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Pimpbacca

The Costed Scout

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My impression with the Scouts is more to do with the Argomech and Deadeye, and less to do with the actual ship. 

According to the playtesters I've talked to, they didn't even think about this.

 

 

They really need some new playtesters :P.  No deadeye/r4.  No quad TLT.  What else do they miss?

 

I would like to support this post. This combo was 'discovered' just a few days after the cards were spoiled, if the playtesting process indeed didnt catch something this obvious there seems to be something wrong.

For now i'm certainly willing to give them the benefit of doubt, but i think the scout would have still been a powerful ship @25 without the EPT.

Edited by Celes

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How is SLAM debateable? Thats a clear advantage, especially when you consider the K-Wing can use Bombs well and with that not lose much damage by SLAMing.

 

I wrote "Dials/SLAM". The K-Wing's dial is the most limited in the game, with no koiograns (and certainly no segnors), and only 2 turns. However, as you say, SLAM really opens up that dial with another move, making the K-Wing quite umpredictable unless the situation on the table clearly limits its possible paths.

The Jumpmaster has clearly a much richer dial, with green turns, white segnor, koiograns, speed 4 straight, speed 1 turn... The dial itself is much better than the K-Wing's. However, its base size reduces its mobility.

 

That is why I said that Dials/SLAM and Base size are debatable subjects when comparing both ships. There is no clear 100% winner in that matter.

Edited by Azrapse

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TLTs, Fel and Dameron have chased most generics off the tables. If triple Scouts do a number on aces and turret spam, then we might see generic jousters making a comeback. Is BBBBZ worried about Scouts?

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TLTs, Fel and Dameron have chased most generics off the tables. If triple Scouts do a number on aces and turret spam, then we might see generic jousters making a comeback. Is BBBBZ worried about Scouts?

Absolutely, yes.  Scouts should be able to kill one of the b-wings and possibly the Z before they can fire, and easily weather the rest of the fire between them long enough to shoot again. 

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TLTs, Fel and Dameron have chased most generics off the tables. If triple Scouts do a number on aces and turret spam, then we might see generic jousters making a comeback. Is BBBBZ worried about Scouts?

Phantom ate them all, EVERYTHING below PS9 long before Pony Damerony was even announced to be an X-wing pilot

 

BBBBZ is worried about getting DERPed one ina  turn before firing.

But with decent planning big JM5ks base lets you block them, and without that focus it's nigh useless.

Edited by Warpman

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TLTs, Fel and Dameron have chased most generics off the tables. If triple Scouts do a number on aces and turret spam, then we might see generic jousters making a comeback. Is BBBBZ worried about Scouts?

I don't think BBBBZ has much chance vs scouts. You're losing first B before it shoots and likely getting another Torp on a 2nd B wing. The remaining ships likely can't one shot a scout. Next round you're losing another B at least. By the time Torps are spent is 1-2 Bs and a Z vs. 2 Scouts. Given higher BS and barrel roll, my money's on the scouts.

Only generics triple Scouts might bring to front are generics with PS4 or more.

Edited by LordBlades

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TLTs, Fel and Dameron have chased most generics off the tables. If triple Scouts do a number on aces and turret spam, then we might see generic jousters making a comeback. Is BBBBZ worried about Scouts?

 

Given they'd be flying BBZ by the second round of shooting, I suspect that yes, they would be worried about Scouts.

Edited by DR4CO

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TLTs, Fel and Dameron have chased most generics off the tables. If triple Scouts do a number on aces and turret spam, then we might see generic jousters making a comeback. Is BBBBZ worried about Scouts?

I don't think BBBBZ has much chance vs scouts. You're losing first B before it shoots and likely getting another Torp on a 2nd B wing. The remaining ships likely can't one shot a scout. Next round you're losing another B at least. By the time Torps are spent is 1-2 Bs and a Z vs. 2 Scouts. Given higher BS and barrel roll, my money's on the scouts.

Only generics triple Scouts might bring to front are generics with PS4 or more.

 

And then, only if they can arcdodge the scouts and/or alpha one of them down before it can fire, or have some way to stop it using Focus.

 

There are a lot of options, but Scouts are REALLY going to shake up the meta.

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thing is, its not just aces that are worried about scouts. Theyre so **** efficient ordinary generics cant keep up.

Even swarms?

I may be wrong but i notice noones even contempated what a tracer blount + z95 wing with chimps and missiles would do to them yet.

Either way, it's an awfully expensive percieved meta to keep up with this wave

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I'm mildly bothered by the EPT, I admit.

Mostly because the 'perfect combo' on a spammable generic feels a little cheap given, Y'know, Y-wings & TIE Bombers are still well behind.

Guess we'll see.

4 Gammas each with EM and Homing Missiles feels about as cheap. Not exactly sure on the Mathwing but it seems to roll the same amount of hits as a U-Boat. And you don't have to spend the TL to fire them, so for the second volley there is a potential for some action independence.

This is with Chips btw. Once LRS comes out it only gets worse. Once triple U-Boat starts to dominate, you'll see a bunch of counter lists using stuff not normally seen, like Black Eight Squadron and Guardian Squadron. It's just that your normal copy and paste poe Miranda ~~20 point ship list won't have answers.

Quad Red Squadron, quad R7, quad Integrated Astromech? PS 4 and some fancy tricks to shut down the Agromech TL rerolls.

Edited by ParaGoomba Slayer

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thing is, its not just aces that are worried about scouts. Theyre so **** efficient ordinary generics cant keep up.

Even swarms?

I may be wrong but i notice noones even contempated what a tracer blount + z95 wing with chimps and missiles would do to them yet.

Either way, it's an awfully expensive percieved meta to keep up with this wave

 

It would lose two or three zs before shooting, and probably not do enough to kill even one scout in the alpha (even assuming 4 hits per z, you're looking at losing a damage per shot, and the scouts have shields to suck down crits), then it would be a swarm of z95s.

 

LRS Bomber swarm seems to have more legs, to me.

 

The line of questioning for me with scouts is:

 

1: Can you get out of arc/into range 1, or block them?  If so you're probably OK.

 

2: If not, can you stop them firing (e.g. Carnor, Palob, Wes, tearing off Deadeye by forcing a crit through with Boba crew, or just shooting them hard enough to force spending that focus token, or just alpha-ing them to death yourself)

 

3: If not, can you weather the bombardment?  Not many can; TIE swarms may have the best answer, simply by having a bunch of green dice and likely causing wasted shots, then getting in and getting blocks.  On average it should take two torps to kill one TIE, and that's not a good rate of return on investment.

 

4: If not, you probably die.

 

It will be interesting to see how this wave shakes out in List Juggler.  I suspect that they've somewhat underestimated the demand for Punishing Ones, and we'll see a lot of lists with two or three Scouts.

Edited by thespaceinvader

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The price was correct for the time, it might be expensive now, too much so, but it was not a mistake in costing at that time.

 

 

I have to disagree with this one.  I started playing before Wave 2 came out, and I remember everyone saying that the ORS must exist for scenario play, because it was obviously badly overcosted.

 

I don't know if it was a mistake in costing, but it certainly wasn't in line with everything else.

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My impression with the Scouts is more to do with the Argomech and Deadeye, and less to do with the actual ship. 

According to the playtesters I've talked to, they didn't even think about this.

 

 

They really need some new playtesters :P.  No deadeye/r4.  No quad TLT.  What else do they miss?

 

I would like to support this post. This combo was 'discovered' just a few days after the cards were spoiled, if the playtesting process indeed didnt catch something this obvious there seems to be something wrong.

For now i'm certainly willing to give them the benefit of doubt, but i think the scout would have still been a powerful ship @25 without the EPT.

 

 

 

:blink:

 

Yes, well. Admittedly the amount of card combinations are insane, but that one does stand out. Insofar as there are not many salvaged astromech cards and not that many swap this for that cards.

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The scout probably didn't need the ept because it's yes it is under costed. ORS is over costed and could have he regular yt stats and still be overcosted however just because one is over costed didn't mean the scout is not undercosted (good thing the title is overpriced). However it's to late to cry about it now we will just have to deal with many lists that spam this ship.

Edited by Gungo

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My impression with the Scouts is more to do with the Argomech and Deadeye, and less to do with the actual ship. 

According to the playtesters I've talked to, they didn't even think about this.

 

 

I hadn't heard that, but I did hear its last iteration was a couple points more expensive.  If that's true, it certainly would have lessened the strength of 3 overall (really not even allowing playtesters to consider the current list build we're seeing) while maybe making one or two good enough in a list for competitive play but not dominant like we're seeing.

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My impression with the Scouts is more to do with the Argomech and Deadeye, and less to do with the actual ship. 

According to the playtesters I've talked to, they didn't even think about this.

 

 

They really need some new playtesters :P.  No deadeye/r4.  No quad TLT.  What else do they miss?

 

I would like to support this post. This combo was 'discovered' just a few days after the cards were spoiled, if the playtesting process indeed didnt catch something this obvious there seems to be something wrong.

For now i'm certainly willing to give them the benefit of doubt, but i think the scout would have still been a powerful ship @25 without the EPT.

 

 

If you read the playtest credits, you will see a good number of top players in the list who have come up with creative builds and had success at World's Nationals.  

 

A couple of points:  One,  if no one thought of it, it could easily be because there are only so many playtesters compared to the thousands of players that see it when a preview is released and probably not all playtesters worked on the Jumpaster, so the number is even smaller.   Two, even if they did see it, if it wasn't the same iteration when they played it, it could lead to very different results and analysis.  Finally, keep in mind that even now that it's been released, there's still differing of opinions on how strong, ranging from "worse than the phantom" to "perfectly costed."

Edited by AlexW

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If the playtesters didn't figure this one out, count me as absolutely baffled.

 

I kind of wonder if playtesters aren't directed on how to attack new ships/upgrades, or, aren't held accountable. I think they might do more of "Ohh new ships! Lets play!" and not as much of "Ok, lets figure out how this thing can break the game".

 

 

But I'd have to agree with randomscrub overall though. They probably knew about it, and perhaps they found answers to it that we have yet to find.

Edited by Kdubb

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