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Felswrath69

Plasma Torps vs. Reinforced Deflectors

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If this attack hits, after dealing damage, remove 1 shield token from the defender.

After you suffer 3 or more damage from an attack, recover 1 shield (up to your shield value).

 

This is a tough one, if it's simultaneous then whomever has initiative triggers first. You could argue that the damage is suffered one-at-a-time as each shield is removed/card dealt, and that once 3 damage is taken you immediately recover a shield, then continue dealing any remaining damage (because of the wording 3 or more I think this is unlikely, and that it's supposed to happen after all of the damage is dealt).

Edited by FireSpy

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If this attack hits, after dealing damage, remove 1 shield token from the defender.

After you suffer 3 or more damage from an attack, recover 1 shield (up to your shield value).

 

This is a tough one, if it's simultaneous then whomever has initiative triggers first. You could argue that the damage is suffered one-at-a-time as each shield is removed/card dealt, and that once 3 damage is taken you immediately recover a shield, then continue dealing any remaining damage (because of the wording 3 or more I think this is unlikely, and that it's supposed to happen after all of the damage is dealt).

 

 

From rules reference: 

"Deal Damage: If the defender was hit, it suffers one damage for each uncancelled ... "

 

Dealing damage and suffering damage are the same things, just from two different point of views, so they have the same timing window. So you are right: initiative will decide, which one triggers first. 

Edited by Ubul

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This never really got much traction, but I still think it's worth finding an answer. I don't feel like initiative is the right answer on this. If that were the case than initiative is going to determine two different outcomes as far as damage output. In the vein of simultaneous fire rules, etc. I feel as if it should be a ruling one way or the other (I.e. Explain which triggers first).

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This never really got much traction, but I still think it's worth finding an answer. I don't feel like initiative is the right answer on this. If that were the case than initiative is going to determine two different outcomes as far as damage output. In the vein of simultaneous fire rules, etc. I feel as if it should be a ruling one way or the other (I.e. Explain which triggers first).

One of the first illustrations for initiative-based decisions WAS determining two different outcomes as far as damage output:

R2D2 vs Anti-Pursuit Lasers.

 

When the concept was introduced in Wave III, these two shared a timing window, and the difference was whether you had full HP or not.

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Cool, good to know. APL is a relatively unused card so I wasn't aware of that interaction. I'm assuming they stated that the R2 shield recharge vs the APL damage was initiative dependent?

At the time, yes, though I hazedly remember something about the ruling getting erratad out.

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Doesn't it all come out in the wash?  I mean if I deal 3 damage and strip a shield, and you have reinforced deflectors, and regen a shield after taking 3 damage, what difference does it make?  The net result is zero essentially. Lose one, Gain one, or Gain one, lose one - sort of 2 sides of the same coin isn't it?

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Doesn't it all come out in the wash?  I mean if I deal 3 damage and strip a shield, and you have reinforced deflectors, and regen a shield after taking 3 damage, what difference does it make?  The net result is zero essentially. Lose one, Gain one, or Gain one, lose one - sort of 2 sides of the same coin isn't it?

Suppose you're attacking a Ghost with exactly 3 shields left, and your Plasma Torpedoes do 3 damage. If you get the shield back from Reinforced Deflectors first, then the Torpedoes can strip it (and you do a total of 3 damage, comparing the game's final state to its initial one). If you strip the token first and then the target recovers, you leave your target with 1 shield (and do a total of 2 damage).

Fortunately, there is a clear-cut answer: the player with initiative resolves his or her effect first.

Edited by Vorpal Sword

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Doesn't it all come out in the wash?  I mean if I deal 3 damage and strip a shield, and you have reinforced deflectors, and regen a shield after taking 3 damage, what difference does it make?  The net result is zero essentially. Lose one, Gain one, or Gain one, lose one - sort of 2 sides of the same coin isn't it?

Suppose you're attacking a Ghost with exactly 3 shields left, and your Plasma Torpedoes do 3 damage. If you get the shield back from Reinforced Deflectors first, then the Torpedoes can strip it (and you do a total of 3 damage, comparing the game's final state to its initial one). If you strip the token first and then the target recovers, you leave your target with 1 shield (and do a total of 2 damage).

Fortunately, there is a clear-cut answer: the player with initiative resolves his or her effect first.

 

Ok.  I do see the point in this example, but lets use this one - What if I am a higher PS pilot shooting at the Lower PS Ghost with Reinforced deflectors.  Shouldn't the attacker be the one to choose?  He shoots first, and regardless of whether the Ghost pilot has initiative or not, the Ghost has the lower PS.  It would be much the same as the simultaneous fire rule.  If we had equal PS, the Ghost would get to shoot back if he were taken out.  But, if the Ghost were a lower PS, he doesn't get the benefit of being able to shoot back.  Thus, to my way of thinking, the lower PS pilot doesn't get the opportunity to choose whether this effect happens before or after the fact.  Am I wrong?

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I would contest that the two triggers on these upgrade cards, are not the same timing.

While plasma torps triggers "after dealing damage." The RD upgrade triggers once 3 damage has been applied to it during the dealing damage phase. It does not wait until after dealing the damage. Once 3 damage has been reached, regardless of how many more damage would be dealt, there is a shield waiting to be recovered during the deal damage phase. Therefore you would get the shield before it moves on to the after dealing damage part. 

Edited by Full Metal Wingman

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