Are imperials even good Anymore?

[CaptainAl 30]

this is just what i have noticed, but rebels and scum get all these op ships and all the imperials get is another mediocre arc dodger. i feel that imperials are dying away ever since TLTs became a thing. every tournament i have been to lately there have been less imperials in the top 8. Is there any way that imperials can deal with the ghost and and triple jumpmasters or is it time to put the imperial ships on the shelf and wait until imperial veterans?

 

[ObiWonka 7,081]

This again?

[Papamambo 339]

Really?  I think that Imperials are just fine.  TIE Advanced are huge in our meta, frequently coming in the top 3 in one form or another.  The last Store Championships I saw had 4 of them (Vader w/Predator, EU, Title, ATC, and 3x Tempests with Titles and Accuracy Correctors).  Soontir sees a lot of play, and with Omega Leader lurking, he finds his way into more and more lists.  I don't think the Imperials need much help at all personally.  That being said, I can't wait for Veterans to drop, but things seems just fine in our neck of the woods.

[CaptainAl 30]

Really?  I think that Imperials are just fine.  TIE Advanced are huge in our meta, frequently coming in the top 3 in one form or another.  The last Store Championships I saw had 4 of them (Vader w/Predator, EU, Title, ATC, and 3x Tempests with Titles and Accuracy Correctors).  Soontir sees a lot of play, and with Omega Leader lurking, he finds his way into more and more lists.  I don't think the Imperials need much help at all personally.  That being said, I can't wait for Veterans to drop, but things seems just fine in our neck of the woods.

was this before wave 8? and just look at the is forum. you will hear people talking about all the possibilities of the the ghost and jumpmaster, but you never hear anyone talking about the TAP. i just feel that imperials don't have much of a chance against the ghost and the jumpmaster. 

[Papamambo 339]

I just picked up a Ghost - unfortunately, only a Ghost, because that's all the money I had this past weekend.  But I did have a chance to play with the TAP at my friend's place as he had bought 2.  I loved them.  They're very much a cross between the Advanced and an Interceptor, having few of the drawbacks, and many of the plusses of both.  Running the Inquisitor essentially gave me a more durable Tie Interceptor.  With PTL, he can Arc Dodge with the best of them, throwing out 3 dice attacks at every range, with Autothrusters, and essentially a free evade (provided you Target Lock with the title).  He's a beast.  And CHEAP!

 

Don't count the Imperials out just because the Rebels and Scum got some lovin'.  The Imperials will do just fine.  As soon as I have some cash, I'm picking up 3-4 TAP's

[ObiWonka 7,081]

The Ghost (and JumpMaster) also has many many more options in a much more expensive frame compared to the TAP. That has a lot to do with discussing possibilities.

[CaptainAl 30]

I just picked up a Ghost - unfortunately, only a Ghost, because that's all the money I had this past weekend.  But I did have a chance to play with the TAP at my friend's place as he had bought 2.  I loved them.  They're very much a cross between the Advanced and an Interceptor, having few of the drawbacks, and many of the plusses of both.  Running the Inquisitor essentially gave me a more durable Tie Interceptor.  With PTL, he can Arc Dodge with the best of them, throwing out 3 dice attacks at every range, with Autothrusters, and essentially a free evade (provided you Target Lock with the title).  He's a beast.  And CHEAP!

 

Don't count the Imperials out just because the Rebels and Scum got some lovin'.  The Imperials will do just fine.  As soon as I have some cash, I'm picking up 3-4 TAP's

What will you be running in your imperials to counter the new meta? I'm am going to regionals soon and i will be taking imperials (only faction i have) and I'm not sure what i could run that would be competitive enough to do well

[Papamambo 339]

Well, I've had great success with a few builds actually.  I'm toying with a couple of lists actually (based on what I currently have available, this may change if I'm able to scrape some cash together to pick up some TAP's)

 

Here's list 1 - Hate my Eights 100 points

 

Carnor Jax, PTL, Autothrusters, Royal Guard Title, and Stealth Device

Omega Leader,  Juke, Stealth Device, Comm Relay

Echo, Veteran Instincts, FCS, Advanced Cloaking Device

 

Carnor and Omega Leader are just d!cks to fly against.  Echo is hard to pin down because of some crazy movement.  I've flown the list a few times, and picked opponents of all sorts apart with it.  The only game I've lost with it so far has been due to time (and an unfortunate piloting error on my behalf - flew Echo off the board before he had a chance to fire a single shot)

 

List 2 100 points

 

Darth Vader, Squad Leader, Engine Upgrade, Title, ATC

Soontir Fel, PTL, AutoThrusters, Stealth Device, Title

Omega Leader, Juke, Stealth Device, Comm Relay

 

(Sensing a trend here?  I love Omega Leader and have always loved me some Squints..)

 

List 3 (if I can grab a couple of TAP's)

Jedi Hunters 98 Points

 

Darth Vader, Squad Leader, Proton Rockets, Engine Upgrade, Tie/X1, ATC

The Inquisitor, PTL, Autothrusters, Tie/V1

Valen Rudor, PTL, Autothrusters, Tie/V1

 

This last list comes in at 98 points - good Initiative bid, or you could throw Thread Tracers on both the TAP's to give them free target locks (and anyone else that's within range 1-2 of you), and essentially Free Evades for the TAP's.

 

The thing I love about the TAP's is that 1 hard green.  Your opponent knows it's coming, but there isn't too much he can do about it - just like the white K-turn of the Defender.

[CaptainAl 30]

Well, I've had great success with a few builds actually.  I'm toying with a couple of lists actually (based on what I currently have available, this may change if I'm able to scrape some cash together to pick up some TAP's)

 

Here's list 1 - Hate my Eights 100 points

 

Carnor Jax, PTL, Autothrusters, Royal Guard Title, and Stealth Device

Omega Leader,  Juke, Stealth Device, Comm Relay

Echo, Veteran Instincts, FCS, Advanced Cloaking Device

 

Carnor and Omega Leader are just d!cks to fly against.  Echo is hard to pin down because of some crazy movement.  I've flown the list a few times, and picked opponents of all sorts apart with it.  The only game I've lost with it so far has been due to time (and an unfortunate piloting error on my behalf - flew Echo off the board before he had a chance to fire a single shot)

 

List 2 100 points

 

Darth Vader, Squad Leader, Engine Upgrade, Title, ATC

Soontir Fel, PTL, AutoThrusters, Stealth Device, Title

Omega Leader, Juke, Stealth Device, Comm Relay

 

(Sensing a trend here?  I love Omega Leader and have always loved me some Squints..)

 

List 3 (if I can grab a couple of TAP's)

Jedi Hunters 98 Points

 

Darth Vader, Squad Leader, Proton Rockets, Engine Upgrade, Tie/X1, ATC

The Inquisitor, PTL, Autothrusters, Tie/V1

Valen Rudor, PTL, Autothrusters, Tie/V1

 

This last list comes in at 98 points - good Initiative bid, or you could throw Thread Tracers on both the TAP's to give them free target locks (and anyone else that's within range 1-2 of you), and essentially Free Evades for the TAP's.

 

The thing I love about the TAP's is that 1 hard green.  Your opponent knows it's coming, but there isn't too much he can do about it - just like the white K-turn of the Defender.

I want to try the first list, but is there any way you can fit in soontir?

[FuturistiKen 316]

this is just what i have noticed, but rebels and scum get all these op ships and all the imperials get is another mediocre arc dodger. i feel that imperials are dying away ever since TLTs became a thing. every tournament i have been to lately there have been less imperials in the top 8. Is there any way that imperials can deal with the ghost and and triple jumpmasters or is it time to put the imperial ships on the shelf and wait until imperial veterans?

 

Let's all just take a deep breath.

 

To be fair, I live in Alaska and we got our Wave 8 ships a little later than the rest of the US (maybe the rest of the world?) but I just don't think we have nearly enough data for these kind of conclusions.  One of the awesome things about X-Wing is how skill-intensive it is, and how a "good" player with a "decent" list can still be very competitive against a "worse" player with the "best" list.

 

Fly what you like.  Fly what you're good at.  You'll always have good match-ups and bad match-ups, but be sure to consider the possibility that you just need to adapt the way your fly your current list if the "new meta" is giving you struggles.

Edited March 23, 2016 by FuturistiKen

[Chillmire 57]

 

Really?  I think that Imperials are just fine.  TIE Advanced are huge in our meta, frequently coming in the top 3 in one form or another.  The last Store Championships I saw had 4 of them (Vader w/Predator, EU, Title, ATC, and 3x Tempests with Titles and Accuracy Correctors).  Soontir sees a lot of play, and with Omega Leader lurking, he finds his way into more and more lists.  I don't think the Imperials need much help at all personally.  That being said, I can't wait for Veterans to drop, but things seems just fine in our neck of the woods.

was this before wave 8? and just look at the is forum. you will hear people talking about all the possibilities of the the ghost and jumpmaster, but you never hear anyone talking about the TAP. i just feel that imperials don't have much of a chance against the ghost and the jumpmaster. 

 

That's because the Ghost and Phantom combination has a lot of customisation, whereas like other Imperial aces the TAP is another one of those ships. Saying you never hear anyone talking about the TAP though is a bit of a stretch...

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/206041-inquisitor-or-vader/

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/206009-so-i-got-a-tap/

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/206197-the-inquisitor-2-siener-pilots-and-captain-jonus/

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/206033-help-me-tap-into-redlines-full-potential/

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/206250-inquisitors-swarm/

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/206371-tap-omega-and-doomdeci/

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/206362-sienar-test-pilot-title-17-pts/

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/205951-decitap/

There's probably more, but three pages of results is probably enough to justify people talk about it

[Papamambo 339]

You could drop Veteran Instincts from Echo, or the Stealth Device from Omega Leader I suppose.  But the idea of having Carnor in there with Omega Leader is what makes the list fun.  Carnor prevents your opponents from Focusing or Evading or using those tokens, and Omega Leader prevents pretty much everything else.  They work really well together.

 

I understand the idea behind wanting Turtle-man Soontir, but in this list he just doesn't do it for me..

[CaptainAl 30]

i wrote a list that I'm going to try.

 

Vader

VI

Title

EU

Prockets

ADV targeting computer

 

Inquisitor 

PTL

Tilte

AT

 

OGP

Palp

 

total:98 or i could drop the shuttle for omega leader juke, comm relay and stealth device

[Papamambo 339]

i wrote a list that I'm going to try.

 

Vader

VI

Title

EU

Prockets

ADV targeting computer

 

Inquisitor 

PTL

Tilte

AT

 

OGP

Palp

 

total:98 or i could drop the shuttle for omega leader juke, comm relay and stealth device

Looks like a solid list. I'm partial to Omega Leader, but that's because I don't have a Palpatine yet (should be arriving any day via an online trade I made). Palpatine will give you some interesting options, just a few suggestions though - make sure you're target locking every turn with the Inquisitor to take advantage of the free evade from the title. Focus, boost, Barrel Roll, whatever. Just make sure you TL first - even if you reacquire a target lock on the same ship.

As an example - move as normal, Target Lock FIRST, get the free Evade and THEN push the Limit to do your next action. If you target lock as your second action, you get stressed, preventing you from getting the free evade.

Second point - don't forget about the Palpmobile. Use Papa Palpatine every opportunity you get.

Third - have fun!

[CaptainAl 30]

 

i wrote a list that I'm going to try.

 

Vader

VI

Title

EU

Prockets

ADV targeting computer

 

Inquisitor 

PTL

Tilte

AT

 

OGP

Palp

 

total:98 or i could drop the shuttle for omega leader juke, comm relay and stealth device

Looks like a solid list. I'm partial to Omega Leader, but that's because I don't have a Palpatine yet (should be arriving any day via an online trade I made). Palpatine will give you some interesting options, just a few suggestions though - make sure you're target locking every turn with the Inquisitor to take advantage of the free evade from the title. Focus, boost, Barrel Roll, whatever. Just make sure you TL first - even if you reacquire a target lock on the same ship.

As an example - move as normal, Target Lock FIRST, get the free Evade and THEN push the Limit to do your next action. If you target lock as your second action, you get stressed, preventing you from getting the free evade.

Second point - don't forget about the Palpmobile. Use Papa Palpatine every opportunity you get.

Third - have fun!

 

thanks for the pointers

[Sixgun387 69]

I think Carnor, if flown well, can be an important part of countering Jumpmasters. Wave 8 does seem to be the ordinance meta wave. Be curious to see what people do with Defenders and TIE Shuttles once Imp Vets hits.

[joliversc 23]

I've been playing this list in my local TL/Torp Meta. It became useful after the Tie Punisher and K-Wing came onto the scene.

 

Soontir Fel

Stealth Device

AutoThrusters

Royal Tie Title

PTL

 

Carnor Jax

Stealth Device

Autothrusters

Royal Guard Title

PTL

 

Captain Kagi

Hull Upgrade

Enhanced Sensors

 

Kagi forces the ships with the ordinance to TL it before anything else leaving the interceptors free to do their damage before the Shuttle is dead. I haven't tried it against a Jumpmaster heavy list but I'm looking forward to it. Of course the Ghost/Phantom - Autoblaster lists will shred my interceptor aces these days but that's what make the game challenging.

[banjobenito 1,393]

I've been playing this list in my local TL/Torp Meta. It became useful after the Tie Punisher and K-Wing came onto the scene.

 

Soontir Fel

Stealth Device

AutoThrusters

Royal Tie Title

PTL

 

Carnor Jax

Stealth Device

Autothrusters

Royal Guard Title

PTL

 

Captain Kagi

Hull Upgrade

Enhanced Sensors

 

Kagi forces the ships with the ordinance to TL it before anything else leaving the interceptors free to do their damage before the Shuttle is dead. I haven't tried it against a Jumpmaster heavy list but I'm looking forward to it. Of course the Ghost/Phantom - Autoblaster lists will shred my interceptor aces these days but that's what make the game challenging.

Sorry to break it to you, but your list won't work against the wolfpack. They're all running deadeye, as is the other dangerous scum ordnance carrier, N'dru.

[darthEvader 2]

i wrote a list that I'm going to try.

 

Vader

VI

Title

EU

Prockets

ADV targeting computer

 

Inquisitor 

PTL

Tilte

AT

 

OGP

Palp

 

total:98 or i could drop the shuttle for omega leader juke, comm relay and stealth device

 

I played this list against dual Jumps and got smoked. Just couldn't hit hard enough  

[MrAndersson 219]

this is just what i have noticed, but rebels and scum get all these op ships and all the imperials get is another mediocre arc dodger. i feel that imperials are dying away ever since TLTs became a thing. every tournament i have been to lately there have been less imperials in the top 8. Is there any way that imperials can deal with the ghost and and triple jumpmasters or is it time to put the imperial ships on the shelf and wait until imperial veterans?

 

If you had posted that 6 months ago, I would have agreed with you. But right now, I feel the Empire is better than ever and finally on par with the rebels.

 

As much as TLTs are boring, they did kill the dominance of Fat Han and for that I am forever thankful.

 

 

Yes, the Empire got the least out of Wave 8. But remember, Imperial Veterans isn't far away. Not sure if it is going to have the impact a lot of people on this forum think, but it will definitely make the Defender playable.

[TwoDeeSix 56]

I'm from the camp that says the game is pretty good, and a lot of fun. I just wish I could get more time for games, regardless of wins or losses. 

I don't spend my time trying to math-hammer out the best possible list, and be left thinking everyone else has it better than me. 

Constantly comparing leads to unhappiness - good life advice. 

That said, I think Imperials are plenty good.  They have a nice theme, lots of choices, and you can work out a list that delivers what you want, for the most part.  I don't think the Imperial lists come up short, but, it wouldn't be a sport if the underdog didn't have a chance of winning - against the theorists, and the odds. 

[blade_mercurial 2,091]

 

I played this list against dual Jumps and got smoked. Just couldn't hit hard enough

The list hits plenty hard enough. If you had a bad game, it happens, but its not the list's fault. And this is the biggest reason why people struggle with Imperials: the ships are relatively fragile and live or die by outflying the opponent. If you end up not able to get superior positioning on your opponent, then you struggle to win. Its a big part of the faction. And its a reason why you see more people using rebels or scum (its just easier to win with those factions). That doesn't make imperials inferior though. It just means you need to practice more

Having said that, Omega Leader is not a good ship vs 'u-boats'. He can stop one of them from hurting him, but not the other two. He also doesn't deal enough damage to make a big impact before he inevitably dies, unless you can bait the opponent to go after something else in your list first (like Carnor Jax for example).

TL;DR----imperials are fine and working as intended. If you want to win with imperials, stick to 1 list and practice the hell out of it. Ge to the point where you know exactly what moves you need to do in many different situations to give your ships the best positioning for staying alive and for getting unanswered shots in. High risk, high reward!

[Sanguinary Dan 468]

I really love the Imperial feel right now. Sure, I suck with Rebels. But the Empire has some great options and strengths that the Rebels can't match.

And Veterans must be pretty close as my FLGS let me preorder it. Now that could be a good sign or just them getting a feel before it actually appears on their sheet.

Regardless of the TLT and U-boat issues the Empire is only going to get stronger. Still having to rely on green dice, but a lot of fun to fly.

[ObiWonka 7,081]

 

Well, I've had great success with a few builds actually.  I'm toying with a couple of lists actually (based on what I currently have available, this may change if I'm able to scrape some cash together to pick up some TAP's)

 

Here's list 1 - Hate my Eights 100 points

 

Carnor Jax, PTL, Autothrusters, Royal Guard Title, and Stealth Device

Omega Leader,  Juke, Stealth Device, Comm Relay

Echo, Veteran Instincts, FCS, Advanced Cloaking Device

I want to try the first list, but is there any way you can fit in soontir?

Targeting Computer over Stealth Device.

[Jo Jo 4,808]

Don't forget Bombers.

 

My new favorite is: Gamma + Homing + EM + Chips for 25 points. Throw on a bomb if you can fit it. They hit harder than a HLC with a TL. They also shoot before most generics (including scouts) so TLs aren't that hard.

Edited March 23, 2016 by Jo Jo