the cards they have in their case somewhere, it can be like playing with one hand tied behind my back.  Sure, you can use tokens to track whatever upgrades you are trying to use, but that's only easy for you, because you have done that and are used to it.  Asking your opponent to try to learn whatever unique system you have come up with to follow what he is doing is really not reasonable.  Especially when there is an established system to keep track of these things that everyone else is following.  Your opponent shouldn't be required to learn your system, no matter how obvious and easy you think it is,  of tracking your squad to be able to play against you.  Going into the game, you know your system and you know his, but he only knows his system, which just happens to follow the rules.

Not using the cards is unfair to an opponent and a field of players that is using the cards.  It creates an unfair advantage, no matter how slight it may be.  

It can be convenient to use a list printout, but if everyone else is being inconvenienced to play the game a certain way, then so should you.  

 

Creating a new way of displaying your squad to your opponent, that may be completely foreign to them, is not ok.

Please just take the time and effort to take out the cards and use them correctly.  The rule exists for so many more reasons than for FFG to sell more things.

 

Let's just agree to disagree on everything, I guess. Using a printout is MORE convenient, fast, clear, etc, plus there's the fact that the text on the cards isn't "gospel," the FAQ is, which the list builders use to change the text on the lists we print out. There's no "system," it's just looking at a sheet of paper and reading words. If I play you and you insist I not use my list I'll go ahead and use the cards, but I'm not going to pretend it's somehow easier or better to do so when it is not.

There is a system outlined in the rules that everyone has agreed to use at a tournament. I understand the usefulness of a printout, sometimes using all the proper cards can be a giant pain, I get it. But, is your argument really that you don't feel you need to follow the rules because they are not convenient? In all fairness using the models is a bit of a hassle, why not just leave those at home? I mean you could show up with the plastic bases and the card board plaques for the bases, the dice app on your phone and a printed sheet of paper, then just insist on using your opponents templates and rulers. That would be far simpler, wouldn't it? No need to worry about packing and unpacking models, I mean who needs that hassle? After all, everything about the ship is on the cardboard plaque.

It doesn't matter if it's easier for you to use paper to represent your squad, your components are there for the benefit of your opponent as well. Show some respect for your opponent, and follow the same rules he is following

 

 

I really don't want to look at 7 different printouts over the coarse of the day. Just use the cards that I recognize and can identify from across the table. The most annoying thing to deal with on tournament day is everyone's goofy customized setup. I really want a more uniform setup that makes it easier for me to see what is what and where at a quick glance. Your convenience doesn't mean a hill of beans to me when I can't figure out what you have going on. Can you flip that crackshot over? Nope, so now I have to figure out and remember whatever dumb system you've come up with to represent the actual game components and their interactions.

 

Just use the components as the rules have dictated.

[VanorDM 11,599]

Just use the cards that I recognize and can identify from across the table. 

 

I may or may not object to someone using a list rather than cards... Although I've never seen anyone use a list, they've always had the cards out.

 

I can this for sure, as a TO if someone complained to me about someone not using the cards, the person with the list would have to produce the cards and put them on the table or I'd DQ them.

 

While a list may be faster, the rules are quite clear that you must use the cards.  If everyone is ok with a list then I figure it's no harm no foul, but if someone isn't ok with it, then you better be able to produce them.

[ScottieATF 2,867]

4. If the players demanded a way to rectify the match while it was going on, I would have asked them to try to back out the times it was used and penalized the player who unintentionally misinterpreted the rules based on when it was misused, to my best abilities, e.g. remove HP or even a ship from the board at that point.  BUT this was NOT officially requested during the game nor after the match.

Other than one player breaking the rules for his own convenience and then not conceding after the infraction became know, this stands out the most in this thread. Since when are players required to propose resolution to another player's breaking of the rules? Isn't that setting the event up for unfairness and inconsistent punishments?

Yeah, I too am awfully confused as to how a player misplayed an ability multiple times and apparently was able to do so without any penalty? Seems like a system ripe for abuse.

In an event I was TOing if it was realized that an ability had been misplayed, especially because of a non-standard game aid that the player brought, unless the misplay can be immediately reversed I'd have to give the offending player a game loss. So in this case unless they were in the same phase as the improperly Opportunisted attack and can easily and quickly roll back what has happened to make the proper roll, I'd have to give that player a game loss. I mean regardless of the reason, whether accidental or nefarious, you can't as a TO allow a player to misplay abilities to thier benefit.

[Jeff Wilder 5,326]

I want to be very, very clear.  I thought I had been, but I suppose clarity is subjective.

 

(1) I had cards.  The TO knew I had cards.

 

(2) My opponent expressed zero problem with playing from a (YA)SB list ... until he lost.  And even then, it was not to me.

 

(3) Neither my opponent, nor I, remembers if I got any benefit from misplaying Opportunist ... which I did once.  All we know for sure is that I ended up with an extra Stress.

 

(4) My opponent also misread the ability.  He did check it.

 

(5) If I did benefit, it was, at most, 1 HP of damage.  Even if that 1 HP of damage killed a TIE fighter, my opponent lost by significantly more than that.

 

(6) Here's the real irony:  I felt so bad for making the mistake that if my opponent has actually said to me anything even resembling, "I think I might have lost because of that," I would have conceded.  I had literally nothing to gain, as I have already won a Store Championship.  If he had simply spoken to me about it he'd have taken the win.  But it does take at least a basement level of courage to do that.

 

(7) Just so that I have this correct, some of you are actually saying that if, for example, a Rebel Captive were accidentally misplayed, the person who benefited from the accidental misplay must be assigned a game loss.  Is that correct?  Are you sticking with that?

[WickedGrey 982]

(7) Just so that I have this correct, some of you are actually saying that if, for example, a Rebel Captive were accidentally misplayed, the person who benefited from the accidental misplay must be assigned a game loss.  Is that correct?  Are you sticking with that?

I was about to ask the same thing, though I was going to say "spends a focus within r1 of Jax," or "forgets a Console Fire" (I was still deciding when Jeff's post went up).

[Sergovan 1,440]

This topic is off the rails.

 

The original question raised was "Can a T.O. allow a player to only bring a list of components instead of the actual cards?"

 

The answer is no. This is covered by the Tournament Rules, (quoted earlier by another member) under Player Materials, page 3. 

 

And this was not what actually happened. The player did have the cards so his list was legal for play.

 

Both players referenced a card text and misinterpreted its intent and misplayed it. They then had a T.O. over to correct the error.

 

Now both players are unhappy as a result.

 

Treat this as a learning example.

[Rinehart 684]

I want to be very, very clear.  I thought I had been, but I suppose clarity is subjective.

 

(1) I had cards.  The TO knew I had cards.

 

(2) My opponent expressed zero problem with playing from a (YA)SB list ... until he lost.  And even then, it was not to me.

 

(3) Neither my opponent, nor I, remembers if I got any benefit from misplaying Opportunist ... which I did once.  All we know for sure is that I ended up with an extra Stress.

 

(4) My opponent also misread the ability.  He did check it.

 

(5) If I did benefit, it was, at most, 1 HP of damage.  Even if that 1 HP of damage killed a TIE fighter, my opponent lost by significantly more than that.

 

(6) Here's the real irony:  I felt so bad for making the mistake that if my opponent has actually said to me anything even resembling, "I think I might have lost because of that," I would have conceded.  I had literally nothing to gain, as I have already won a Store Championship.  If he had simply spoken to me about it he'd have taken the win.  But it does take at least a basement level of courage to do that.

 

(7) Just so that I have this correct, some of you are actually saying that if, for example, a Rebel Captive were accidentally misplayed, the person who benefited from the accidental misplay must be assigned a game loss.  Is that correct?  Are you sticking with that?

 

I'm not saying that.  Things happen and things are missed during games.  I've seen Rebel Captive be missed many times.  I only said to put your cards on the table to avoid this type of mess.  If you have your cards on the table, and something is missed, then it's both players faults.  If you don't have your cards on the table, and something is missed in your favor, all you are doing is putting yourself at risk to be called out and disqualified.  If half the text for opportunist is hidden on the other side of a page, and it's misused to your advantage because of it, it could look really suspect to anyone that is judging the situation.