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Holmelund

A new video of suspect Dial handling

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That's not 'appears' to change the dial, that is flat out cheating!  You can see him change the dial clear as crystal!  

Ugh!  I love this game but this stuff has to come to an end.  You are on camera!

See above update from local. It wasn't cheating. You should mention this on nova as it is a growing problem. False accusations of cheating hurt all of us.
 

You should watch the video, mate.

He clearly lifts the dial, turns it over so you can see the maneuver in the camera, then moves it to another maneuver.

Just because that guy wrote that "they players have worked it out", doesn't mean the guy didn't cheat.

I did. I can't tell what is happening there for sure. You do know there are multiple abilities that let you change your dial, right?
Sure, but he does all this when the opponent is away from the table.

Surely, even if you have an ability that lets you change the dial, you are obliged to wait until the opponent is back at the table, since all (at least to my recollection) of those abilities have limits that are dependant on your previously chosen maneuver.

Speaking of, is there any ruling on making your moves while the opponent is not at the table, in the first place?

ps. and you can't tell me he isn't moving the dial, that's clear as day. If you can't see that, you might want to get your eyes checked. 

I'm being serious here, if you can't see it, you shoud check your eyes. Because it's clear as day (are you not looking at full-screen maby?)

Not in-screen is not the same as away.

You have no idea what the dial said before or after.

You have no idea if there was some earlier infraction and this was the compromise.

You don't know what builds were in play.

You flat out do not know what happened.

Of course I don't.

And neither do you.

But what I DO know is that he picks up the dial, turns it over to look at it, moves the dial to another maneuver, all before showing the maneuver to his opponent.

Now, let's say you and I are playing.

You're standing there, right infront of me. I do this exact thing. I pick up my dial, turn it over and look at it, move the dial to another maneuver, and then show it to you.

Is there ANY situation that would let me do this?

Any at all?

I'm genuinely asking here, because I can't think of any situation that would let me do this.

Stay on Target.(explains why he picks up a stress after the maneuver)

Juno Eclipse.

You showed me the dial beforehand so I knew what it was.

There was only one obvious move to make.

I had accidentally flipped your dial earlier and we resolved the error amongst ourselves by letting you pick your maneuver after mine.

We were both having a laugh at the squeaky sound that your dial makes.(True story)

I can thing of a half-dozen others. But the point is that we the viewer do not and cannot know what actually took place. But the damning from denizens of the Internet will be absolute, immediate and longterm.

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That's not 'appears' to change the dial, that is flat out cheating!  You can see him change the dial clear as crystal!  

Ugh!  I love this game but this stuff has to come to an end.  You are on camera!

See above update from local. It wasn't cheating. You should mention this on nova as it is a growing problem. False accusations of cheating hurt all of us.
 

You should watch the video, mate.

He clearly lifts the dial, turns it over so you can see the maneuver in the camera, then moves it to another maneuver.

Just because that guy wrote that "they players have worked it out", doesn't mean the guy didn't cheat.

I did. I can't tell what is happening there for sure. You do know there are multiple abilities that let you change your dial, right?
Sure, but he does all this when the opponent is away from the table.

Surely, even if you have an ability that lets you change the dial, you are obliged to wait until the opponent is back at the table, since all (at least to my recollection) of those abilities have limits that are dependant on your previously chosen maneuver.

Speaking of, is there any ruling on making your moves while the opponent is not at the table, in the first place?

ps. and you can't tell me he isn't moving the dial, that's clear as day. If you can't see that, you might want to get your eyes checked. 

I'm being serious here, if you can't see it, you shoud check your eyes. Because it's clear as day (are you not looking at full-screen maby?)

Not in-screen is not the same as away.

You have no idea what the dial said before or after.

You have no idea if there was some earlier infraction and this was the compromise.

You don't know what builds were in play.

You flat out do not know what happened.

Of course I don't.

And neither do you.

But what I DO know is that he picks up the dial, turns it over to look at it, moves the dial to another maneuver, all before showing the maneuver to his opponent.

Now, let's say you and I are playing.

You're standing there, right infront of me. I do this exact thing. I pick up my dial, turn it over and look at it, move the dial to another maneuver, and then show it to you.

Is there ANY situation that would let me do this?

Any at all?

I'm genuinely asking here, because I can't think of any situation that would let me do this.

Stay on Target.(explains why he picks up a stress after the maneuver) Yeah, that doesn't let you change the dial before showing it to the opponent.

Juno Eclipse. Same as above, and you don't actually change the maneuver dial, since it's actually impossible in some of the choices.

You showed me the dial beforehand so I knew what it was. But the entire match is recorded, so we know he didn't.

There was only one obvious move to make. I'm sorry, what? Are you telling me I don't have to show you my dial if "there's only one obvious move to make"?

I had accidentally flipped your dial earlier and we resolved the error amongst ourselves by letting you pick your maneuver after mine. Again, we see that doesn't happen in the video.

We were both having a laugh at the squeaky sound that your dial makes.(True story) Not really working when the other person isn't there.

I can thing of a half-dozen others. But the point is that we the viewer do not and cannot know what actually took place. But the damning from denizens of the Internet will be absolute, immediate and longterm. There still is NO situation where I am allowed to pick up my dial and change the maneuver before showing it to you in tournament play, which is what is happening in that video.

 

Answers in the quote (because some of those were just dumb in the context, and each one needed an individual answer.)

Anyway, I'm going to bed now.

Long day of playing X-wing at work tomorrow :P

 

Edited by OddballE8

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This was bound to happen once X-wing surpassed 40K in popularity. All the trolls come over here.

 

The trolls don't really care for the game that they play nor do they care what game they play. They just want to impose their self-perceived superiority over other players.

 

Well the good news is that 40k players will now have some respite from this nonsense, now the only thing that is trolling Warhammer fans is GW and not @$$#* players.

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I'm no expert, and won't comment on wether he changed the dial or not, but one simple rule fixes all of this:

"After the Planning phase, if a player wishes to look at one of his dials, he must inform the opponent first. Manipulating dials after the Planning phase will not be tolerated."

X-Wing FAQ, under Competitive Play.

This was a very simple way to avoid this issue. Just ask your opponent if you can look at your dial. It's common courtesy and alleviates any suspicion of your intentions.

Ironically, this rule was removed after the latest FAQ. Probably should be added back.

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Oh, boy.

 

My translations (not a professional BTW) of the german posts linked above. 

 

 

ComStar:  The tournament is a topic of discussion at FFG ( i.e. the forums)

 

Wakasa: Evening,  I noticed that myself that evening as I watched the videos of my games.  I sent a note to Kettch that night that the situation looks really bad.  I am not sure what exactly happened, but I think that maybe I turned the dial "cleanly."

 

Kettch:  I can confirm that. Jan had already written to me the morning after, pointed out the issue and apologized for touching the dial while I was away.  You should give him credit at this point that he turned down making the cut in favor of Leon Boeck (they were tied even down to tie breakers).

 

ComStar: Maybe someone (involved) should post at FFG before the Americans talk themselves into a rage again.

 

DasMaddin: too late, ComStar.

 

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I dont know how the players can have worked out among themself that it is not an infraction of the rules.

Player A leaves the table.
While he is away Player B looks at his dial and changes it.

Even if he had Stay on Target he was still obliged to show the original move to the opponent, and he did not.
 

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Is it healthy or helpful to post these kind of one-off instances of cheating on public boards? They are rare. They are dealt with locally. All posting them here does is prime a bunch of players to actively look for instances of cheating. Then they post what they think was cheating(it wasn't, in a couple of recent cases) and the feedback reinforces itself. It makes the game worse for all of us.

Just report it to your TO's and keep it off the net.

No, people need to realize that there are some legitimate cheaters that play this game and to be on guard.

Accusations of cheating are only poison for fun if you're one of those militant casuals that isn't actually cheating, but gets salty even though he has nothing to hide.

I've been playing this game for over a year, most games in tournaments. I've been damage deck checked exactly zero times. If I was a cheater, I could take out a handful of cards and I would never get caught. Can't accuse anyone of cheating, that's poisonous to fun, right?

Accusations about loaded dice are ridiculous, however all the accused player has to do is swap dice.

Also, even if he never changed his dial, he still cheated. You have to ask/notify your opponent that you're doing that beforehand.

This is how much of a stupid hugbox this place is, we can't even discuss real instances of cheating.

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... Given the, "guilty until proven innocent," mentality that tends to surround cheating, People have very good reason to be afraid of accusations of cheating.

Granted, I'm a Discworld fan, so I can't hear the phrase, "the innocent have nothing to fear," without cringing, so I might be overreacting to your tone, Paragoomba.

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Ehm? That's an open manipulation of the Dial ... it's Vader with PS 10 - so no Stay on Target or Juno Eclipse Stuff ... 

With the new move, Vader was able to fly over Carnor and to avoid the Range 2 Shot from Chiraneau with Vader...

 

That's more than obvious.

 

What's wrong with the people? There is a CAMERA ... come on. Thats like ******' London during the 2011 riots - everywhere cameras, but people still are stealing **** ... 

Edited by Nickos13

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Is it healthy or helpful to post these kind of one-off instances of cheating on public boards? They are rare. They are dealt with locally. All posting them here does is prime a bunch of players to actively look for instances of cheating. Then they post what they think was cheating(it wasn't, in a couple of recent cases) and the feedback reinforces itself. It makes the game worse for all of us.

Just report it to your TO's and keep it off the net.

No, people need to realize that there are some legitimate cheaters that play this game and to be on guard.

Accusations of cheating are only poison for fun if you're one of those militant casuals that isn't actually cheating, but gets salty even though he has nothing to hide.

I've been playing this game for over a year, most games in tournaments. I've been damage deck checked exactly zero times. If I was a cheater, I could take out a handful of cards and I would never get caught. Can't accuse anyone of cheating, that's poisonous to fun, right?

Accusations about loaded dice are ridiculous, however all the accused player has to do is swap dice.

Also, even if he never changed his dial, he still cheated. You have to ask/notify your opponent that you're doing that beforehand.

This is how much of a stupid hugbox this place is, we can't even discuss real instances of cheating.

As usual, you miss the point being made and add assumptions about the poster that are not justified by the post. This has nothing to do with it being a "hugbox". It has to do with how often people are publicly and falsely accused of cheating. Edited by TasteTheRainbow

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Oh, boy.

 

My translations (not a professional BTW) of the german posts linked above. 

 

 

ComStar:  The tournament is a topic of discussion at FFG ( i.e. the forums)

 

Wakasa: Evening,  I noticed that myself that evening as I watched the videos of my games.  I sent a note to Kettch that night that the situation looks really bad.  I am not sure what exactly happened, but I think that maybe I turned the dial "cleanly."

 

Kettch:  I can confirm that. Jan had already written to me the morning after, pointed out the issue and apologized for touching the dial while I was away.  You should give him credit at this point that he turned down making the cut in favor of Leon Boeck (they were tied even down to tie breakers).

 

ComStar: Maybe someone (involved) should post at FFG before the Americans talk themselves into a rage again.

 

DasMaddin: too late, ComStar.

It sounds, from that translation, like he realized he got caught on camera and dropped out to avoid further punishment down the line.

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I found this one at Reddit.

https://www.twitch.tv/jkcoverage/v/55345104

Try looking at 2 Hours 34 minutes.

One of the players leave the table, the other one then picks up his Darth Vader Dial and appears to change it.

 

 

No, that was VERY blatent. What's up with all of these German videos lately?

 

 

"No one who speaks German could be an evil man."

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Is it healthy or helpful to post these kind of one-off instances of cheating on public boards? They are rare. They are dealt with locally. All posting them here does is prime a bunch of players to actively look for instances of cheating. Then they post what they think was cheating(it wasn't, in a couple of recent cases) and the feedback reinforces itself. It makes the game worse for all of us.

Just report it to your TO's and keep it off the net.

No, people need to realize that there are some legitimate cheaters that play this game and to be on guard.

Accusations of cheating are only poison for fun if you're one of those militant casuals that isn't actually cheating, but gets salty even though he has nothing to hide.

I've been playing this game for over a year, most games in tournaments. I've been damage deck checked exactly zero times. If I was a cheater, I could take out a handful of cards and I would never get caught. Can't accuse anyone of cheating, that's poisonous to fun, right?

Accusations about loaded dice are ridiculous, however all the accused player has to do is swap dice.

Also, even if he never changed his dial, he still cheated. You have to ask/notify your opponent that you're doing that beforehand.

This is how much of a stupid hugbox this place is, we can't even discuss real instances of cheating.

As usual, you miss the point being made and add assumptions about the poster that are not justified by the post. This has nothing to do with it being a "hugbox". It has to do with how often people are publicly and falsely accused of cheating.

 

 

 

There is nothing false about this. Your whole don't say anything you are just making things worse attitude isn't gonna help things. If people cheat it needs to be discussed to put an end to it. Sticking your fingers in your ears and covering your eyes never solved a problem, ever.

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I'm not sure what pisses me off more, the dial switch or the streaming site labeling their faction as "Imperium."

Well that is what they are playing, what's your problem with the caption?

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Sticking your fingers in your ears and covering your eyes never solved a problem, ever.

Torches and Pitchforks aren't known for productive solutions either.

 

 

They are if you need to burn some hay.  Or are attacked by scarecrows....

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I'm not sure what pisses me off more, the dial switch or the streaming site labeling their faction as "Imperium."

Well that is what they are playing, what's your problem with the caption?

 

 

They are playing Imperial not Imperium. Imperium is Warhammer 40K human empire.

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