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Moribund

Item Qualities and Multiple Activations

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Can Active Item Qualities be activated multiple times on a single combat check?  From the descriptions it's clear that Auto-fire, Sunder, and Linked can be; but the wording on Sunder is implicit and the wording for Auto-fire is explicit.  Linked is limited in number of activations.  Since I haven't been able to find any other wording that clarifies the topic and I don't know how to extrapolate from Sunder or Auto-fire, I'm at a loss.

 

What about other qualities?  For some multiple activations would be redundant (like Knockdown), but it would make sense to activate qualities such as Stun multiple times.

 

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I'd say that unless the quality explicitly says otherwise, then you only get a single activation per hit.  Otherwise, some of them (like Disorient, Ensnared, Staggered, and Stun) could be very readily abused to trigger those qualities multiple times.

 

That there are talents that flat-out say "you can activate this more than once" leads me to think that those are meant as exceptions and called out as such for that specific reason.

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I'd say that unless the quality explicitly says otherwise, then you only get a single activation per hit.  Otherwise, some of them (like Disorient, Ensnared, Staggered, and Stun) could be very readily abused to trigger those qualities multiple times.

 

That there are talents that flat-out say "you can activate this more than once" leads me to think that those are meant as exceptions and called out as such for that specific reason.

Apparently, I have run out of positive votes for the day, so I literally cannot “like” this post enough.

But I do like it. ;)

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I've sent the dev question in, and hopefully we'll get a response.  I'm dubious of an implied limitation because I don't think that matches up with how advantages are spent elsewhere in the system.  Do you allow multiple activations of the other options on the Spending [Advantages] and [Triumphs] in Combat table?  For instance, can you spend advantages and triumphs to add multiple Boost dice to an ally's check?

 

Do note that there is an inconsistency between the aforementioned table in EotE and FaD.  EotE specifically states that you can use the recover strain option multiple times, but there is no such clarification in FaD for any entries.

Edited by Moribund

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I suspect the answer will be that they can be activated once per hit, where Linked and Auto-fire can grant multiple hits on a single attack. As an example the Temple Guard Double Bladed Saber from KtP has Stun 4 and Linked 1, if you activate Linked for a second hit then i would think that Stun could be activated twice... need a fist full of advantage and triumph though!

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Do note that there is an inconsistency between the aforementioned table in EotE and FaD.  EotE specifically states that you can use the recover strain option multiple times, but there is no such clarification in FaD for any entries.

 

This is likely more of an oversight than anything for FaD's core, since the "multiple times" call-out for strain has been present in pretty much everything else, including the FaD GM Screen and Beginner Game.

 

 

 

Do you allow multiple activations of the other options on the Spending [Advantages] and [Triumphs] in Combat table?  For instance, can you spend advantages and triumphs to add multiple Boost dice to an ally's check?

 

For the Boost Dice/Setbacks in particular, no. This is for a handful of reasons: dice bloat (imagine constantly adding ~4 Boost Dice on top of whatever you'd typically roll), it promotes being uncreative ("I miss huh? I'll just pass everything into Boost Dice to the next player"), and it could become an unusually large boon (as taking the default table listings once puts a cap on the number of Boost Dice you can pass, which is up to 2, and one of the die has to be used specifically by the next character).

 

But as Richardbuxton mentions, if you're hitting multiple times and choose to spend the Advantages/Triumphs towards something that could make sense to be activated multiple times, I could see allowing it. Like if two dual-wielding gunslingers are in a duel and the player wants to spend his advantage/Triumph to trigger his second shot, and then proceed to have both shots force the opponent drop his guns, I'd say sure, if that's how he wants to spend his ~8 Advantage (give or take with Triumphs, talents, and attachments).

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I suspect the answer will be that they can be activated once per hit, where Linked and Auto-fire can grant multiple hits on a single attack. As an example the Temple Guard Double Bladed Saber from KtP has Stun 4 and Linked 1, if you activate Linked for a second hit then i would think that Stun could be activated twice... need a fist full of advantage and triumph though!

 

That's an interesting take on it.  It would change the interpretation of Sunder for me, since Sunder doesn't say it can be activated multiple times on a single "hit" just on a single "attack".

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I suspect the answer will be that they can be activated once per hit, where Linked and Auto-fire can grant multiple hits on a single attack. As an example the Temple Guard Double Bladed Saber from KtP has Stun 4 and Linked 1, if you activate Linked for a second hit then i would think that Stun could be activated twice... need a fist full of advantage and triumph though!

 

That's an interesting take on it.  It would change the interpretation of Sunder for me, since Sunder doesn't say it can be activated multiple times on a single "hit" just on a single "attack".

 

 

Yeah I think Sunder may be written that way to prevent multiple activations on a Linked Lightsaber specifically. Thats where an "Attack" is a single dice roll, where multiple "Hits" are available from a single attack.

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For the Boost Dice/Setbacks in particular, no. This is for a handful of reasons: dice bloat (imagine constantly adding ~4 Boost Dice on top of whatever you'd typically roll), it promotes being uncreative ("I miss huh? I'll just pass everything into Boost Dice to the next player"), and it could become an unusually large boon (as taking the default table listings once puts a cap on the number of Boost Dice you can pass, which is up to 2, and one of the die has to be used specifically by the next character).

I have run out of positive votes for the day, and then along comes this post which I would “like” multiple times if the system would allow me to do so, and I can’t even “like” it just once.

Sigh….

So, to be clear, I really, really like the above quoted section. And it reminds me of some things I should be doing better in my own games.

Thanks!

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From the EotE CRB, Table 6-2 on page 206, "Recover 1 strain (this option may be selected more than once)" makes it pretty clear that unless stated otherwise, you can't spend advantages to trigger the same effect multiple times on the same hit/attack. Same goes for Weapon qualities that clearly says you can trigger it multiple times (linked 2+, autofire, crit, etc.).

 

I guess the only Quality that could be really bothersome is Disorient, but I think I remember a Dev saying that debuffs work the same way as buffs, that the same source do not stack (if someone had the link it would be cool).... so triggering disorient twice wouldn't stack.

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Triggering Disorient multiple times doesn't stack, but on subsequent rounds it will reset the count on rounds affected.

Huh? EotE p. 218 Disoriented "Each instance increases the duration of the effect by the instance's stated duration"

With regard to multiple activations, I suspect that the consensus is correct. I'm bothered by needing to assume a default based on supposed exceptions. This is especially true since elsewhere in the system, the default is that effects from die results can be purchased multiple times (I'm looking at you skills, talents, Force Powers, and KtP armor crafting rules).

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Do note that there is an inconsistency between the aforementioned table in EotE and FaD.  EotE specifically states that you can use the recover strain option multiple times, but there is no such clarification in FaD for any entries.

 

This is likely more of an oversight than anything for FaD's core, since the "multiple times" call-out for strain has been present in pretty much everything else, including the FaD GM Screen and Beginner Game.

 

I noticed this as well, and submitted a rules question to Sam last summer. His reply was that they removed the "This can be activated multiple times"-clause because it implied that this was the ONLY thing that could be activated multiple times.

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I just got my response back.  Maybe not what I was hoping for, but probably for the best with Jury-Rig out there.

 

 

Item qualities can only be triggered once per target, generally.

 
Hope this helps!
 
Sam Stewart

 

The undeclared inconsistency between what you can purchase multiple times continues to disturb me.

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I suspect the answer will be that they can be activated once per hit, where Linked and Auto-fire can grant multiple hits on a single attack. As an example the Temple Guard Double Bladed Saber from KtP has Stun 4 and Linked 1, if you activate Linked for a second hit then i would think that Stun could be activated twice... need a fist full of advantage and triumph though!

 

That's an interesting take on it.  It would change the interpretation of Sunder for me, since Sunder doesn't say it can be activated multiple times on a single "hit" just on a single "attack".

 

 

Yeah I think Sunder may be written that way to prevent multiple activations on a Linked Lightsaber specifically. Thats where an "Attack" is a single dice roll, where multiple "Hits" are available from a single attack.

 

 

Grabbing this out of its sleep. Do the example for sunder use not explicitly activate it multiple times on a single attack?

 

And btw, what are the costs for a stun activation?

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Yes, if you mean can you take an item from fully functional to destroyed.

 

2.  Different costs for activations are specified in the Effect write up.

Edited by 2P51

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Yeah, from fully functional to destroyed was what I meant. 

 

 

 
2.  Different costs for activations are specified in the Effect write up.


And if it's not given it is 2 Advantage.

 

 

That was the one I was looking for. Thank you. Was wondering about it for handcrafted stun grenades.

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Stun Grenades don't have the Stun Quality, they do Stun Damage which is passive(ie automatic). It's their Blast and Disorient that need activation, both of which require 2 Advantage each on a successful attack to activate, (Blast can be activated on a missed attack with 3 advantage as well)

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Stun Grenades don't have the Stun Quality, they do Stun Damage which is passive(ie automatic). It's their Blast and Disorient that need activation, both of which require 2 Advantage each on a successful attack to activate, (Blast can be activated on a missed attack with 3 advantage as well)

 

 

The grenade template from SM comes with blast, you can add stun or stun setting or both.  And I think taking both is actually a good choice. 

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