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thalim

Overlord strategy // General Tips, Plot deck, Class Cards and Monster Selection

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Hello everyone,
I've read a lot of Descent posts here at FFG Forum  and also another forum so I decided to give something back and post something here and there.
There are often questions about Overlord strategies so I came up to write my experience as an Overlord player.
Some things are common sense and well-known. Other stuff I haven't read so far.

1. Mindset
Descent is a resource-game. The two resources are actions and fatigue.
In order to win you have to maximize your actions and minimize the actions and fatigue of the heroes
(the heroes vice versa).

2. General

  • read through the description of each setup/stage and understand the winning conditions (discuss with heroes so everything is clear)

  • first and only goal: fulfill winning conditions!

  • write down the stats of the heroes to have a little reminder handy for your attribute testing cards/conditions

  • when playing a attribute testing card/ or giving someone a condition the test-value should be 2 or less

  • always try to reduce your deck to 15 cards which highly support the winning condition

  • if there is nothing better to do (like closing doors, get into a good blocking position,sit on search tokens (large monsters) attack the heroes

  • if the end of stage 1 is near: beat the **** out of the heroes, don't kill one – just weaken them as much as possible (hearts, conditions)

  • never finish your monster activation next to a melee character so you force the hero to spend fatigue or loose an attack action

  • if possible/appropriate spread monsters (additional movement points/range to consider for heroes willing to kill them)

  • if heroes have blast, whirlwind etc try to spread monsters OR chose smaller monster groups

  • save your cards for the second stage and use them when they have an impact on the game (this comes with experience)

3. Plot Decks

  • Seeds of Betrayal, Sole Purpose! Don't spent anything – 13 Cards Deck is enough :D

  • (there is a really good plot deck guide on the other well known forum, highly recommended)

4. Card selection
There are always questions how to combine cards, best overlords classes etc.
Remember the mindset: Minimize actions and fatigue of the heroes and maximize your actions.
The following cards support that strategy.

Basic I

  • Dark Charm: running in the opposite direction is often much better than attacking,because the hero looses one action to reposition (unless you can kill someone – then go for the kill.)

  • Dash/Frenzy (2x): you get one extra move/attack. Yay! Dash is always advantageous. Frenzy depends on the scenario/winning conditions

  • Pit trap: use when fatigue is used for movement

  • Trip wire (2x): use in an movement action

Basic II

  • Blinding Speed (2x): +2 Movement Points // if you have a low knowledge & awareness warrior a total of 6 movement points. Let the shadow dragon walk all over the map  :D  (superior to dash IF there is such a low knowledge/awareness hero)

  • Flurry: get another attack plus green dice with a surge (inferior to frenzy because you need to roll a surge and the added green dice in the next attack doesn't equal this)

  • Grease Trap: Banana peel anyone? Hero moves in opposite direction and gets some damage or suffers fatigue (stop this Wildlander a bit)? The mage gets stunned? This sounds like a swiss army knife. In the right circumstance you can let the hero slide into the arms of an ravage monster - lets cuddle a bit. (overall a nice trap)

  • Mimic: kill this reaver if you want to get some gold/items.. Very nice card! This minion also gives you some actions. It's a no brainer. Use it as often as you can. (nice card! I want that in Basic I, maybe two times?  :ph34r:  )

  • Overwhelm: get an extra attack (test willpower) on surrounded heroes or the hero gets stunned and immobilized. Sound great at first glance but its situational. I use it on heroes wandering alone in the dark to knock them out or fix them in their position.

  • Sign of weakness: Get a movement point for every monster in line of sight of a resting hero. situational but nice to reposition.

It is fun to play - Mimic, Mimic, Mimic :P  but for getting extra action/movement points or restrict them

for the heroes I think it's inferior to Basic I

 

Warlord

  • Blood rage (2x 1 XP): two extra attack actions is huge – but your monster is defeated afterwards. In my opinion most beneficial at the end of stage 1 to weaken heroes, if you have to kill someone and it's getting tight with the heroes winning condition or if a monster is on low health and will not survive the next attack. It's also fun to build up a one-trick-pony Act II Master Shadow Dragon with frenzy also add 'Dark Charm' and 'Crushing Blow' to trigger an explosive attack (and 3 'normal' ones). With a bit of luck and bad positioning of the heroes this is devastating.

Saboteur

  • Web trap (2x 1 XP): Immobilize – one of my favorite conditions. Use when at least two low might heroes are adjacent to each other

Punisher

  • No Rest for the Wicked (2x 1 XP): forces the heroes to think twice about fatigue move. If they move, you can move – great. If they decide not to move with fatigue this round – great. You prevented the conversion to movement points. They use an action instead.

  • Exploit Weakness (2 XP): you can get a whole activation for a monster or at least one movement action. Situational but good Synergies with 'Imploding Rift' and 'Mistrust'. Unfortunately expensive with 2 XP

Shadowmancer

  • Imploding Rift (1 XP): a hero looses all of his stamina? Great deal. Play on high stamina, low Willpower heroes

  • Mistrust (1 XP): loosing fatigue when when the heroes getting cosy with their buddys. Great thing. Use in narrow maps. Overall to situational

  • Out of Darkness (1 XP): get an attack action when hero is revived. Sounds great but highly situational use 'Exploit Weakness' instead

  • Treacherous Shadows (3 XP): can be nice if there are at least two low Willpower heroes. But way too expensive.

Unkindness

  • Call of the Ravens (1 XP): get an extra monster on the map – nice. Two actions each round and one more monster to kill/disturb the plans of the heroes can add up a lot over the course of a campaign. Also good synergies with Bloodlust (call raven on at least 5HP monster, let the monster die with Bloodlust) and reinforcements at start of OL turn

Enchanter

  • Wristlet Of Wind (1 XP): underestimated this card for a long time. It's huge on a group of 4 or 5 monsters. Even better if they are ranged. It's just one additional movement point - but that's the one which leads to extra fatigue movement, splitting groups up, lay distractions, etc. and on top of all the heroes can't discard it like Elixir of Stone (except they can dish out immobilize...). Like nearly all Enchanter Cards it's best played on groups which are reinforced every round. On top of that, once played it thins out the OL deck for the scene.

  • Elixir of Stone (1 XP): +1 shield for every monster in group. Can lead to more actions to kill one. I want that. Kobolds, Reanimates, Archers and such really benefit from it and become even nastier. Unfortunately the heroes can discard it. ALso thins out the OL deck for the played scene

Infector

  • Airborne (1 XP): Well this is a nice card. Comes silently "I play airborne", heroes exhale in relief - nothing happens. But on the long run it can be an Elixir of Stone for every monster on the table. Well - a bit exaggerated. But it's powerful: The blue X or out of range? - ok, you get an infection token. A little bit less to be annoyed :rolleyes:   Can make the difference between a dead monster or a monster with 1 HP. That's annoying and another action for the heroes. On top of that it thins out your deck for the whole quest! I like!

Universal

  • Plan Ahead (1 XP): Look up the next five OL cards and put them back in your desired order? Yes please! Very important to get critical cards like Dash or get this Enchanter Card to play.

  • Dark Resilience (1 XP): First aid for your lieutenant, boss or whatever you like. Very good in quest with "kill xy" as an hero winning condition. Diverse Means is another option but it costs 2XP... I prefer Dark Resilience.

  • Dark Remedy (2 x 1XP): discard one chosen condition from a monster group. It's a very defensive card - but can help to keep Wristlet of Wind. Would Consider it if heroes are quite condition happy

So if I want an hardcore campaign for the heroes I always pick a set out of these cards.
They are cheap and highly effective. If there are two low might heroes I get Web Trap first.
Afterwards I adjust to the heroes and course of the campaign.

5. Monster Selection
I distinguish my monsters in different types

  • “Kill me if you want to pass”

  • good conditions for bad heroes

  • move that **** hero

  • Blow things up: AoE

  • DIE, DIE, DIE! (...my darling)

Remember the resources: actions, fatigue
Remember the winning conditions.
If your heroes have high single target damage try to avoid small monster groups and vice versa (blast, etc - small monster groups)

So first of all I ask myself: is blocking a good Idea? Will the heroes loose a good amount of actions?
If yes – let's find a monster with two defense dices (grey-brown, grey-grey, …) and a good amount of life.
That's a simple one. Nothing more to say here.

Next question: Conditions

I distinguish between the good ones (listed here) and 'bad' ones (left out).
The good ones are those which need an action to remove or Immobilize ;-) Diseased is an exception because it directly attacks the fatigue resource.

If possible always try to get immobilize and/or stun (Medusa anyone?) because they restrict movement (immobilize) or directly take away an action without a choice (stun).

My personal top 5 are:

  1. Immobilize: restricts tactical movement/ repositioning

  2. Stunned: “Have fun with your 1 action next round” :-p

  3. Terrified: Force the heroes to do crazy movements just to lose this card at the end of their round. On top of that – no surges which nicely transfers in less damage/ no fatigue gain

  4. Bleeding: action loss for discarding this card – otherwise fatigue loss/action. Really nice.

  5. Weakened: one rest action to lose this card? Yes please. On top of that this hero is easier to knock out and is fighting with cotton balls.

The other conditions are also good and can transition into the longer life of monsters or less fatigue/recovery of fatigue. But those just mentioned are universal for every hero (no attributes test) and have IMO the strongest effects.

 

Immobilized [discard end of turn, cannot move]

  • Merriods (surge)

  • Medusa (surge)

  • Arachyura (surge)

  • Elementals (action, test awareness)

  • [C] Zombies (action, test strength)

  • [C] Bane Spider (action, adjacent test awareness)

  • [C] Broodwalker (surge)

Stunned [1 action]

  • Giant (surge)

  • Troll (test awareness after attack)

  • [C] Medusa (surge)

  • [C] Razorwing (surge)

Terrified [no LOS enemy figures at end of hero turn, cannot spend surges]

  • Broodwalker (surge)

Bleeding [1 action, each action 1 fatigue]

  • Changelings (surge)

  • Rat Swarm (action, test strength)

Weakened [rest action, -1 shield & heart p. attack]

  • Plague Worms (surge)

Next question: Move
Is it beneficial to move heroes because they block the exit? They protect your target? There are hazard fields like pits?
So here we have some bad guys who can do it:

  • Ynfernal Hulk (surge, 3 fields)

  • Hellhound (surge, place on field adjacent to monster)

  • Plague Worm (action, 1 field + suffer 1 fatigue)

  • Changeling (action, test willpower, 1 field)

  • Ogre (surge, 3 fields)

  • [C] Bone Horror (surge)

  • [C] Ettin (action, test strength, 3 fields + suffer 1 heart)

  • [C] Goblin witcher (when cursed, 2 fields)

  • [C] Crypt Dragon (action, test willpower, 2 fields straight away)

  • [C] Hell Hound (surge, field adjacent to monster)

Next question: AoE
Heroes often stay near each other? Narrow map? Get some AoE which is like (an) extra action(s)

  • Lava Beetle (surge, [C] always, blast)

  • Arachyura (attack adjacent max 2 fields)

  • Elemental (attack adjacent / test willpower, 2 fatigue / test awareness, immobilize adjacent)

  • Plague Worm (action, 2 fields fatigue AoE, 1 fatigue)

  • Barghest (action, 3 fields radius fatigue AoE, test willpower, 1 fatigue)

  • Crypt Dragon (surge, blast)

  • Dark Priest (action, 5 field radius, test willpower, 1 fatigue)

  • [C] Fire Imp (when defeated, adjacent, 1 heart)

  • [C] Merriod (attack, 2 fields)

  • [C] Shadow Dragon (surge, 4 fields)

  • [C] Hybrid Sentinel (surge, 4 fields)

  • [C] Hellhound (surge, 4 fields)

  • [C] Giant (action, every figure in 2 spaces and LoS)

  • [C] Ogre (action, each figure 2 fields)

  • [C] Hell Hound (surge, 4 fields)

Last Question: Kill what is in your way.

So the task is to kill an objective? Knock out that heroes? Do damage?

Well the blue-red die is your friend (act II: blue-red-red). Also numbers are beneficial (more monsters - more actions for you) so it can be better to choose larger monster groups (4 or even 5 monsters) Here are (sometimes underestimated) little fuckers I really like and just want to mention:

  • Goblin Archer: annoying little fuckers and numerous. With Wristlet of Wind a nightmare with hit and run tactic. Also good surges with damage and range. Downside: Cowardly and very fragile but would be OP otherwise.

  • Sorcerer: numerous and sorcery give them just what they need (range or damage). I use them in close combat and with hit and run tactics. Good Damage.

  • Bandits. Blue-Red dice and ranged. Nice! Often classified as OP.

  • Rat Swarm: Glass cannons. Fragile but can do good damage.

  • Hell Hound: numerous, high pierce, BR dice, move hero, maybe a firebreath…

  • Changeling: I love these buddies – staying power, numerous, fast, some nice surges. Not the highest damage though.

  • Cave Spider: don't like them in Act I – but ACT 2 is awesome with BYY and good damage surges.

  • Lava Beetle: Boom and good dice

There are many different types of monster which can fulfil more than one task:

  • Elementals (Condition, AoE, fatigue-AoE, with Air nice blocking)

  • Plague Worm (Condition, fatigue AoE, Move)

  • Arachyura (Condition, AoE, blocking to an lesser extent)

  • Giant (Condition, massive AoE if positioned correctly)

  • Merriod (Condition, AoE)

  • Changeling (Condition, Move, fatigue)

  • Medusa (Yo Dawg. I heard you like conditions? So I put a condition into a condition so you give conditions while giving a condition)

  • Hell Hound (AoE, Move)

  • Shadow Dragon (AoE, Blocking, good looking :wub:  )

  • Ettin (Blocking, Move)

  • ...

Whenever possible I'll choose such 'multi-purpose' monsters.

With all this in mind I'm quite successful as the Overlord and the heroes have a really hard time.

7. Hints for the heroes
So what can heroes do to make me feel at least a bit uncomfortable?

  • The group hast to be balanced in their attributes (a whole low willpower group? Wet dream of mine)

  • FOCUS. ON. THE. WINNING. CONDITION(s). Oh cool you killed this Sentinel behind your Team? Nice. You just lost one round of coming closer to the winning condition.

  • every character has at least 4 movement points

  • get a condition remover & healer

  • get skills that give you extra actions (Advance, Whirlwind, Fleet of Foot, Blast, familiar, ...you get the point ;-)

  • get items which boost movement, stamina, fatigue, surges

  • Lindel (really - that's a ******. Even without a class he's nearly unstoppable movement wise. He is also nice to have for attribute tests in quests)

  • Mess with my cards (Marshal, Wildlander)

  • Search as much as possible

So that was a long one. Hope you enjoyed and got something out of it.
If this post starts a discussion or something comes to my mind to add I'll edit it in this post.

Cheers
Thalim

 

€1 spelling // added another hero hint

€2 General: blast/whirlwind

€3 added basic II cards

€4 reworked OL classes, reworked conditions, added monsters and another monster selection paragraph

€5 a bit polishing here and there

Edited by thalim

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2. General

  • first and only goal: fulfill winning conditions!

 

 

While I like much of what you have to say, I disagree with the above statement.

 

There are many, many encounters (either part 1 or part 2 where you actually get quest rewards) where your first and only goal is to search and maximize your gold.  In fact, there are a fair number of quests where the rewards offered do not out weigh the value of maximizing the gold for the heroes, and its not even close.

 

This is especially true in those quests where either the entire quest is slanted against the heroes, or if by losing the first encounter, the 2nd one is now slanted against the heroes.

 

It is at this point that you need to make intelligent decisions as to what is truly possible, and what in the long term will maximize your chances for winning the finale.

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There are many, many encounters (either part 1 or part 2 where you actually get quest rewards) where your first and only goal is to search and maximize your gold.  In fact, there are a fair number of quests where the rewards offered do not out weigh the value of maximizing the gold for the heroes, and its not even close.

A good example for me is Acolyte of Saradyn, the HoB intro. Perhaps, the most annoying thing in OL victory would be an extra XP, but I can live with that.

Edited by SpawnGarret

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2. General

  • first and only goal: fulfill winning conditions!

 

 

While I like much of what you have to say, I disagree with the above statement.

 

There are many, many encounters (either part 1 or part 2 where you actually get quest rewards) where your first and only goal is to search and maximize your gold.  In fact, there are a fair number of quests where the rewards offered do not out weigh the value of maximizing the gold for the heroes, and its not even close.

 

This is especially true in those quests where either the entire quest is slanted against the heroes, or if by losing the first encounter, the 2nd one is now slanted against the heroes.

 

It is at this point that you need to make intelligent decisions as to what is truly possible, and what in the long term will maximize your chances for winning the finale.

 

 

Since he's speaking from the OL perspective, for myself, I pretty much agree with his statement. Now from the heroes side of thing, I'm on your side.

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From what I'm told, my goal isn't to win as the Overlord, but to allow everyone to have a good time beating me. 

The hardest part of being the OL. Your are strictly an opponent, but without being a bit of a DM, things might not become enjoyable. Most common example is the 'beating the living s*** out of the weakest hero' strategy.

When playing Descent, you don't have to mind losing:p Ideally, both parties win 50/50 of the quests. So I try to pick my battles, going all in for certain quest rewards, but trying out different, more fun to play combinations in quests where I don't really need/ want the reward. 

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Nice thread. One thing though is that you left out plot decks and also didn't mention the new monsters like brood walkers in your discussion of conditions.

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Hello everyone,

I've read a lot of Descent posts here at FFG Forum  and also another forum so I decided to give something back and post something here and there.

There are often questions about Overlord strategies so I came up to write my experience as an Overlord player.

Some things are common sense and well-known. Other stuff I haven't read so far.

As you read through the text, you will see that of the both existing opinions about the balance in Decent I belong

to the “as a hero player Descent is hard as ****”-side.

1. Mindset

Descent is a resource-game. The two resources are actions and fatigue.

In order two win you have to maximize your actions and minimize the actions and fatigue of the heroes

(the heroes vice versa).

Indeed but we need to stress a third ressource : GOLD. It is that ressource that makes heroes win. It is the fuel for heroes besides the "action" ressource (fatigue enters in that 2nd category as i see it)

As Heroes, In ACT I and rumors you definitively have to  ask yourself if you will burn some of your actions to optimize the search.

It may make you lose an encounter but sometimes 4 search is far better than wining encounter I or even the quest.

So the Overlod has to keep in mind that in the end too much search will destroy all his hopes of victory

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Good read. Thanks!

 

About some more in depth strategies, I got a question: 

So far I do not see any solid reason for half the content. Being the "underdog" player I am, I really like to utilize what others dismiss. I enjoy doing things differently.

My current campaign, where I do the OL, is very balanced. No quests swinged in favor of anyone, in fact it went back and forth multiple times. A sure heroes-win was stopped with dark charm, moving the tank into the lava, while also utilizing traps on the low attribute heroes to stall, turning to a near OL win, whereafter the heroes made some extremely good rolls and damage-spiked, sending my large monsters to hell, getting back on track winning the quest. 

So my thinking was to allow me some leeway for more experimental configurations.

 

As it is, a lot of the status effects/conditions seem rather pointless to me. If I can take away a full action (stunned), or deny movement entirely (immobilized) for one full turn, why would I bother with conditions like "doomed" or "bleeding"?

 

 

Bleeding = -1 Action with an option to mitigate

Stunned = -1 Action ALWAYS...   

 

Dommed = 1 extra damage, easy to get rid of

Weakened = -1 armor (=mostly 1 extra damage) AND -1 damage, takes a full action to get rid of (=THE most important resource).

 

 

So my question would be: Are there any reasonably successful paths to develop for the OL that involve those "weaker" powers, utilizing combos maybe with Ghosts and fire damage? 

 

I would really like to try something a bit different, but I also fear it might be so tremendously pointless that I totally gimp my act 2 game-play. 

 

Any experiences you guys can share in that regard? What would also interest me: Did anyone find a good use for Bandits? Denying gold to the heroes is strong, but getting them to pull it off is really hard imho.

Edited by Dreepa

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Hello everyone,

I've read a lot of Descent posts here at FFG Forum  and also another forum so I decided to give something back and post something here and there.

There are often questions about Overlord strategies so I came up to write my experience as an Overlord player.

Some things are common sense and well-known. Other stuff I haven't read so far.

As you read through the text, you will see that of the both existing opinions about the balance in Decent I belong

to the “as a hero player Descent is hard as ****”-side.

1. Mindset

Descent is a resource-game. The two resources are actions and fatigue.

In order two win you have to maximize your actions and minimize the actions and fatigue of the heroes

(the heroes vice versa).

Indeed but we need to stress a third ressource : GOLD. It is that ressource that makes heroes win. It is the fuel for heroes besides the "action" ressource (fatigue enters in that 2nd category as i see it)

As Heroes, In ACT I and rumors you definitively have to  ask yourself if you will burn some of your actions to optimize the search.

It may make you lose an encounter but sometimes 4 search is far better than wining encounter I or even the quest.

So the Overlod has to keep in mind that in the end too much search will destroy all his hopes of victory

 

 

So much this. In my current campaign (with me as OL) the **** Treasure Hunter has picked so much gold and treasure chests, they don't have room for all the gear they have (I'm serious). Not only they have insane damage output, but they are too tanky. I'm being totally slaughtered...

 

I'm having fun though, as I play only for fun, luckily.

Edited by AndrewMM

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Hello Overlord-Players,

thanks a lot for your appreciation and constructive feedback. It is nice to see that this post started a discussion about different things.

So everybody can get something out of it.

 

 

2. General

  • first and only goal: fulfill winning conditions!

 

 

While I like much of what you have to say, I disagree with the above statement.

 

There are many, many encounters (either part 1 or part 2 where you actually get quest rewards) where your first and only goal is to search and maximize your gold.  In fact, there are a fair number of quests where the rewards offered do not out weigh the value of maximizing the gold for the heroes, and its not even close.

 

This is especially true in those quests where either the entire quest is slanted against the heroes, or if by losing the first encounter, the 2nd one is now slanted against the heroes.

 

It is at this point that you need to make intelligent decisions as to what is truly possible, and what in the long term will maximize your chances for winning the finale.

 

 

Gold is an important factor in Descent. Let's assume the heroes don't care about winning a quest and just maximizing gold until the final.

For act II items they are heavily dependent on luck and getting the right items. The OL side always gets some benefit. I personally like

extra XP for my deck as well as some relics (Bones of Woe for example). Even those relics bound to a lieutenant give a small edge over the heroes in the final.

 

The overall gist of my approach even slows down the 'just searching'-playstyle because the OL focuses on his winning condition

(and to get there a fast as possible).

 

 

From what I'm told, my goal isn't to win as the Overlord, but to allow everyone to have a good time beating me. 

The hardest part of being the OL. Your are strictly an opponent, but without being a bit of a DM, things might not become enjoyable. Most common example is the 'beating the living s*** out of the weakest hero' strategy.

When playing Descent, you don't have to mind losing:p Ideally, both parties win 50/50 of the quests. So I try to pick my battles, going all in for certain quest rewards, but trying out different, more fun to play combinations in quests where I don't really need/ want the reward. 

 

 

This stays true for special types of players/group composition. If my group finds an error of mine so they win quickly they are wondering if let them win and not playing competitive. Granted you can do it in subtle ways, but still my group is wondering. On the other side they are super happy when they win knowing I dit everything to prevent that.

Picking battles/quests where you don't care loosing winning and trying something new is hard in a campaign. At least because of your bought deck and chosen plot deck.

 

 

Nice thread. One thing though is that you left out plot decks and also didn't mention the new monsters like brood walkers in your discussion of conditions.

 

Thank you. Plot decks make a huge difference and the strategy can go deep... I mean really deep. I think it's common sense that Zacharets deck

with its 13 cards is one of the best. Just because it boosts your OL deck. 'Sole purpose' - this says it all.

I can add the other monsters too in respect to my criteria, but I never have played with them. So I have no real experience with them.

The above mentioned monsters I have tried and found very beneficial. Changelings are one of my favorites ;-)

 

 

GOLD. It is that ressource that makes heroes win. It is the fuel for heroes besides the "action" ressource (fatigue enters in that 2nd category as i see it)

As Heroes, In ACT I and rumors you definitively have to  ask yourself if you will burn some of your actions to optimize the search.
It may make you lose an encounter but sometimes 4 search is far better than wining encounter I or even the quest.
So the Overlod has to keep in mind that in the end too much search will destroy all his hopes of victory

 

 

Even a full equipped hero falls to a web trap, pit trap, whatever and you can reduce his fatigue. All this buys time to finish your goal.

If you just reduce his fatigue you achieve that he can't use his skills that often than without the reduction. All this benefits you.

Of course there are hero compositions that are challenging and as the OL you should always support creating good hero combinations at the start of the campaign.

In this case everybody has fun.

 

Rumors are pretty nice hero wise. As an OL I only bring them to the table if I think my heroes are too weak. Let's face the truth. Even though the OL get's some

sort of benefit, Rumors will highly increase the chances of the heroes to win the final because of gold and extra shopping steps.

 

As it is, a lot of the status effects/conditions seem rather pointless to me. If I can take away a full action (stunned), or deny movement entirely (immobilized) for one full turn, why would I bother with conditions like "doomed" or "bleeding"?

[...]

So my question would be: Are there any reasonably successful paths to develop for the OL that involve those "weaker" powers, utilizing combos maybe with Ghosts and fire damage? 

{...]

Any experiences you guys can share in that regard? What would also interest me: Did anyone find a good use for Bandits? Denying gold to the heroes is strong, but getting them to pull it off is really hard imho.

 

Thank you for you appreciation.

As you already said: stunned and immobilized are (in my eyes) the most effective conditions. If you can get them - take them.

But you also have to take into account that for example the Medusa isn't often the best choice for certain quests. So you have to take

another monster.

Why I like the other listed Conditions? Because the heroes can't ignore them and they need an action to remove.

Some of them directly attack the resource fatigue the other give a small advantage for you (heroes have weaker attacks, have to use suboptimal positioning, etc). All of this buys time.

 

In my opinion combining different conditions to work together is hard to pull off. Because Descent is an high dynamic game for me I like the 'reactive-playstyle'.

So if I play a card/use a monster I want all effects take place immediately. The same problem with bandits. They are strong but to use their special ability I have to set things up. So I never use them because of their special ability. I use them because they are overall good monsters. If I can get a search card 'by accident' even better ;)

 

For your thoughts on combining different things also consider the Magus deck and 'Word of Misery'. You can build a nice knock-out-spiral with 'Word of Pain', 'Word of Despair' and 'Diabolic Power'. Add some 'burning' and 'doomed' for more flavor.

Sounds good but it just doesn't fit my direct playstyle. But it's fun to pull off ;-)

 

Have a nice night

Thalim

 

€ spelling

Edited by thalim

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Good read. Thanks!

 

About some more in depth strategies, I got a question: 

So far I do not see any solid reason for half the content. Being the "underdog" player I am, I really like to utilize what others dismiss. I enjoy doing things differently.

My current campaign, where I do the OL, is very balanced. No quests swinged in favor of anyone, in fact it went back and forth multiple times. A sure heroes-win was stopped with dark charm, moving the tank into the lava, while also utilizing traps on the low attribute heroes to stall, turning to a near OL win, whereafter the heroes made some extremely good rolls and damage-spiked, sending my large monsters to hell, getting back on track winning the quest. 

So my thinking was to allow me some leeway for more experimental configurations.

 

As it is, a lot of the status effects/conditions seem rather pointless to me. If I can take away a full action (stunned), or deny movement entirely (immobilized) for one full turn, why would I bother with conditions like "doomed" or "bleeding"?

 

 

Bleeding = -1 Action with an option to mitigate

Stunned = -1 Action ALWAYS...   

 

Dommed = 1 extra damage, easy to get rid of

Weakened = -1 armor (=mostly 1 extra damage) AND -1 damage, takes a full action to get rid of (=THE most important resource).

 

 

So my question would be: Are there any reasonably successful paths to develop for the OL that involve those "weaker" powers, utilizing combos maybe with Ghosts and fire damage? 

 

I would really like to try something a bit different, but I also fear it might be so tremendously pointless that I totally gimp my act 2 game-play. 

 

Any experiences you guys can share in that regard? What would also interest me: Did anyone find a good use for Bandits? Denying gold to the heroes is strong, but getting them to pull it off is really hard imho.

Just seeing a possible rules mistake:) You make it seem like you are defeating the tank, but he would only suffer damage from 'dark charm moving' since he is not ending HIS turn in a lava space. 

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Good job!!

 

My main reaction would be about the monster list. I find hard to categorize monsters in general. Some monster groups really seem to fit some specific role, but you can find flexibility in most of them. Which means I don't necessarly value a monster group just based on what it seems to be best at doing, I would always take the quest rules into consideration first. I sometimes pick slightly worse monsters for a task so I can get the flexibility of having them do something else if I ever need it.

 

Otherwise I respect the fact you champion Basic, but I think you underestimate what Basic II can do.

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My main reaction would be about the monster list. I find hard to categorize monsters in general. Some monster groups really seem to fit some specific role, but you can find flexibility in most of them. Which means I don't necessarly value a monster group just based on what it seems to be best at doing, I would always take the quest rules into consideration first. I sometimes pick slightly worse monsters for a task so I can get the flexibility of having them do something else if I ever need it.

Thank you for your appreciation.

 

The quest rules are taken into consideration in the step 'selecting monsters' ("Do I need some blocking, moving etc power?").

If I need/want some AoE I can choose between Shadow Dragon, Elemental, etc.

Of course Elemental isn't strong in AoE because of the lack of surges. But it's highly flexible with 4 movement points, ranged attack, health and his other abilities.

So if I see I can utilize its other powers I'll choose it over the Shadow Dragon.

 

I think we're playing the same way here.

 

Otherwise I respect the fact you champion Basic, but I think you underestimate what Basic II can do.

I am always looking at Basic II and think: wohoo, nice, that sounds like fun - and it really is.

However I want

  • additional actions (movement, attack),
  • some traps (deny actions for heroes) and
  • something to beef up my little innocent pets (surges, extra damage)

Basic I gives me all of that directly. Basic II has some similar Cards but they are weaker (Blinding Speed for example)

But that's because of my gamestyle. With my thinking it is hard to use other classes (infector, enchanter, etc) as well.

 

Are there other overall strategies as an OL?

Do I miss something in Basic II? Can you give some examples where Basic II really shines?

 

He he - this threat can evolve to a good source for upcoming OL's :)

 

Have a nice weekend

Thalim

 

€: just added the Basic II cards for this overall strategy to the first post

Edited by thalim

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Good read. Thanks!

 

About some more in depth strategies, I got a question: 

So far I do not see any solid reason for half the content. Being the "underdog" player I am, I really like to utilize what others dismiss. I enjoy doing things differently.

My current campaign, where I do the OL, is very balanced. No quests swinged in favor of anyone, in fact it went back and forth multiple times. A sure heroes-win was stopped with dark charm, moving the tank into the lava, while also utilizing traps on the low attribute heroes to stall, turning to a near OL win, whereafter the heroes made some extremely good rolls and damage-spiked, sending my large monsters to hell, getting back on track winning the quest. 

So my thinking was to allow me some leeway for more experimental configurations.

 

As it is, a lot of the status effects/conditions seem rather pointless to me. If I can take away a full action (stunned), or deny movement entirely (immobilized) for one full turn, why would I bother with conditions like "doomed" or "bleeding"?

 

 

Bleeding = -1 Action with an option to mitigate

Stunned = -1 Action ALWAYS...   

 

Dommed = 1 extra damage, easy to get rid of

Weakened = -1 armor (=mostly 1 extra damage) AND -1 damage, takes a full action to get rid of (=THE most important resource).

 

 

So my question would be: Are there any reasonably successful paths to develop for the OL that involve those "weaker" powers, utilizing combos maybe with Ghosts and fire damage? 

 

I would really like to try something a bit different, but I also fear it might be so tremendously pointless that I totally gimp my act 2 game-play. 

 

Any experiences you guys can share in that regard? What would also interest me: Did anyone find a good use for Bandits? Denying gold to the heroes is strong, but getting them to pull it off is really hard imho.

Just seeing a possible rules mistake:) You make it seem like you are defeating the tank, but he would only suffer damage from 'dark charm moving' since he is not ending HIS turn in a lava space. 

 

Well... moving through more than one lava field does a bit damage and could help to knock the tank out ;)

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Good read. Thanks!

 

About some more in depth strategies, I got a question: 

So far I do not see any solid reason for half the content. Being the "underdog" player I am, I really like to utilize what others dismiss. I enjoy doing things differently.

My current campaign, where I do the OL, is very balanced. No quests swinged in favor of anyone, in fact it went back and forth multiple times. A sure heroes-win was stopped with dark charm, moving the tank into the lava, while also utilizing traps on the low attribute heroes to stall, turning to a near OL win, whereafter the heroes made some extremely good rolls and damage-spiked, sending my large monsters to hell, getting back on track winning the quest. 

So my thinking was to allow me some leeway for more experimental configurations.

 

As it is, a lot of the status effects/conditions seem rather pointless to me. If I can take away a full action (stunned), or deny movement entirely (immobilized) for one full turn, why would I bother with conditions like "doomed" or "bleeding"?

 

 

Bleeding = -1 Action with an option to mitigate

Stunned = -1 Action ALWAYS...   

 

Dommed = 1 extra damage, easy to get rid of

Weakened = -1 armor (=mostly 1 extra damage) AND -1 damage, takes a full action to get rid of (=THE most important resource).

 

 

So my question would be: Are there any reasonably successful paths to develop for the OL that involve those "weaker" powers, utilizing combos maybe with Ghosts and fire damage? 

 

I would really like to try something a bit different, but I also fear it might be so tremendously pointless that I totally gimp my act 2 game-play. 

 

Any experiences you guys can share in that regard? What would also interest me: Did anyone find a good use for Bandits? Denying gold to the heroes is strong, but getting them to pull it off is really hard imho.

Just seeing a possible rules mistake:) You make it seem like you are defeating the tank, but he would only suffer damage from 'dark charm moving' since he is not ending HIS turn in a lava space. 

 

Well... moving through more than one lava field does a bit damage and could help to knock the tank out ;)

 

Yes it totally could! It is not likely though. 4 Damage is the most that could be achieved this way, presuming that warriors with 5 speed usually don't have the health to make a great tank (Durik might be an exception).

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You could increase the Damage he suffers if you make sure he is doomed before you take control of him. I know, not very likely but it could work ;)

(He would take 8 damage not 5, right? every step is a single instance of taking damage or not?)

 

Edit: I just thought about it again.... if this works I WILL try to do this to the heroes the next time I play as OL....   whatever it takes...   :P

Edited by Kaisho

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You could increase the Damage he suffers if you make sure he is doomed before you take control of him. I know, not very likely but it could work ;)

(He would take 8 damage not 5, right? every step is a single instance of taking damage or not?)

 

Edit: I just thought about it again.... if this works I WILL try to do this to the heroes the next time I play as OL....   whatever it takes...   :P

Let's hope it is not Grisbane the Berserker with Brute then:p 18 health and only 3 speed. The best way would be to immobilize the hero so he can't move and must end his turn in the lava. You would have to fatigue him because Charge will grant him movement despite being immobilized...

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You could increase the Damage he suffers if you make sure he is doomed before you take control of him. I know, not very likely but it could work ;)

(He would take 8 damage not 5, right? every step is a single instance of taking damage or not?)

 

Edit: I just thought about it again.... if this works I WILL try to do this to the heroes the next time I play as OL....   whatever it takes...   :P

Let's hope it is not Grisbane the Berserker with Brute then:p 18 health and only 3 speed. The best way would be to immobilize the hero so he can't move and must end his turn in the lava. You would have to fatigue him because Charge will grant him movement despite being immobilized...

 

If he begins his turn immobilized he couldn't spend Fatigue for movement points, or was that changed in a Errata?

 

The Card says in english: "You cannot perform move actions or suffer 1 Fatigue to gain movement points. Discard this card or token at the end of your turn."

They would to have the immobilized to save him.... But that's also something I would want to try... Why does the OL only have one Dark Charm card? :(

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You could increase the Damage he suffers if you make sure he is doomed before you take control of him. I know, not very likely but it could work ;)

(He would take 8 damage not 5, right? every step is a single instance of taking damage or not?)

 

Edit: I just thought about it again.... if this works I WILL try to do this to the heroes the next time I play as OL....   whatever it takes...   :P

Let's hope it is not Grisbane the Berserker with Brute then:p 18 health and only 3 speed. The best way would be to immobilize the hero so he can't move and must end his turn in the lava. You would have to fatigue him because Charge will grant him movement despite being immobilized...

 

If he begins his turn immobilized he couldn't spend Fatigue for movement points, or was that changed in a Errata?

 

The Card says in english: "You cannot perform move actions or suffer 1 Fatigue to gain movement points. Discard this card or token at the end of your turn."

They would to have the immobilized to save him.... But that's also something I would want to try... Why does the OL only have one Dark Charm card? :(

 

Charge allows him to 'move up to his speed' which is different than performing a move action or using fatigue to gain movement points. And you could use monsters that can immobilize. But the change of having tiles with lava and the possibility to choose monsters that immobilize is only substantial if you own a lot of H&M collections.

 

Edit:

From the official FAQ

 

Q: When Immobilized, can a figure use skills and abilities that allow movement not related to a move action?

A: Yes. Any skill or ability that does not refer to performing a move action may be used while a figure is Immobilized. This includes skills or abilities that remove a figure from the map and place it in another space, skills or abilities that allow a figure to move an amount of spaces based upon its Speed, and skills and abilities by which a figure can gain movement points. 

 

So yeah...Immobilize is much harder for monsters than for heroes since a lot of classes have such skills. 

Edited by Ceasarsalad101

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Ah you are right of course.... The same as with the boots which give you one movement point, right?

:lol:

 

I got all expansions (excpet the Lieutnants Packs and the coop ones.... (and of course the Mist of thingy, because it's not realesed in my country yet...)).

 

Which Lieutnant packs would be the best to help the OL? I just ordered a special offer with the first 6... (Splig, Belthir, zachareth and the 3 Farrows) and would like to have a few tips about how to use them.

I almost know nothing about them...  :P

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