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DerFrownmacher

The Wolfpack, Builds and Escorts

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OH GOOD ANOTHER U-POGO-TOILET-SHIP TOPIC.

 

Well the others appear to have dived into exclusively balance grumbling or how to build AGAINST the dreaded Wolfpack, with its two main variations being ratio of Plasmas to Protons or going for full Protons but swapping one boat down to a Bumpmaster (APL, Feedback, Intelligence Agent).

 

Despite their minimal playtime, we appear to know how to build U Boats. Bumpmaster gives an edge versus Aces and other U Boats, while straight-up torpedo city cuts through other large ships, Phantoms, and regen a little better.

 

But what other options are there?

 

Two Proton-built U Boats leaves room for a ton of Scum's other incredibly rad mid-range pilots. Guri and Talonbane tend to run a little fat for the remaining 32 points, but slim options are possible. Palob has been discussed.

 

So what are the best options?

 

Raging AS 4-Lom, Juking 4-Lom, or 4-Lom with Zuckuss shotgun seems like it would be a good consistent damage dealer and draw some attention away from the still relatively fragile U-Boats, adding an element of control on top that may make up for the lack of Bumpmaster. Whether the tiny firepower advantage is worth losing the Bumpmaster's superior, well, bumping, I am not a good enough player to know.

 

Palob, as mentioned, is looking good, but how is he most helpful? Certainly a boon against other U-Boats, but do you build him for steady damage, sneaky support, or what? Heck, even Torkil has potential, negating a skilled enemy ship so that the twin-torpedo Alpha and his own turret can potentially finish it off before it gets a chance to shoot. 

 

Autoblaster EU Unhinged VI Kavil sqeaks in at 32 points, and is another good bit of anti-ace tech, consistent damage, and decent amount of hit points to burn through (especially due to some PS9 impotent Arc Dodging). As good as a Bumpmaster? 

 

Apparently I'm the only one that doesn't hate the YV-666, but 3 points of upgrades gives you a smattering of cheap crew, Glitterstim, or some Tactician antics. It also gives you a solid front of murder arc for people to worry about while your torpedo tubes with engines are coming around for another pass. 

 

So does anything provide steady enough performance to lose the additional Alpha potential or general silliness of the Bumpmaster? The answer may well be no, but if the Bumpmaster is viable...well, 32 points is a lot to work with, and Scum has no shortage of weird tricks that just might pull their weight. 

 

In b4 pls nerf U-Boat game isn't fun.

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That's a tough question with so little time under wave 8.

 

Ideally, you want an escort that can outlast the general usefulness of the alpha wolf you're dropping. All the options you presented can work, but which is best is still left to see.

 

4-LOM seems to be the safest bet, allying power, durability and utility on its belt. With 32 pts, you have considerable freedom in setting it up. We all know by now lots of different setups for it that are working.

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I am not certain yet what the answer to this question is.  Personally, every time I see list that go MAX builds (Take that one trick and max it out), they tend to do really well in the early going in the meta.  Then, after a few weeks, they get figured out, their holes are exposed, and a balance must be stuck to make the lists function in the meta.  Take the dreaded Quad TLT list for example.  Against newer, more inexperienced players it is a menace, a list to be feared.  Were as the vets know the list inside an out.  While it is still a challenge to play against, they are not surprised by its one trick, have built or planned against that trick, and can beat it pretty handily. 

I think the three Scout list will suffer the same fate.  It'll club seals sure, but the vets will have it figured out early (huge weakness is any list that can get out of the primary arcs where torpedoes do not fire or just action deny it so it can't shoot the big guns) and eventually we will see it drop to two with good escorts to fill those holes.  

Personally, I am thinking about going the other way, running a budget Ace for the 33 points or go low and run some Zs to block out the blockers and line up firing lanes.

Time will tell, but I really feel this list will have a short shelf life.

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Considering I played a match last night in which I had to turn my torp boat into a blocker, and due to this I won the match (even without having shot a torpedo), lists with "Bumpmaster" seems to be the builds I'm more intrigued by.

Constantly denying actions and not letting your opponent go where they want is so significant it cannot be overstated. Probably over burst damage...

Or, as you say, porque no los dos?

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Just a pity Scum is a little short on low cost Aces; a pair of U-boats would make a great combination.

 

If Omega Leader were Scum, for instance? Instant awesome. Nuke a ship, hammer away another... and oh dear, is that 1v1? Dear oh deary me. ;)

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Just a pity Scum is a little short on low cost Aces; a pair of U-boats would make a great combination.

If Omega Leader were Scum, for instance? Instant awesome. Nuke a ship, hammer away another... and oh dear, is that 1v1? Dear oh deary me. ;)

This rings so true. S&V needs a dedicated "closer" that fits in the 30 something point range like Soontir and Poe do for the other faction.

The StarViper would fit this role perfectly, it just needs a PS8/9 pilot with a decent ability.

Don't know how OP it would have been but if Guri was PS8 that would have been a legit ace.

Edited by VaynMaanen

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Crackshot and Glitterstim on Talonbane is exactly 32. I can't see much reason to run him fatter than that: like Wedge he's pretty brittle.

Repositioning would be my chief worry here. I am not keen to run Talon without EU, but perhaps I'm just a chump at reading my foes.

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Guri and Talonbane tend to run a little fat for the remaining 32 points

 

Crackshot and Glitterstim on Talonbane is exactly 32. I can't see much reason to run him fatter than that: like Wedge he's pretty brittle.

I'd rather just have a 32 point U-Boat at that point. Oh look, Talonbane died instantaneously, what a surprise.

You can put Intimidation, Intel Agent, Feedback array, and choice of anti-Pursuit Lasers or Ion Projector on a Contracted Scout. 32 points of "Taste it Soontir".

Or you could have Talonbane and accomplish absolutely nothing.

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Torkil Mux with a TLT and the crew of your choice. I ran this last night, 2 U-Boats and Mux. It worked really well. Normally Mux is an easy target, but not with the U-Boats drawing all the heat. His ability helps prevent the U-Boats from getting PS killed. And his TLT just lays down some consistent damage. I put a Tactician on him, but never used it. I also used some of the extra points for Feedback Arrays on the U-Boats. They didn't factor into my game either, but I can see them helping in other matches. Oh and Mux is PS3 as well so you can move him out of the way of your scouts easily. 
 
Here was my list...
 
Torkil Mux (19)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Tactician (2)
 
Contracted Scout (25)
Deadeye (1)
Proton Torpedoes (4)
Extra Munitions (2)
Boba Fett (1)
R4 Agromech (2)
Feedback Array (2)
Guidance Chips (0)
 
Contracted Scout (25)
Deadeye (1)
Proton Torpedoes (4)
Extra Munitions (2)
R4 Agromech (2)
Feedback Array (2)
Guidance Chips (0)
 
Total: 100
 
View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Edited by Bowser

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I've tried a Black Sun Ace a couple of games. Equipped with Homing Missiles, Crack Shot, Glitterstim and Guidance Chips. It gives you a slight edge against higher agility ships that rely on evade tokens and dice to survive. However, the tough part is getting the TL and arc. After the missile has been fired you'll still have 3 attack dice to finish up with. It's worked out decently, but I've yet to try it against some meta lists. I'll take it to a game night tomorrow, we'll see how it fares. It lands on 31p, so you'll have 1p left for initiative bid or Boba Fett on on of the Scouts.

 

Another option I've considered is a Gand Findsman with Crack Shot, FCS, Outlaw Tech, Mist Hunter and Tractor Beam. It's kitted out to pursue torpedo survivors, dealing the last blows needed for the kill. With the Tractor Beam it'll also be able to help the Scouts with arcs by rolling or boosting enemy ships into range/arc.

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Contracted Scout with Deadeye, R4 Agromech, Guidance Chips, EM, Proton Torpedoes, 4-LOM - 35 points

Contracted Scout with Deadeye, R4 Agromech, Guidance Chips, EM, Proton Torpedoes - 34 points

Contracted Scout with Deadeye, R4 Agromech, Guidance Chips, Plasma Torpedoes - 31 points

OR

Contracted Scout with Deadeye, Overclocked R4, Guidance Chips, Flechette Torpedoes x2 - 31 points

The jump from Plasmas to Protons is great, 4-LOM crew puts the hurt on aces and I get one use of it for 'free' since a single ion token does nothing to a large base, and you can live with only 5 torpedoes instead of 6 as you often lose a JM with a torpedo in the tube still, or you can then just push the one without torpedoes out front as a bumpmaster.

Edited by ParaGoomba Slayer

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I am going to try out to use one of two lists, though I think the one is going to be more useful than the other:

 

1: Kavil with Rage, TLT, and Unhinged = 32 pts.  I like the idea of kavil getting 3 rerolls on 4 shot TLT,  Using him as either a closer, finishing off guys that U-boats soften up, or to strip off tokens before the U-boats fire.  

 

2: Serissu with a tractor beam and Juke = 25, letting both of my U-boats take Protons and Recon spec.  This was more of an idea of using the Tractor beam to shove enemies in/out of arc, etc, and make the U-boats hit harder, and be slightly more defensive.  

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What about N'dru with Lone Wolf and... Stealth Device? He seems like the best 'survivor Ace' available to Scum at less than 35 points.

 

With him and two Jumpmasters, you could have the points to upgrade all the JMs to R4 Agros, Proton Torps, AND Feedback Arrays, with enough leftover points for upgrading one JM to Tel Travura - and one point left for putting Greedo on the lower JM, or changing N'dru's Stealth Device to an Engine Upgrade for arcdodginess, or somehow find two points to change Tel to Dengar - but I like Tel.

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Torkil Mux with a TLT and the crew of your choice. I ran this last night, 2 U-Boats and Mux. It worked really well. Normally Mux is an easy target, but not with the U-Boats drawing all the heat. His ability helps prevent the U-Boats from getting PS killed. And his TLT just lays down some consistent damage. I put a Tactician on him, but never used it. I also used some of the extra points for Feedback Arrays on the U-Boats. They didn't factor into my game either, but I can see them helping in other matches. Oh and Mux is PS3 as well so you can move him out of the way of your scouts easily. 

 

Here was my list...

 

Torkil Mux (19)

Twin Laser Turret (6)

Tactician (2)

 

Contracted Scout (25)

Deadeye (1)

Proton Torpedoes (4)

Extra Munitions (2)

Boba Fett (1)

R4 Agromech (2)

Feedback Array (2)

Guidance Chips (0)

 

Contracted Scout (25)

Deadeye (1)

Proton Torpedoes (4)

Extra Munitions (2)

R4 Agromech (2)

Feedback Array (2)

Guidance Chips (0)

 

Total: 100

 

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Torkil Mux. Cloaking Device. Dorsal Turret. Moldy Crow. He sticks around under his cloak for as long as possible, messing up enemy shooting order and building up focus tokens for the endgame, while the Contracted Scouts tear the opposition apart. Finding 4 points gives him a TLT instead for his shooting (and makes all those focus tokens even stronger!), but Dorsal Turret is better IMHO because his donut is easily exploited.

 

I know I'd rather dive past the JMs to kill Torkil, he IS the priority target over u-boats.

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I've run N,dru with glitterstim, lone wolf, cluster missiles and chips alongside 2 jump masters. Used the spare points for protons on both jump masters as well as recon spec.

This is definitely the route I want to try out.

Edit: Came up with something a little different:

Contracted Scout (25)

Deadeye (1)

Proton Torpedoes (4)

Extra Munitions (2)

Outlaw Tech (2)

R4 Agromech (2)

Guidance Chips (0)

Contracted Scout (25)

Deadeye (1)

Proton Torpedoes (4)

Extra Munitions (2)

Outlaw Tech (2)

R4 Agromech (2)

Guidance Chips (0)

N'Dru Suhlak (17)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Homing Missiles (5)

Glitterstim (2)

Guidance Chips (0)

Total: 97

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Taking a slight initiative bid and bringing N'dru to PS9. With Homing, Glitter, Chimps he has a 5 dice attack that's got a good shot at hitting all 5 and I don't think any ship can dodge all the hits unless it has an obstacle, because it prevents evade tokens.

Edited by Skargoth

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Have tried out Torkil with stealth device and x2 jumpmasters and worked fine, also played a ruthless freelancer just with Title and FCS and Zuckuss crew and worked OK as well. The jumpmasters seem to take a lot of heat with opponents trying to take one out before it gets to use all it's ordnance. 

 

Also is anyone else thinking about trying out Overclocked R4 + Advanced Proton Torps?? or am I the only one who wants to pay 6 points for a pretty much guaranteed 5 hit attack (well only 99.9% chance). 

 

Contracted Scout (25)

Advanced Proton Torpedoes (6)

Plasma Torpedoes (3)

Overclocked R4 (1)

Deadeye (1)

Guidance Chips (0)

 

That's 36 points and the plan would be a range 3 initial engagement then range 1. Thinking of this because I normally manage to get the first torp off then struggle sometimes in getting to range 2-3 for the second one. Shame their isn't a cheaper Range 1 option for torps though as 6 points seems pretty overpriced. 

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I saw a scout list elsewhere on the forum that I want to fly.

 

2x Contracted Scout - GCips, Deadeye, Plasma torps, EM, R4 Agromech 

2x Binarye pilots - Hull Upgrade, Feedback Array 

 

Scouts 66 points

Pirates 34 points

Total: 100

Edited by joliversc

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game is quite fun with uboats :D

 

 

imo, the answer is two proton torp boats with the misthunter crew (because when you only have two shots each, you gotta make em count; helps leverage the crappy PWT); one proton --> plasma for bid v opposing uboats

 

and minimal manaroo (Adaptability, int agent, feedback)

 

Manaroo completely and utterly changes the playstyle of the list, allowing for an almost incalculable amount of added flexibility by enabling deadeye after

  •  
  • blocks (including self-blocks)
  • b-rolls
  • 4k or right segnors
  • going over obstacles
  • oodles and oodles of stress for whatever reason

 

 

 

opening up torps on self-block is especially amazing because you can dump torps on a poor ace that got screwed over by bump-city

 

12916767_10156711970150142_6644839571048

 

 

 

Manaroo also enables Zuckuss crew on a proton torpboat, and that's just disgusting

Edited by ficklegreendice

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