Question on the use of downloaded upgrade cards.

[DJensen 1]

I've only been playing with a few friends and now want to start playing at my local game store on their Star Wars night. When playing with friends we have used upgrade cards that we've downloaded from the wealth of on line resources. I'm wondering if in non tournament organized play if there is an established convention on whether this is okay or not.

Please let me know your thoughts.

Thanks.

[Darth Emphatic 148]

If its a casual night, meaning no stakes involved, people dont typically care if you proxy your list. I do this regularly just because it is easier than pulling out cards every time I want to play something new. You still need to have the ship and pilot base tile though.

[StevenO 2,996]

There is no such thing as downloaded upgrade cards.  The ONLY way to get upgrade cards is to acquire them from the expansions that include them.

 

 

Opinions will vary but you want to bring made up cards to a game and I am a physical thinker who likes to use my hands to frame my thoughts.  I bet you can guess which of use will be called a cheater more often.

[thespaceinvader 17,568]

In casual play, no-one will care if you print your list or print proxy cards, or both.  Indeed, printed lists are often easier if there are serious space limitations.

 

In tournaments, proxies are an absolute no-no.

[jokerkd 422]

It's very common for people to just bring a printout of their list using one of the online squadron builder

 

Your best bet is to just contact the store owner and ask

[Hexdot 1,340]

There is no such thing as downloaded upgrade cards. The ONLY way to get upgrade cards is to acquire them from the expansions that include them.

Opinions will vary but you want to bring made up cards to a game and I am a physical thinker who likes to use my hands to frame my thoughts. I bet you can guess which of use will be called a cheater more often.

I must disagree. There are many reasons to bring high quality printed upgrades instead of purchased ones to a casual play. There is no point in buying ships you do not want only to obtain one copy of a card unless you play for a prize. The word "cheater" is a harsh one. Perhaps you want to.try a new combo, you need four cards and own only two, or simply you keep originals at home and play with sleeved HQ colour prints.

If I want to play casual and find another player who refuses to.proxy, I.simply say "OK, good luck.finding another player tonight".

Edited March 19, 2016 by Hexdot

[treybert 893]

Even in casual, always ask if proxy is ok. Some people are very put off about the idea. I've said no to proxy a few times, but only because I was prepping a tourney list that obviously couldn't use unreleased cards (most common cards to proxy imo). I've never rejected a game though for something like "mind if I play with proxies? I don't have 4 tacticians"..... b/c you know, FFG is jerks like that sometimes. 

[Chillmire 57]

My only experience with proxying was when a few friends and I sat down to play and someone wanted to try out the cards that will come in the Veterans expansion. This was fine because the cards aren't even out yet and he wanted to test to see if it was worth buying or if he'd invest elsewhere, but I don't think anyone would have minded proxying other cards. Everyone has their own (in colour-coordinated sleeves!) so we generally just make a pool of upgrades and we can dip in if there's something we're missing.

[DraconPyrothayan 6,107]

My group proxies often.
How else am I going to get 13 copies of Draw Their Fire for a Team Epic experiment?

[Parravon 5,217]

I'm wondering if in non tournament organized play if there is an established convention on whether this is okay or not.

I'm thinking the key here is "organised" play. Who is organising this "non-tournament" event? Contact them. They should be able to tell you yes or no.

 

Jokerkd suggested contacting the store owner and asking him. I'm thinking his reply would likely be "no, you have to buy them from me." After all, the guy's trying to make a buck, right?

 

I find there's absolutely nothing wrong with the "try before you buy" method of testing pilots and upgrades in a non-tournament game. I'm about to undertake a fairly intense series of games assisting another player in getting ready for some bigger tournaments, and I know for sure I'm going to be using a lot of proxy cards. He's going to be using the cards from his collection, but I'm just the punch bag for him to try his lists on.

[bottleface 25]

I've only played casual with my buddies and they have zero issue with me using printed lists of cards I don't own.  Chances are during casual play at my store it would be cool as well.  Tournament there's no proxies so in the one I recently played I had to borrow a couple sensor jammers off a buddy.  That said, if it's casual, ask people if they're cool with proxies and depending on the crowd it's likely they'll be cool with it.  As others said, you shouldn't have to dish out cash on a ship you won't use just to try out an upgrade in casual play.

[Rapture 499]

Ask first, if you hang around with people who are prone to thoughtless anger and frustration. You are doing something that has no impact on your opponents experience, provided that you are using released cards. So, the reality of the situation is that no one has any real reason to complain other than that you are not giving money to FFG.

Edited March 21, 2016 by Rapture

[VanorDM 11,599]

Jokerkd suggested contacting the store owner and asking him. I'm thinking his reply would likely be "no, you have to buy them from me." After all, the guy's trying to make a buck, right?

Actually at my LGS the owner would be fine with someone new using proxies for a game or three. He'd rather see you in the store playing with proxies then not in the store at all, because if you're there and playing the chance of you buying stuff is a lot higher then if you're not there at all.

[USCGrad90 884]

Casual environment,  it's usually OK if they are released ships/upgrades.  Ask first.

Tournament setting - No.

[DraconPyrothayan 6,107]

 

Jokerkd suggested contacting the store owner and asking him. I'm thinking his reply would likely be "no, you have to buy them from me." After all, the guy's trying to make a buck, right?

Actually at my LGS the owner would be fine with someone new using proxies for a game or three. He'd rather see you in the store playing with proxies then not in the store at all, because if you're there and playing the chance of you buying stuff is a lot higher then if you're not there at all.

 

Playing the game is the best advertising campaign for buying the game, for both player and casual observer.

[VanorDM 11,599]

Playing the game is the best advertising campaign for buying the game, for both player and casual observer.

Exactly. If it were the store championship or something then yeah he'd want you to bring the cards in, but for Wednesday night proxy would be cool.

We're looking to start something with 40k Kill Team there, and I mentioned to a guy who never played 40k that the books are quite expensive. He pointed out there's ways to find them for free if you look. But maybe the owner wouldn't like that. He said he'd be fine with not selling someone the book if it meant they were buying models.

[DJensen 1]

Thanks for all the feedback. I'm looking forward to trying out my squadrons against a new group of players.

[joliversc 23]

I've used proxies when trying out a new squadron. For instance, I'm considering adding retrofitted astromechs and R2's to my four T-70 list. Before I buy all the expansions I would need to outfit this list before I know if I even like it (3 more Y-wings and another T-70 expansion),  I'll ask if my opponent minds if I proxy for play test purposes.

 

Should this list end up as one that I like and intend to add to my regular list rotation, I would purchase the upgrade cards via the expansion packs or on E-Bay. For tournament use or not. I've seen widespread proxying as a general rule lead to madness before. Being able to just conjure up multiple copies of Thermal Detonator or (Insert any card here) at will, leads to chaos as all the other players in the group will feel free to do the same. Why wouldn't they?

 

I've seen this happen in other games before and am against the practice of long-term Proxying, Then again who am I to -tell- you and your group what to do. I would ask my opponent on a case per case basis and not simply make proxying a group rule.

Edited March 23, 2016 by joliversc

[Hexdot 1,340]

There are many ways of going "proxy". If a player proxy with post it notes and little writing...ooooops !!!

If playing with no money involved plays with sleeved HQ colour prints, 100% accurate, I can not understood why somebody can argument about "cheating". "You must buy a Falcon to equip Draw their Fire !!! But I play Scum only.... Cheater, you must buy the Falcon". A truly nonsense.

[Hexdot 1,340]

And about multiple copies of one card...

If I can afford to buy 6 khdsfdg Fighters to equip my swarm of Ties with Crack Shot, I am a good player that conjures good squadrons. If you proxy the cards, 100% accurate, you are a bad player and you are cheating. "You own 2 TFA sets and 2 T70 blisters, and you play with proxy IA cards. Cheater, you are damaging FFG. Cheater. I play Super Meta list 100%, you own 200 models but you are damaging FFG because you proxy IA cards".

Buy the minis, enjoy the game. And unless you go Tournament style, proxy a lot

Edited March 24, 2016 by Hexdot

[joliversc 23]

Once a group starts proxing as a general rule, where does it end? If you're going to proxy upgrade cards why not ships as well? I've seen other tabletop Miniature games devolve to this level before.

All you really need are a new and old core set and a large based ship or two and you can proxy everything from there. I'm sure they have detailed pilot and base art somewhere on the internet. And yes these things do happen, in other games at least. Another snag when it comes to proxying is soon everyone is flying the exact same lists. Sure it happens now in some extent but I'm sure this rises exponentially once you start letting everyone proxy willy-nilly. 

 

I've already stated that -you- and -yours- can do as y'all see fit. But I'm posting this in case any of the players in my little corner of the X-Wing world read this thread. We have players who often visit this forum.

Edited March 24, 2016 by joliversc

[Daefish 11]

I think one of the other things to be cognizant of would be of the environment you're playing in.  I play at home (so super casual, proxy, I would be okay with it for a couple cards if you're testing a build) and I play at a local gaming shop where it's relatively casual with store championships occurring every few weeks/months. 

 

If I showed up to my FLGS with 10 tie-fighters, and every card printed out and in binders and tell everyone that I'm proxying to fly, I think the FLGS would be come less friendly.  Indirectly you're taking money out of their pocket and in many ways they are providing you in return a service by letting you play without paying.  I know there's been a couple times I've gone in, realized I didn't have a card I need and bought the ship pack it has right there to keep playing.  Had I proxied, the store would have lost that money.  And that's money I'm happy to part with to the local store (vs Amazon or something) because of that intangible benefit of being in a live environment, with live people, playing for (effectively) free.  

 

Just my opinion.  If I was at a store and playing casually and someone wanted to play and asked if it was okay if they proxied C3P0 because they weren't sure how much they'd like it in their build and wanted to try it before dropping $40 on it (or whatever it costs these days), by all means, I'm game.  If we're in a store championship and you asked to the same, I'd absolutely tell you no way and would expect the TO would either disqualify you or ask you to change your build.  

Edited March 24, 2016 by Daefish

[gekigangerv 63]

Casual games, feel free to proxy.  Tournament settings, you are not free to proxy.

[Hexdot 1,340]

If you expend money on a regular basis in your LGS and build a considerable fleet, I can guarantee you that the owner will have no problem with your proxied cards. I read about proxy ships with printed cardboards, etc. This is weird. I do not see such kind of games. People play X wings minis, or go VASSAL.

Also many players buy not only.x wing, but also other board games ( and FFG provides us with many superb games ) wargames, merchandising, comic, art books, etc. You do not support your LGS simply playing x wing. If player A buys a x wing blister four times a year, no proxy, and player B 200 euros per month, and proxy, who is the most desirable client?

In my opinion, if you play with the models you buy in that LGS, there are no reasons to look proxy with angry eyes if playing casual and you can see your rival's pilots and upgrades as the game is supposed to look.

[Firespray-32 5,424]

Unless you're playing in a tournament, where you need a copy of every card you equip, proxy your heart out.

 

Buying expansions for cards is (unless you have to because of tournament rules) madness.
 

 

If I showed up to my FLGS with 10 tie-fighters, and every card printed out and in binders and tell everyone that I'm proxying to fly, I think the FLGS would be come less friendly.  Indirectly you're taking money out of their pocket and in many ways they are providing you in return a service by letting you play without paying.

 

Nobody can call you a freeloader in this situation given you bought ten TIE fighters.

 

And if you had to buy six K-fighters to run a Crackswarm would you buy six K-fighters or would you simply not run a Crackswarm? The lost sales here is a fallacy.

 

Another snag when it comes to proxying is soon everyone is flying the exact same lists.

 

Sure, if your local players have the creativity of a concrete box.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Blue Five