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shotbyscott

cheat caught on video??????

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having a PhD in physics, I'm all about experiments. so I tried to "nervously" finger a dial the way the guys does in the video.

 

I am now ready to publish a paper, titled: "It is actually quite hard NOT to change your maneuver when you're moving the finger and thumb in a counter rotating fashion.", as the guy in the video does repeatedly. why would you risk changing your dial unless you're actually trying to change it? I think this guy practiced at home.

 

whether his opponent considers him a nice guy or not is quite irrelevant, how many people keep a close eye on their opponent while moving your own ship?

 

also, whether he posted the video himself or not doesn't matter. haven't you heard of the criminals who self-incriminate? like that guy who posted on his facebook account his running away from the police and he got caught because of the photos he posted.

 

as part of the conclusions of my paper, I can also report that the guy in the video has opposable thumbs, a trait commonly linked to some kind of intelligence, something that might have to be reconsidered at this point.

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There was no:

-face

-name

-no personal data

 

Unless there are regulations agains nicknames now, no one did anything wrong. Plus there are backed up suspicions of cheating here.

 

 

You are not the owner of that video, re-uploading this thing should lead to one strike on your youtube account and theoretical getting sued for damages. The last part is very theoretical, the first part is very real ;-)

 

No one republished it. He just linked it. 

 

Nope, already back on youtube. And happily used on reddit. 

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Without throwing more fuel to the fire; it worries me that his fiddling happens exactly after the opposing player reveals his dials and is executing his actions. Especially in the opening at 0:55 mark and as people state, at around 2:30 mark. The timing and the movement of his hands troubles me. Call it nervous behaviour, but he should at this point be aware of the tournie rules and as such would know NOT to touch his dials unless he in doing so, informs his opponent.

Edited by Armatic

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Some people really do their best to put themselves in trouble because they want to be reprimanded. Given what I have seen in the video and read so far about him, this seems to be that kinda person.

So, he manipulated the dial subsequently to avoid an Alphastrike against his Decimator during a first round game of a SC and made it public himself...!

Now what?

The issue is now in official hands and he will be disciplined accordingly. (Which is probably also satisfying his needs to finally have someone to chastise him). Everybody's happy by then.

I wouldn't get too pumped up about the issue.

After all it's not been Worlds Final round.

Second, it's not you who got cheated on.

And third, it's also just a dice game about plastic chits and printed cardboard with a material value of a twinkie.

And finally:

"This is from him!" ;)

Edited by John Tenzer

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Nervous?  So it appears the dial picked up and looked at it.  Then when still holding it with the thumb in the reveal window (great place for some leverage and maybe even reading what's under it if your figures are sensitive enough) some fidgeting happens at which time the dial is again looked at and even more fidgeting occurs.

 

Sure need to admire the foresight that went into the Decimator taking that big swing away from the direction the X-Wing were going especially after the X-Wings made that sharp turn towards it that even caused a bump which was obviously going to happen.  Darn lucky those X-Wings didn't just power forward toward Vader which would have left the Decimator out of range and sucking whatever comes out of the back of X-Wings.  Part of me wonders if Vader isn't the one whose dial would have been the fidgeted one if T-70s had pressed on towards it.

 

I guess the Empire did have reasons to be nervous as the start of that fight when it looked like the Resistance scum were going to gang up on Vader but instead feinted to take out the big boat first.

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I was willing to give the benefit of the doubt before I saw the video (When I get nervous I tend to fiddle with stuff), but having seen it, he clearly only fiddles with the Decimator (not the Advanced) dial, and only after he sees one or more of the opponent's ships final position.

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Nervous?  So it appears the dial picked up and looked at it.  Then when still holding it with the thumb in the reveal window (great place for some leverage and maybe even reading what's under it if your figures are sensitive enough) some fidgeting happens at which time the dial is again looked at and even more fidgeting occurs.

 

Sure need to admire the foresight that went into the Decimator taking that big swing away from the direction the X-Wing were going especially after the X-Wings made that sharp turn towards it that even caused a bump which was obviously going to happen.  Darn lucky those X-Wings didn't just power forward toward Vader which would have left the Decimator out of range and sucking whatever comes out of the back of X-Wings.  Part of me wonders if Vader isn't the one whose dial would have been the fidgeted one if T-70s had pressed on towards it.

 

I guess the Empire did have reasons to be nervous as the start of that fight when it looked like the Resistance scum were going to gang up on Vader but instead feinted to take out the big boat first.

 

What does it even matter to you? He touched the dial, he should be disqualified no matter what. You make here an case, solve it without, enjoy your cleverness and in the end it exactly matters zero dips. Manipulating the dial without consent is in general against the rules, it literally does not matter if you change your maneuver or not. In that phase of the game just moving the thing is already tournament illegal. With very good reasons, because it eliminates any discussions and is absolutely clearly to spot and stop. 

Edited by SEApocalypse

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I do think that intent must be considered.  I think this, outside of the basic "he picked up his dial without permission" infraction (which is an assumption as there is no audio, and I don't speak German so that wouldn't matter for me even if there were ;) ), must factor into whether or not a banning is in order and for how long - if that is indeed the outcome.  I think that it is obvious he changed his maneuver, not once but twice, with the intent of gaining an advantage in the game - one that certainly aided, if not directly led to, his victory. 

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having a PhD in physics, I'm all about experiments. so I tried to "nervously" finger a dial the way the guys does in the video.

 

I am now ready to publish a paper, titled: "It is actually quite hard NOT to change your maneuver when you're moving the finger and thumb in a counter rotating fashion.", as the guy in the video does repeatedly. why would you risk changing your dial unless you're actually trying to change it? I think this guy practiced at home.

 

whether his opponent considers him a nice guy or not is quite irrelevant, how many people keep a close eye on their opponent while moving your own ship?

 

also, whether he posted the video himself or not doesn't matter. haven't you heard of the criminals who self-incriminate? like that guy who posted on his facebook account his running away from the police and he got caught because of the photos he posted.

 

as part of the conclusions of my paper, I can also report that the guy in the video has opposable thumbs, a trait commonly linked to some kind of intelligence, something that might have to be reconsidered at this point.

I'm glad someone less lazy than me followed up and tried it. I imagine it's close to impossible to not move a dial like that unless it's the most rigid dial ever.

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Nervous?  So it appears the dial picked up and looked at it.  Then when still holding it with the thumb in the reveal window (great place for some leverage and maybe even reading what's under it if your figures are sensitive enough) some fidgeting happens at which time the dial is again looked at and even more fidgeting occurs.

 

Sure need to admire the foresight that went into the Decimator taking that big swing away from the direction the X-Wing were going especially after the X-Wings made that sharp turn towards it that even caused a bump which was obviously going to happen.  Darn lucky those X-Wings didn't just power forward toward Vader which would have left the Decimator out of range and sucking whatever comes out of the back of X-Wings.  Part of me wonders if Vader isn't the one whose dial would have been the fidgeted one if T-70s had pressed on towards it.

 

I guess the Empire did have reasons to be nervous as the start of that fight when it looked like the Resistance scum were going to gang up on Vader but instead feinted to take out the big boat first.

 

What does it even matter to you? He touched the dial, he should be disqualified no matter what. You make here an case, solve it without, enjoy your cleverness and in the end it exactly matters zero dips. Manipulating the dial without consent is in general against the rules, it literally does not matter if you change your maneuver or not. In that phase of the game just moving the thing is already tournament illegal. With very good reasons, because it eliminates any discussions and is absolutely clearly to spot and stop. 

 

 

What is the reason behind this reply?  Am I not allowed to offer my opinion on the situation after viewing the video?  Maybe this shouldn't matter to anyone if it can't matter to me.

 

From my quote post:  

Paragraph one is the description of what happens.  I know "nervousness" was cited long ago as a reason for things although the method that nervousness was displayed sure looks like a means of cheating.

Paragraphs two and three should be read as a bit of sarcasm that is being used to explain likely reasons for unusually high nervousness.  It also make an observation that that second Decimator move appears to be absolute genius although had the X-Wings not performed as they did it would seem far less productive.  I'm sure I'm not alone in wondering what would have happened had those X-Wings just charged ahead.

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His action of placing the Decimator dial all the way across the board after he flipped it, as if he was making sure that his opponent saw the maneuver that was on the dial, looks like a subconscious response to his shady dial handling.  Especially since he didn't flip with Advanced dial and "show" it to his opponent.

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having a PhD in physics, I'm all about experiments. so I tried to "nervously" finger a dial the way the guys does in the video.

 

I am now ready to publish a paper, titled: "It is actually quite hard NOT to change your maneuver when you're moving the finger and thumb in a counter rotating fashion.", as the guy in the video does repeatedly. why would you risk changing your dial unless you're actually trying to change it? I think this guy practiced at home.

 

whether his opponent considers him a nice guy or not is quite irrelevant, how many people keep a close eye on their opponent while moving your own ship?

 

also, whether he posted the video himself or not doesn't matter. haven't you heard of the criminals who self-incriminate? like that guy who posted on his facebook account his running away from the police and he got caught because of the photos he posted.

 

as part of the conclusions of my paper, I can also report that the guy in the video has opposable thumbs, a trait commonly linked to some kind of intelligence, something that might have to be reconsidered at this point.

As being a normal guy without a PhD I too sat down and recreated, as best I could, this video. I was very surprised how easy it was to change your dial, there is virtually nil resistance. I put all my dials in a bag, randomly chose different dials and did this experiment. As XBear has said, "It is actually quite hard NOT to change your maneuver when you're moving the finger and thumb in a counter rotating fashion.". This is why FFG has stated that you cannot touch your dial without express permission from your opponent. You could be playing someone who is focused on their game and not noticing you fiddling with the dials. 

 

I did this experiment 100 times to gather a large enough population to get enough data for a conclusion. Yes it bored me to tears after the 5th one, but I felt I had to gather enough data to make the correct conclusions. 

 

Lessons learnt for everyone here is, regardless if this guy cheated or not, he should never have touched the dial as FFG regulations state. Also record your games if you can, how well can you trust your opponent if winning is everything to them in this fantastically fun game? Sad state of affairs if people are cheating over a game, which at the end of the day has 0 impact on your actual life.

Edited by Archangelspiv

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having a PhD in physics, I'm all about experiments. so I tried to "nervously" finger a dial the way the guys does in the video.

 

I am now ready to publish a paper, titled: "It is actually quite hard NOT to change your maneuver when you're moving the finger and thumb in a counter rotating fashion.", as the guy in the video does repeatedly. why would you risk changing your dial unless you're actually trying to change it? I think this guy practiced at home.

 

whether his opponent considers him a nice guy or not is quite irrelevant, how many people keep a close eye on their opponent while moving your own ship?

 

also, whether he posted the video himself or not doesn't matter. haven't you heard of the criminals who self-incriminate? like that guy who posted on his facebook account his running away from the police and he got caught because of the photos he posted.

 

as part of the conclusions of my paper, I can also report that the guy in the video has opposable thumbs, a trait commonly linked to some kind of intelligence, something that might have to be reconsidered at this point.

As being a normal guy without a PhD I too sat down and recreated, as best I could, this video. I was very surprised how easy it was to change your dial, their is virtually nil resistance. I put all my dials in a bag, randomly chose different dials and did this experiment. As XBear has said, "It is actually quite hard NOT to change your maneuver when you're moving the finger and thumb in a counter rotating fashion.". This is why FFG has stated that you cannot touch your dial without express permission from your opponent. You could be playing someone who is focused on their game and not noticing you fiddling with the dials. 

 

I did this experiment 100 times to gather a large enough population to get enough data for a conclusion. Yes it bored me to tears after the 5th one, but I felt I had to gather enough data to make the correct conclusions. 

 

Lessons learnt for everyone here is, regardless if this guy cheated or not, he should never have touched the dial as FFG regulations state. Also record your games if you can, how well can you trust your opponent if winning is everything to them in this fantastically fun game? Sad state of affairs if people are cheating over a game, which at the end of the day has 0 impact on your actual life.

 

 

I am now applying for a grant to further study this problem. you seem to have a knack for science in spite of your lack of formal higher education, so feel free to send your resume. Ideally, X-wing players would volunteer to run an appropriate number of "dial manipulation" experiments, so that we rule out any variance across different geographical locations (after all, the original instance happened in Germany, and who knows if the same dial behavior can be replicated in the US?) and other parameters. Your responsibility would be to coordinate the volunteers so that every trial is conducted to proper scientific guidelines. Salary is negotiable.

 

I will also request FFG's sponsorship to continue this important research, though I fully guarantee that any results will not be influenced by FFG's financial support.

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First off all sorry for my bad English.

 

I am from Germany and the Guy u are talking about is someone i know a little bit from our Tournaments.

 

I dont know him privat and we are not friends (except Facebook) but we know each other. As far as i can tell he is very friendly and helpful in Games. I am really shocked how this is handeld by the community in Germany & USA. Should this action (if it was intentionally) be punished ? Of course it should. Can everybody say here he cheated never in his Life in a Game / Girl (something else), Mistakes were maken there is no doubt. But i think we should not massively exaggerate this.

 

I watched the video xx times and as far as i can tell i am not 100 % sure if its just nervous behavior or intent action. Its now up to FFG to make a decision. But i thin NO ONE can really proof it because no one saw the Dial before it was lay down.

 

As i said sorry for my bad english ;-) have i nice day and fly causual

 

Well... I've never cheated at anything (or anyone).

So there's that.

Hell, I work with kids and I never even "cheat" to let them win in games. 

The whole "who has never cheated" defense is pretty lame, to be honest.

As for him being nice, I've known plenty of people who seemed nice turn out to be horrible. Latest one was a man working at the school I was working at, who turned out to be a pedophile.

Now, I'm certainly not comparing the guy in the video to a pedophile, I'm just saying "the guy seems nice" isn't a good defense either.

If you're not 100% sure after watching the video, you should pick up one of your dials and just try to handle it the way the guy in the video handles it. 

If it doesn't move, then fine, feel free to doubt the video, but I've tried it and I cannot keep the dial at the same maneuver whilst doing the things he does in the video.

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First off all sorry for my bad English.

 

I am from Germany and the Guy u are talking about is someone i know a little bit from our Tournaments.

 

I dont know him privat and we are not friends (except Facebook) but we know each other. As far as i can tell he is very friendly and helpful in Games. I am really shocked how this is handeld by the community in Germany & USA. Should this action (if it was intentionally) be punished ? Of course it should. Can everybody say here he cheated never in his Life in a Game / Girl (something else), Mistakes were maken there is no doubt. But i think we should not massively [/size]exaggerate this.

 

I watched the video xx times and as far as i can tell i am not 100 % sure if its just nervous behavior or intent action. Its now up to FFG to make a decision. But i thin NO ONE can really proof it because no one saw the Dial before it was lay down.

 

As i said sorry for my bad english ;-) have i nice day and fly causual

 

Well... I've never cheated at anything (or anyone).

So there's that.

Hell, I work with kids and I never even "cheat" to let them win in games. 

The whole "who has never cheated" defense is pretty lame, to be honest.

As for him being nice, I've known plenty of people who seemed nice turn out to be horrible. Latest one was a man working at the school I was working at, who turned out to be a pedophile.

Now, I'm certainly not comparing the guy in the video to a pedophile, I'm just saying "the guy seems nice" isn't a good defense either.

If you're not 100% sure after watching the video, you should pick up one of your dials and just try to handle it the way the guy in the video handles it. 

If it doesn't move, then fine, feel free to doubt the video, but I've tried it and I cannot keep the dial at the same maneuver whilst doing the things he does in the video.

Also, he might be nice anyway. Just because he cheats in a game doesn't mean he's not nice in every other aspect of life.

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having a PhD in physics, I'm all about experiments. so I tried to "nervously" finger a dial the way the guys does in the video.

 

I am now ready to publish a paper, titled: "It is actually quite hard NOT to change your maneuver when you're moving the finger and thumb in a counter rotating fashion.", as the guy in the video does repeatedly. why would you risk changing your dial unless you're actually trying to change it? I think this guy practiced at home.

 

whether his opponent considers him a nice guy or not is quite irrelevant, how many people keep a close eye on their opponent while moving your own ship?

 

also, whether he posted the video himself or not doesn't matter. haven't you heard of the criminals who self-incriminate? like that guy who posted on his facebook account his running away from the police and he got caught because of the photos he posted.

 

as part of the conclusions of my paper, I can also report that the guy in the video has opposable thumbs, a trait commonly linked to some kind of intelligence, something that might have to be reconsidered at this point.

As being a normal guy without a PhD I too sat down and recreated, as best I could, this video. I was very surprised how easy it was to change your dial, their is virtually nil resistance. I put all my dials in a bag, randomly chose different dials and did this experiment. As XBear has said, "It is actually quite hard NOT to change your maneuver when you're moving the finger and thumb in a counter rotating fashion.". This is why FFG has stated that you cannot touch your dial without express permission from your opponent. You could be playing someone who is focused on their game and not noticing you fiddling with the dials. 

 

I did this experiment 100 times to gather a large enough population to get enough data for a conclusion. Yes it bored me to tears after the 5th one, but I felt I had to gather enough data to make the correct conclusions. 

 

Lessons learnt for everyone here is, regardless if this guy cheated or not, he should never have touched the dial as FFG regulations state. Also record your games if you can, how well can you trust your opponent if winning is everything to them in this fantastically fun game? Sad state of affairs if people are cheating over a game, which at the end of the day has 0 impact on your actual life.

 

 

I am now applying for a grant to further study this problem. you seem to have a knack for science in spite of your lack of formal higher education, so feel free to send your resume. Ideally, X-wing players would volunteer to run an appropriate number of "dial manipulation" experiments, so that we rule out any variance across different geographical locations (after all, the original instance happened in Germany, and who knows if the same dial behavior can be replicated in the US?) and other parameters. Your responsibility would be to coordinate the volunteers so that every trial is conducted to proper scientific guidelines. Salary is negotiable.

 

I will also request FFG's sponsorship to continue this important research, though I fully guarantee that any results will not be influenced by FFG's financial support.

Firstly I would like to say I cannot believe I wrote their instead of there...

I believe a pairing could work for the both of us XBear lol, I will send a resume post haste. As for cross geographical variance, I am in Australia, I did notice that the dial did try and turn the opposite way as in the Northern Hemisphere, much like the toilet water after flushing. I do like the idea of coordination of volunteers though, I wonder if the volunteers should know the hypothesis, exciting! You also mention pay! This is good news lol.

 

I believe FFG would be mad not to sponsor this important research, I mean it is their dials that bought this whole thread into being. Responsibility is a heavy burden!

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@XBear & archangelspiv: As an analytical chemist I would like to be a part of your team. Though I realize the chemist part is not likely to come into play here (but who knows where these trials might lead us), I feel like the analyst part could be a valuable asset as I spend most of each work day reviewing data, crunching numbers and inputting both into a database. I track trends, evaluate bias and conduct blind and double blind tests for verifications.

I feel like I could be a valuable and contributing member of your team. Please consider my inclusion.

Thank you.

Edited by thatdave

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FFG should ban this guy forever!

I don't know about that. The guy caught obviously and even more clearly cheating and at a nationals event got a ban until 2020 (if I'm remembering correctly). A lifetime ban is probably a little harsh lol. It's not like he was betting on games his team was in (Pete Rose baseball ref FYI).

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