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Boba Rick

Starting Crooked

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Listening to Nova Squadron Radio this morning they were talking about the idea of ships starting out on their own side crooked.  As in, instead of starting out in a nice, straight, boxy, 90* angle - you start your ships in a crooked, 22* angle.  Then, when you turn, you're really off kilter and hard to get a bead on.   

 

Anyone tried this sort of thing?

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I've done it before with a pair of HLC Scyks so that they can "fishtail". It's as close to slow-rolling as they can get, without having the 1 straight maneuver. I never did well with them, but I'm confident that had little to do with the 22.5 degree angle, and moreso had to do with using Scyks.  :P

 

I don't really buy the "throw off your opponent" idea here. A good opponent will still be able to predict your moves, and understand where your arc will be positioned. The advantage will come from having a better arc than an opposing ship for flanking purposes. It's possible to have a shot on your opponent, while they don't have a shot at you, without the need to boost/barrel roll. If ships are parallel, they either both have shots, or they both don't.

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That's the very basis for a lot of fortress builds:  set up crooked so you bump into each other and don't move, forcing your opponent to fly into your turrets.  If they don't, you wait until they're where you want them and then move out.

That's not really what he's talking about (nor is it as much about "throwing off your opponent"). It helps you achieve shots without return fire, especially in conjunction with boost and/or barrel roll. If it's something you can use and practice a lot, it might make a lot of difference in your games.

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I'm experiencing major deja vu (I swear I started a topic on this ages ago).  Yes, it came from Attack Wing where a player showed that if you can master this 22.5 degree deployment you can boost/barrel roll into shots when your opponent (who most of the time sets up at 90 degrees) will not have a shot.  Its very hard to explain but I'm telling you it works wonders! 

 

I finally found the original article on BGG:  https://boardgamegeek.com/article/14147797

 

Basically, if you setup at 22.5 degrees, your bank maneuvers become "straight" at the enemy.  Try it.  The only thing that adjusts is your firing arc.  If you do a 2 bank setup like that its almost like setting up "normal" and doing a 3 straight.  However you have the added benefit of your ships being a little more unpredictable because your opponents may have a harder time visualizing maneuvers. 

 

It doesn't really work with boosting large ships because most of the time those ships want to hang out on the board edge nascar-style.  And for the love of god never try it with Echo.  My brain melted the one time I tried it.

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Angles are relative, you being slighlty off 90 is the same as them being slighlty off 90.

There is no angular advantage, you may gain some advantage if rocks are placed in a way that's beneficial for you going at angles. The only advantage would be against someone just moving straight and ignoring your ships positions and orientations, but if they are doing that then it won't matter how you lined up anyways.

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People have a hard time visualizing a small change in angle? That's truly pathetic. I'm sorry, it doesn't throw off vizuals that hard. I can definitely see though where the firing arc is incredibly useful. This usually happens in most games after someone blocks your turn and it allows you a shot where they can't shoot you. Outside of that though, it's been a common thing, at least in my area (and the greater california area actually) since wave 1 so nothing new or ground breaking there.

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Sometimes I aim ships to be able to fly through the spots in between Asteroids and Debris. There's also when I want to make it seem like I'm going after another ship that has been placed before one of mine

 

If anything not starting the ship straight forward can offer some other options.

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People have a hard time visualizing a small change in angle? That's truly pathetic. I'm sorry, it doesn't throw off vizuals that hard.

 

I've seen it many times, if all you ever do is play to the square edge of the board, things get wonky when the board edge isn't square anymore!  I notice it a LOT when people go flying over asteroids, etc, after they've been bumped and are at a weird angle. 

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Tough crowd.

I set up my swarm at 22 degree angles, and I found that when it came to blocking, having that extra little turn on the ship made it a better blocker, whether my opponent was doing straight maneuvers, banks, or turns. It is easier to judge and sometimes clear if the ships are directly parallel to each other, but if they are at odd angles, the maneuvers aren't as easy to judge or pull off.

 

Also it made for K-turns to be easier for me to pull off because the ships were less likely to hit each other. The left group could pull off a 4K, and the right group could pull off a 3K, and they didn't hit each other because they were slightly off.

I dunno. It was just something I tried, and it seemed to work, especially with barrel rolling out of arcs.

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22.5 degrees is great, especially because you can set up asteroid lanes to be at this angle, and not at a 90 or 45 degree angle.  Its also 1/2 of 45 degrees, so you can right left bank to go straight, without drifting in a direction, while keeping more of a forward angle. I'll often start my ships on angles like this.

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Tried it once. Hit too many rocks. Never again.

People have a hard time visualizing a small change in angle? That's truly pathetic.

 

Gee, thanks, buddy.  <_<

I'm not here to coddle you. If you are having that much of an issue, I suggest just tossing down some ships and a bunch of asteroids and get that visualization down. It's an important part of the game. What happens when you get blocked while turning? Same thing as starting off rotated. This is in fact, purely a game skill type category that all players, even kitchen table pilots, should have a good grasp of.

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The one time I see this being objectively useful as more than just a tactic to confuse and disorient your opponent is when you have the barrel roll action and higher ps than your opponent. This makes it so you can barrel roll out of arc and still have arc on them.

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Tried it once. Hit too many rocks. Never again.

People have a hard time visualizing a small change in angle? That's truly pathetic.

 

Gee, thanks, buddy.  <_<

I'm not here to coddle you. If you are having that much of an issue, I suggest just tossing down some ships and a bunch of asteroids and get that visualization down. It's an important part of the game. What happens when you get blocked while turning? Same thing as starting off rotated. This is in fact, purely a game skill type category that all players, even kitchen table pilots, should have a good grasp of.

Last time I got bumped while moving I did end up flying off the board a few turns later. It happens, but not often and it's usually not a big issue. Either way, there's no need to be an ass to people about it. Some people don't have as good spatial reasoning as others, but still enjoy flying tiny space ships around and shooting at each other. Other people lack tact.

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I can see where it would be helpful. Especially for the slow roll if you don't have the 1 straight. It's also useful if your opponent hasn't allowed enough room between his own ships to bank properly. He turns to meet you, plays bumper cars with some of his ships giving you a momentary advantage.

In this game I'll try and make use of any advantage wether through design, happenstance or my opponent's screw up.

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I guess what I mean by throwing my opponents off is this:

I have found that primarily in this game, not always, but much of the time, people like symmetry. If you really pay attention to rock placement, ship placement, etc, you'll find that often times there is symmetry, even if it is subliminal. Often times people like to see symmetry on the board because if things aren't symmetric, it just kind of irks them a little. This is especially true with people with OCD. You will find rocks are placed in a triangle, rectangle, or star formation without necessarily even intending to do so. Likewise with their ships. They like to set up in a box, rectangle, or some other form of symmetric formation to start.

So when my opponent sets his ships up aimed directly at my end of the board, and then I set mine up at 22 degree angles, it's just a little irksome to their psyche, which then messes with their movement judgments, rock judgments, etc. It adds a little more difficulty in predicting where my firing arcs will be because they won't be aimed directly at an edge of the board or on a 45 degree angle.

I know and understand some players have been doing this for a long time, but I haven't really seen it explored and explained in depth, especially when you're talking about 7 TIE fighters all at goofy angles even to each other. So, it is just something that I'm toying around with. Some people it won't affect them at all, but some people it will. It will be a subconscious thorn in their minds, and they won't necessarily know why. Or maybe they will know why but they just haven't had to try and deal with it as of yet.

Either way, it can be an advantage for me, especially if i have done some work in figuring out maneuvers, rock placements and such where it may be a new thing for my opponent. And to me, it's the next evolution of the shark.

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