XX-23 S-thread tracer question

[Mysma Hachi 0]

Question on XX-23 S-thread tracers:

The card reads "...each friendly ship at range 1-2 of you may acquire a target lock on the defender..."

Does this mean your friendly ships don't need target lock on their own action bar to get the lock? Since they aren't "taking a target lock action" but instead "acquiring a target lock?" Can the missiles give target locks (albeit one time) to ships that normally can't?

[thespaceinvader 17,568]

Correct.  'Acquire a target lock' is independent of having the action on your bar.

 

This is a general rule, by the by.  If an upgrade tells you to do something that you ordinarily couldn't, you can do it by dint of the upgrade telling you so - e.g. Expert Handling allowing people to Barrel Roll who don't have that action on their bar, or Fire Control System allowing TIE Phantoms to acquire TLs.

[StephenEsven 632]

I have a related question.

 

If you Hit with the XX-23 S-thread tracers, against a target at Range 3, and you are surrounded by a swarm of TIEs, some of them are bound to be more than Range 3 from the target. Does all friendly ships at Range 1-2 of you get a target lock on the Defender, or only the ones that are also in Range 3 of the Defender?

I assume the latter, but would like to hear your thoughts.

[Jeff Wilder 5,326]

It's the latter.  You still have to follow the rules for acquiring the target lock Tracers permit you to acquire ... and one of those rules is being in Range 1-3.

[Slugrage 5,011]

After reviewing the RRG, and in lieu of the eventual (probable?) FAQ, I'd go with the latter description too - only ships within Range 3 of the designated enemy ship.

Edited March 18, 2016 by Slugrage

[Jeff Wilder 5,326]

Note that the RRG is not the only rules source.  The Learn to Play booklet is explicit about the range requirement to acquire a TL.

[StephenEsven 632]

Then we are all in agreement. But I could imagine someone arguing the other way, if he was shooting the tracers.

[Vulf 911]

Hmm....

 

So Colonel Jendon's ability is actually quite different from Thread tracers and Dutch Vander.

 

Jendon just passes the blue Target Lock token to someone else, they don't actually "acquire" a Target Lock, but they get the practical benefits of having done so. And the ST-321 title makes that unlimited range.

 

Ships equipped with Long Range Scanners could be given Target Locks from Thread tracers on ships range 3+ from them, but not ships at range 1-2!

And Colonel Jendon could pass along a blue Target Lock token to allow a ship with Long Range scanners to have a lock on a ship at range 1-2.

 

And similarly, Colonel Jendon's ability will not trigger the V1 title's free Evade Action.

Edited March 18, 2016 by Vulf

[Ubul 887]

 

After reviewing the RRG, and in lieu of the eventual (probable?) FAQ, I'd go with the latter description too - only ships within Range 3 of the designated enemy ship.

 

Range only matters when you perform the Target Lock action.

 

See Colonel Jendon and the ST-321 title. From across the play area he can acquire a Target lock, and hand it off to someone else. This has never been disputed.

 

Rules on the cards trump rules on in the book, If Thread traces says that the friendly ships within 1 or 2 of you get a Target Lock, then they get a Target Lock.

The Ship that fired Thread Tracers is friendly to itself, it will also get a Target Lock.

 

 

Colonel Jendon is a bad example, since he just assign his existing blue TL token to another ship, and it not the same as acquiring a target lock (the same applies to Manaroo).

[Vulf 911]

I totally changed my opinion mere moments after posting that! Hah!

 

The curious case of Dutch Vander is the reason why!

Edited March 18, 2016 by Vulf

[Ubul 887]

I totally changed my opinion mere moments after posting that! Hah!

Too slow 

[joliversc 23]

Can Thread Tracers give you additional target locks on ships when you already have one there or somewhere else?

[Forgottenlore 9,838]

Can Thread Tracers give you additional target locks on ships when you already have one there or somewhere else?

A ship can only maintain a single TL at a time unless an ability SPECIFICALLY says otherwise. If you end up with more TLs than you can maintain, you have to discard them till your legal.

[Engine25 2,910]

Yeah, at first I thought that you could use Tracers to give your allies locks on ships that are out of their range, but at this point, I don't think that's the case. They still have to be within R3 of the target, but don't have to have the Target Lock icon themselves.

[Parravon 5,217]

The rules for acquiring a target lock are very specific. It's Range 1-3, and unless the XX-23 card specifically states a different range (which it doesn't) then the Range requirement is unchanged.

The rules state a card can overrule the general rules, but in this case the card doesn't alter the range restriction, so it remains dictated by the general rules.

[markcsoul 2,135]

I'm sure others already know this. But I just realized the other day you could use guidance chips with thread tracers to increase your odds of hitting the target.

[verizonwired 0]

Ok, so I can use my tracers. When I shoot them and hit the target, all friendly ships within range 1-2 of the ship hitting with the tracers may acquire a target lock. This includes the ship that fire and hit with the tracers?

Also when acquiring a target lock, you must designate the target first then measure. If you do not meet the range requirement you do not get the target lock. Ok easy, so my ship hits gets the target lock, everyone within range 1-2 gets to acquire the target lock on defender, which has become the designated target, so long as they are at range.

The next part which is tricky for me, once you find out that your designated target, in this case the defender due to the tracers, is not in range or is an invalid target, you may designate another target as the target of your lock, rinse repeat until you have no valid targets or you get a lock on someone you have designated.

Is this correct?

[digitalbusker 2,248]

Ok, so I can use my tracers. When I shoot them and hit the target, all friendly ships within range 1-2 of the ship hitting with the tracers may acquire a target lock. This includes the ship that fire and hit with the tracers?

Yes, it doesn't specify "each other friendly ship", so the effect works for the owner too.

Also when acquiring a target lock, you must designate the target first then measure. If you do not meet the range requirement you do not get the target lock. Ok easy, so my ship hits gets the target lock, everyone within range 1-2 gets to acquire the target lock on defender, which has become the designated target, so long as they are at range.

The next part which is tricky for me, once you find out that your designated target, in this case the defender due to the tracers, is not in range or is an invalid target, you may designate another target as the target of your lock, rinse repeat until you have no valid targets or you get a lock on someone you have designated.

Is this correct?

No, the effect of the Tracers specifies the ship that is to be locked, so if it's out of range, there are no other legal targets.

[Parravon 5,217]

 

Ok, so I can use my tracers. When I shoot them and hit the target, all friendly ships within range 1-2 of the ship hitting with the tracers may acquire a target lock. This includes the ship that fire and hit with the tracers?

Yes, it doesn't specify "each other friendly ship", so the effect works for the owner too.

Also when acquiring a target lock, you must designate the target first then measure. If you do not meet the range requirement you do not get the target lock. Ok easy, so my ship hits gets the target lock, everyone within range 1-2 gets to acquire the target lock on defender, which has become the designated target, so long as they are at range.

The next part which is tricky for me, once you find out that your designated target, in this case the defender due to the tracers, is not in range or is an invalid target, you may designate another target as the target of your lock, rinse repeat until you have no valid targets or you get a lock on someone you have designated.

Is this correct?

No, the effect of the Tracers specifies the ship that is to be locked, so if it's out of range, there are no other legal targets.

 

If the tracers "target" is out of range, you don't a target lock. If a ship already has a target lock on a different target (and doesn't have a Weapons Engineer), it must drop its current target lock IF it wishes to acquire the new target lock from the Tracers.

[verizonwired 0]

But if you are running through the acquire target lock rules, when unable to make the lock on the designated target, designate another target.

When you read through the FAQ on acquiring target locks if you can onto acquire it, designate another target, if there are no valid targets, perform a different action.

Edited October 1, 2016 by verizonwired

[Ubul 887]

But if you are running through the acquire target lock rules, when unable to make the lock on the designated target, designate another target.

When you read through the FAQ on acquiring target locks if you can onto acquire it, designate another target, if there are no valid targets, perform a different action.

 

It is not a regular target lock action. It is an effect of an upgrade card, and it explicitly restricts you to TL the defender, overriding the standard target lock rules.

Edited October 1, 2016 by Ubul

[verizonwired 0]

Then would it not allow ships out of range to still acquire, if it over writes the rules. What about long range scanners now?

[Parravon 5,217]

If you had long range scanner equipped, you could target lock the designated defender if you were out range normally. 

 

The only thing that is overruled by the tracers, is the choice of target. The standard rules for ranges are not.

[verizonwired 0]

I still don't understand they the attacking model would get the target lock then. Someone said it's because the card doesn't say each other friendly model, but I don't recall any card ever saying that.

Edited October 1, 2016 by verizonwired

[Parravon 5,217]

I still don't understand they the attacking model would get the target lock then. Someone said it's because the card doesn't say each other friendly model, but I don't recall any card ever saying that.

The ship that fired the tracers is included when it says "each friendly ship at Range 1-2...".

 

Cards that don't include the active ship would be: Jan Dodonna, Attanni Mindlink, Systems Officer and Wingman. There's also several pilot abilities that refer to another friendly ship which excludes themselves.