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jokerkd

Is Adaptability optional?

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The reference card for Dual Upgrade cards states that when the equipped ship is placed, "it's equipped DU card can be be placed with either side face up"

They are not active until placed in the play area.

Can you choose to not place the card?

Is "can" synonymous with "may" in this case?

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No, all upgrade cards must be placed out with the ships. You chose each game which side of adaptibility will be active though.

This is the assumption I've always made, but is it in the rules?

I only have the rules reference available atm

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If you put it in your list, you have to put it on the table, just like every other card.  Literally the only difference is that it is not decided which effect it is having until you place the ship.

 

Or would you argue that you could choose not to place a given card from your list if you didn't want to?

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Maybe we should ask this question:  How would you word the ability so that the card MUST be put onto the ship when the ship enters play such that only one side is up?

 

To me the "Its equipped DU card" tells me that the card MUST go on the ship.  If it doesn't how could it possibly be "equipped" if it is nowhere to be seen?  It CAN be placed with either side up but it MUST be placed with a side up that you will be using for the game.  

 

If NOT using the card was an option what would that mean if you had a Dual Upgrade card that costs 4 points?  If you don't place it then where to those 4 points go?

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I dont know, but a rule quote would be helpful

I have a rule that says I can place it. I want a rule that says I must

 

Gather Forces: The players reveal their squads and gather all of the ships, cards, and other components necessary for their squads. Each ship in the squad must have the correct plastic ship, ship token, maneuver dial, Ship card, and any Upgrade cards chosen, as well as ID tokens if necessary

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I dont know, but a rule quote would be helpful

I have a rule that says I can place it. I want a rule that says I must

 

Gather Forces: The players reveal their squads and gather all of the ships, cards, and other components necessary for their squads. Each ship in the squad must have the correct plastic ship, ship token, maneuver dial, Ship card, and any Upgrade cards chosen, as well as ID tokens if necessary

Thank you

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So here's a thing.....

Cards aren't placed in the play area. The play area is 3'x3'. But the cards aren't active until they are placed in the play area.

Dont get me wrong. I now believe the intention is clear and would not be trying to pull this in a game.

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OK so if you play adaptability does that mean you can change what you play mid way through a round. Use the card as decrease pilot skill in the activation phase and then flip it over in the combat phase. Is that correct or are you stuck on the choice you make?

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OK so if you play adaptability does that mean you can change what you play mid way through a round. Use the card as decrease pilot skill in the activation phase and then flip it over in the combat phase. Is that correct or are you stuck on the choice you make?

No I believe you decide the facing after deploying the ships, and it stays like that for the entire game. If you play multiple games you can adapt at the start of each game.

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Why is it two sided anyway? Why not just print two different versions? Are there any in game effects that can turn an upgrade card over?

 

There isn't currently a way to flip it in-game, but the point of the card is that you can pick which version of it you want at the start of a game, and it being double-sided is the best way to achieve that. If the cards were separate, then there is the risk that one "half" could be left at home, and even if it wasn't you'd have a homeless upgrade card during each game.

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Why is it two sided anyway? Why not just print two different versions? Are there any in game effects that can turn an upgrade card over?

Adaptability can - at the start of the match.

 

That doesn't preclude later Dual Cards having a flip mechanic during play, it's just that this one doesn't.

 

As for why it's two sided - firstly, two sided means they can fit in more copies into the pack, which is very nice.  Secondly, two sided means you have both sides available at all times, so the 'choose a side during deployment' mechanic can work.  Having it be two different cards would be SO much more complicated to write from a rules perspective, if you wanted to acheive the same thing.

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Why is it two sided anyway? Why not just print two different versions? Are there any in game effects that can turn an upgrade card over?

I think it's double-sided so that you can write up a list for a tournament and not have to lock yourself into a decision as to which one you're going to use for the duration of the tournament (like every other upgrade). I think the option to choose at the time of deployment is an excellent new mechanic for the game. And it may see some interesting outcomes.

As for game effects that can flip a dual card over, there are none as yet... but in the future... who knows what FFG have up their sleeves?

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Why is it two sided anyway? Why not just print two different versions? Are there any in game effects that can turn an upgrade card over?

 

Because you can choose which way up to deploy it during a game. So, for example, two PS8 pilots and a PS9 with adaptability can choose to be PS 8,8 & 10 (to give them an answer to Dengar or Soontir Fel) or PS8, 8 & 8 (so if facing no-one better than PS7 they're all the same level and can move and shoot in whatever order they need).

 

As to flipping a card over, technically speaking, discarding an upgrade card means flipping it over (check the rules). Which is why Tomax Bren's ability lets him flip a card face-up (allowing him to re-use one-use elite talents).

 

Theoretically, the Boba Fett crew card, used on a pilot with Adaptability, would flip the card over - dropping them by 2 PS (or increasing, depending on which side was showing). There's almost certainly a better choice of card to discard in practice, but it's not impossible that it might cause a lovely action-denying car crash for the next turn that might be more valuable than taking out a cannon that wouldn't get to shoot as a result.

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Theoretically, the Boba Fett crew card, used on a pilot with Adaptability, would flip the card over - dropping them by 2 PS (or increasing, depending on which side was showing). There's almost certainly a better choice of card to discard in practice, but it's not impossible that it might cause a lovely action-denying car crash for the next turn that might be more valuable than taking out a cannon that wouldn't get to shoot as a result.

 

Since the wording of discarding almost certainly was written before the introduction of a dual-card, do we believe that this is the intended effect of Boba Fett in this case? I would assume the intent is that Boba Fett nullifies the effect of the dual-card.

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Theoretically, the Boba Fett crew card, used on a pilot with Adaptability, would flip the card over - dropping them by 2 PS (or increasing, depending on which side was showing). There's almost certainly a better choice of card to discard in practice, but it's not impossible that it might cause a lovely action-denying car crash for the next turn that might be more valuable than taking out a cannon that wouldn't get to shoot as a result.

 

Since the wording of discarding almost certainly was written before the introduction of a dual-card, do we believe that this is the intended effect of Boba Fett in this case? I would assume the intent is that Boba Fett nullifies the effect of the dual-card.

 

I certainly don't.  The rules for discarding say 'the card has no further effect except on squad point cost, and it is flipped over to denote this' or words to that effect.

 

They don't say anything about Dual Cards at all, and in the absence of that, assuming that a Dual Card changes effect rather than just stopping doing anything when discarded is incorrect.  The rules don't say to do that.

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As to flipping a card over, technically speaking, discarding an upgrade card means flipping it over (check the rules). Which is why Tomax Bren's ability lets him flip a card face-up (allowing him to re-use one-use elite talents).

 

Theoretically, the Boba Fett crew card, used on a pilot with Adaptability, would flip the card over - dropping them by 2 PS (or increasing, depending on which side was showing). There's almost certainly a better choice of card to discard in practice, but it's not impossible that it might cause a lovely action-denying car crash for the next turn that might be more valuable than taking out a cannon that wouldn't get to shoot as a result.

 

 

Due to a recent change in the Tournament Regulations this is no longer true in tournament play:

 

Tournament Regulations, pg 4:

"Discarded Upgrade Cards

When a player is instructed to discard an Upgrade card, he or she places it
under the Ship card it is attached to instead. Upgrade cards under Ship cards
are out of play. Discarded Upgrade cards remain under the Ship card to which
they are equipped; they are not placed into the score pile unless the ship to

which they are equipped is destroyed." 

 

This means that Boba Fett and Tomax Bren both work differently depending on whether you are playing by the tournament rules or not. The current wording on Tomax Bren gives him an ability that is now useless (though the same tournament regualtions would prohibit using him yet as he is unreleased content so it's not that big of a deal right now). 

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Dual upgrades have two sides because you can only include one card in a squadron that you must use the entire length of a tournament.  If you were just playing at home and could freely change your squadron it wouldn't matter be when you come in and have to use what you bring having two sides means having options.

 

To put this another way people have long been asking for ways to alter their squadron during a tournament.  Having a "sideboard" of available upgrade has been suggested but really runs into all kinds of questions.  Now with Dual Upgrades a squadron DOES gain some limited versatility when it finally hits the board.

 

Perhaps in the future there will be a card/mechanic that takes advantage of a dual upgrades two sides.  Until then it is now an either or.

 

The tournament rules about flipping a "discarded" card was always about bookkeeping.  Because points are scored based on a ship's starting value when a ship is destroyed that means having a means to keep track of any points on upgrades that get "discarded" during the course of play.  Originally that just meant turning them down but now it has you "hide" them under the ship's card as well to help avoid these questions; in any case when a card is discarded it should no longer have any use in play and only serves as points if the parent ship is destroyed.

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