Jump to content
Volkren

Road to legend

Recommended Posts

FFG even updated the core box with the new campaign book as the standard campaign, so imo it was appearent for some time that FFG isn't going to drop Descent anytime soon.

 

 

When did they do this? are you saying If I buy a new copy of the base game I get the Heirs of blood campaign? I have one of the first prints of the 2nd ed core game and I have thought about buying a replacement just for the massive amount of updates I've had to do to the books and cards for all the errata and FAQ updates. My quest guide and rule book have a lot of post it notes to correct text. In some cases the changes are so large I've had to just put in "refer to faq page 2" etc etc which I would really prefer to not need to do.

 

I would have to buy a replacement before selling my original due to wanting to keep my minis since I painted them tho. Right now I feel its not worth the trouble to do all this and it would cost me some money.

 

Regarding the topic of the App. I plan on getting the steam version and running it on a laptop. I really look forward to this App and agree that more options are always good for the product. I am a big fan of Descent and have almost all for 1st and 2nd editions. But I'm the only one in my group who enjoys the pvp element. Unfortunately for me that single element prevents it from ever being played. So I welcome the removal of one element to a game if it allows me to convince my friends to get it to the table. For me It's not the only reason I like descent (pvp). I am also really excited that the Exploration element is going to get more love. As this was one thing I really liked about 1st ed and the 2nd ed co-op. To me it is a call back to Hero Quest which is what made me a descent fan in the first place.

 

The more I think about it I like how they're making a new way to play as opposed to trying to automate the OL for the existing campaigns. It allows for much needed change to some mechanics that didn't sit well with a lot of players. I do hope they continue to make more pod co-ops that use more of the expansions. And I feel they should have much more cards to pull from for the rooms even if to some this would be "fiddley" as I never felt this way. Its silly that when you build the exploration deck in the co-ops you are shuffling 2-3 cards. It needs far far more cards to make up that deck and that would fix the issues with replay ability. 

 

It sounds like this App is doing just that. And I can't wait.

Edited by oldtimer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

FFG even updated the core box with the new campaign book as the standard campaign, so imo it was appearent for some time that FFG isn't going to drop Descent anytime soon.

 

 

When did they do this? are you saying If I buy a new copy of the base game I get the Heirs of blood campaign? I have one of the first prints of the 2nd ed core game and I have thought about buying a replacement just for the massive amount of updates I've had to do to the books and cards for all the errata and FAQ updates. My quest guide and rule book have a lot of post it notes to correct text. In some cases the changes are so large I've had to just put in "refer to faq page 2" etc etc which I would really prefer to not need to do.

 

I would have to buy a replacement before selling my original due to wanting to keep my minis since I painted them tho. Right now I feel its not worth the trouble to do all this and it would cost me some money.

 

I guess this happened a few months ago. Beware however that some retailers might still sell the old versions (I think there is a sticker on the plastic that says that the Heirs of Blood campaign is inside the box). Also I think reselling the game with the old Shadow Rune campaign might get hard.

 

On the topic of the App. To me it seems like the app has a lot of room to improve the PoDs. From pseudo-randoming the monster commands to a very big pool of random rooms, custom peril card effects tied to the theme of the room and the like.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 I guess this happened a few months ago. Beware however that some retailers might still sell the old versions (I think there is a sticker on the plastic that says that the Heirs of Blood campaign is inside the box). Also I think reselling the game with the old Shadow Rune campaign might get hard.

 

 

I bought a copy of descent last week and it came with the Heirs Of Blood Campaign. There wasn't a sticker to identify it as being the updated version, but on the back in the "Game Contents" section it says "40 Page Act I Quest guide, 32 Page Act II Quest Guide". I think the one that came with Shadow Rune campaign says "44 Page Quest Guide".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was thinking, while reading about automatic dice rolls on the other thread, that having a simulation mode on that app would be quite interesting to have, or at least as a great testing tool for FFG. Namely that a program like an extended version of this app would run the game from start to end, heroes included. While sounding ridiculous, it might be valuable to generate statistics and trends about hero/class composition for a particular quest, in order to help setting balance between the two sides.

 

You can see below a picture of the FFG team looping campaigns through this tool and getting the statistics out of it

 

computer.jpg

Edited by Indalecio

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was thinking, while reading about automatic dice rolls on the other thread, that having a simulation mode on that app would be quite interesting to have, or at least as a great testing tool for FFG. Namely that a program like an extended version of this app would run the game from start to end, heroes included. While sounding ridiculous, it might be valuable to generate statistics and trends about hero/class composition for a particular quest, in order to help setting balance between the two sides.

 

Not only would it be interesting for data purposes, but also for testing out some mechanics during turns. Ideally it would be able to catch human error during turns and help clarify rules questions...

 

At that point the game is running itself and we would no longer be required according to our A.I. overlords...

 

A mad, mad, fevered dream... but a boy can dream... a boy can dream...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

News on the App:

 

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2016/3/30/deeper-into-the-dark/

 

Dang, looks like there will be perma death!!! No more wussy knocked down and get back up like when you play against the OL, that's easy mode compared to this!

 

And ya the Peril seems like the way they will keep things challenging versus just rest and recover safely in the back.  Action management.

 

Also the IA structure of you go I go turns is much better than the traditional Descent you all go then I all go.  Very, very nice choice here.

 

Looks great, well done FFG.  Except this part :

 

Road to Legend offers a completely new way to play Descent, and the more physical Descent expansions you have, the more content Road to Legend can draw upon in your quests. Keep watching our website for more Road to Legend news, and get ready to download this free app in just a few weeks!

 

 

You said just a few weeks a few weeks ago! Although notice the key word 'free'?

Edited by FrogTrigger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Best update ever.

It does seem like they are using the app to make the game more like IA.

Alternating turns, the knockout limit, increasing peril (very similar to threat), hidden information.

It's almost like the app is descent 3rd edition.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The bit about the effects replacing the overlord deck makes me think that the plot decks won't be used with the app.

 

My suspicion is they are not. And if they are - we will not use the deck - it'll be managed in the app itself. Looks like if you own the LT pack - it will merely be for adding that LT into play? So you can use the mini?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The bit about the effects replacing the overlord deck makes me think that the plot decks won't be used with the app.

 

I think they will find some way to work them in just because without them their Lieutenant pack sales will suffer, maybe one of the end of round effects will sometimes be to "Draw a card from your chosen plot deck for this campaign and immediately put it into play" instead of making you test might like in the example.

 

Again that would be optional as you would have to indicate which Packs you own, but there must be a reason that they want to know this in the app.

Edited by FrogTrigger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

The bit about the effects replacing the overlord deck makes me think that the plot decks won't be used with the app.

 

I think they will find some way to work them in just because without them their Lieutenant pack sales will suffer, maybe one of the end of round effects will sometimes be to "Draw a card from your chosen plot deck for this campaign and immediately put it into play" instead of making you test might like in the example.

 

Again that would be optional as you would have to indicate which Packs you own, but there must be a reason that they want to know this in the app.

 

 

Good point there - I didn't think of that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Finally some long awaited news! By the way, they are aiming for a late april release. This is going to be so goooood! 

Edited by Netch

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Hrmm where did you read that? 

On one of their instagram pictures. Late april release on IOS and Android, and steam after. 

 

 

Hrmm link?  All I can find is some random guy saying he 'heard from FFG'.. hardly credible.

 

Not trying to put you under the interrogation lamp or anything but that is a statement that should be backed up by evidence if we can take it for more than anything but rumor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Hrmm where did you read that? 

On one of their instagram pictures. Late april release on IOS and Android, and steam after. 

 

 

Hrmm link?  All I can find is some random guy saying he 'heard from FFG'.. hardly credible.

 

Not trying to put you under the interrogation lamp or anything but that is a statement that should be backed up by evidence if we can take it for more than anything but rumor.

 

Haha no problem. Here https://www.instagram.com/p/BDgo3ILEcIG/?taken-by=fantasyflightgames, out in the comment section. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

alternating activations? Wow what a bummer.

 

I don't like this in IA and I really don't like this in a pure coop-mode. I still don't get why everyone seems to like these alternate activations so much. To me it always was a trade in tactics and strategy for an illusion of less downtime. After extensivly playing IA I found out that not only is the downtime in fact longer in IA, as the gameboard changes constantly and heroes are going to re-evaluate their plans 3-4 times per round, but also that there is a much weaker group feeling. When everyone goes together, the hero-party can truly combine their skills, alternating turns make this a very bad strategy, because you can't be sure that it's possible to combine anything. Effectivly this puts less emphasis on heroes helping each other out, a theme I hoped this coop would revolve around, but appearantly it isn't.

Instead we get this clunky alternating activations mechanic that makes coordinating a needlessly complicated task. I just have to think about how needlessly complicated it is in IA to move adjacent to each other, to unblock a doorspace and the like.

Additionally this will greatly inflate the time you have to switch from the game to the tablet. Now you have to grab the tablet after each hero's trun instead once per round.

 

I don't quite understand this decision, but I think a lot of people will be ecstatic, because appaerantly a lot of people prefer the illusion of less downtime and actually less tactical and strategical decisions to actual shorter downtimes and more strategic and tactical richness.

However especially in a coop these alternating turns imo won't come with the illusion of less downtime. In IA this worked, because the OL/IP doesn't have to wait until all heroes activated, before he could finally activate his monsters. For the heroes this worked, because the IP did not spend a good chunk of time at the start of his turn to think about what he is doing with all his monsters, but only has to activate one group, which splits the thinking time up.

In this app however, the OL does not take his time and think about all his turns. The app just displays the commands, so there is no illussion to be generated by breaking up the thinking time of the OL. Instead the heroes now will have to wait even longer and be more unable to plan. After each activation you have to take the tablet, activate monsters and put it back on the table, then another hero activates, again taking the tablet again activating a group and so on....

 

 

I really hope I'm wrong and this actually betters the game, as of right now I think they introduced a good amount of fiddlyness without a real imporvement in gameplay-depth.

 

How do you feel about this?

Edited by DAMaz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with much of what DAMaz says above.

 

I realize that this may touch off the flame war again by those who aren't interested in hearing from those of us who like D2e the way it is, but ...

 

Much of D2e's enjoyment for me is the interaction of OL vs Heroes, the planning that goes into turns, out guessing the other, etc.  I agree that much of this thematic play is completely lost when you alternate between 1 hero and the OL, the next hero, the OL, etc.

 

And if you think there is analysis paralysis in the game now, wait until you play alternating turns.  Hero 2 spends time considering all options, believes they know what they are going to do, and then the OL moves a monster/monster group in a completely unexpected manner, and the analysis begins all over again.

 

Not only does this lose the flavor of a true co-op and working together, but it introduces additional lag time.

 

I will download the app and give it a go, to see how well it plays; it is possible that once I see it in action, I can learn to live with the negatives and enjoy a new type of playing experience - it just isn't going to be as good as I think it could be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I´m also very disappointed about the change of turn order. This will mean we constantly have to use the tablet to activate the monsters after each hero´s activation, which will be more time consuming than doing it once per turn. Perhaps this is necessary to prevent monsters from alpha striking the heroes, but that´s not really Descent at play.

 

Until reading this, I was very hyped about the app, because I really liked what I read. But now there is a great uncertanity. I really doubt this is a good decision to make with Descent. Well, time will tell.

Edited by DerDelphi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I actually feel that the you go I go turn structure is much more challenging than blow all of our cool downs at one time and mow down a bunch of helpless monsters.  Nobody was asking them to shave time off the missions, were they?  Nobody was saying that either way is faster than the other, were they? I am confused by that.

 

Having the game constantly evolve by alternating turns adds a whole other level of strategy that just isn't present in the traditional Descent format.  As the OL in both games I much, much, much prefer the alternating strategy and find it to actually be quite a bit more challenging than all at once.  This will in turn help make the AI more challenging.  If you like playing games where you get to mindlessly blast down waves of monsters instead of having to pick your spots and adapt your game strategically turn to turn I can suggest Zombies Ate My Neighbours for the SNES.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I actually feel that the you go I go turn structure is much more challenging than blow all of our cool downs at one time and mow down a bunch of helpless monsters.  Nobody was asking them to shave time off the missions, were they?  Nobody was saying that either way is faster than the other, were they? I am confused by that.

 

Having the game constantly evolve by alternating turns adds a whole other level of strategy that just isn't present in the traditional Descent format.  As the OL in both games I much, much, much prefer the alternating strategy and find it to actually be quite a bit more challenging than all at once.  This will in turn help make the AI more challenging.  If you like playing games where you get to mindlessly blast down waves of monsters instead of having to pick your spots and adapt your game strategically turn to turn I can suggest Zombies Ate My Neighbours for the SNES.

 

What excactly do you find more challanging in alternating turn-structure?

If you play Descent like what you described, you are going to lose if your oponent is just a little bit competent. If you go all in, use all your spells just to kill the "helpless" monsters your objective probably is goingt to be out of reach after the OL's turn. What you need to do is fullfill the objectives and to do that you have to coordinate your turns, which is a much less messy task if all your figures activate before the enemies activate. (Also fatigue is a much more costly resource than strain, considering how resting works.) This way tactical and strategical things are at the center of attention and Descent's skill set is built around it (which in contrast to IA's revolves much less around combat) .

 

With IA's alternating turn structure administrative and organisational thoughts are in the center of attention, whereas tactical and strategical thoughts take a backseat. In IA you have to deal with the problem that once you kill a miniature that was blocking the door, you need enough MPs to move onto that space, or else the next imperial group will move there, leaving you with the exact same task over and over again. Or you try to kill one group before the IP can activate them, leaving the IP with less groups, which means your 4th hero will be the last to activate this turn. I don't see any tactical or strategical finesse in these things, just administrative obviousness.

 

In Descent you deal with the monster-blocking problem differently. There are specific skills like the knight's Oath of Honor which enables the knight to jump over monsters if certain conditions are met (there is a hero adjacent ot the monster, you are 3 spaces within this hero and all spots in front of the monster are occupied). You need to coordinate your whole hero-party to execute this strategy to get over this monster blockage. Alternating turns would make this impossible, because well, once both spaces in front of the monster are blocked, you can just move the monster 1 space backwards.

There are a few skills that work like that and I always thought that the Descent turn structure allowed for the much more creative skills of Descent compared to the relativly cookie-cutter skills of IA.

 

Seeing how negativly this alternating turn-structure influenced IA (no varied objectives, heavy emphasis on killing everything, damage skills being overly usefull), I really hope this doesn't affect this coop-mode the same way. The PoD coops pulled off the varied Descent quest structure so well, I would really be disapointed if this is just a "rush through the dungeon and kill everything" coop.

 

edited paragraphs

Edited by DAMaz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing which has always bothered me about Descent without an OL is that the heroes get to decide how monsters move.

 

Yes, an activation card or instruction popup might say, "The monster moves to the space containing the most heroes".
 

But what if that space is ambiguous, as in there are multiple spaces containing the most heroes. Which space is chosen?

 

What if there are 3 or 4 paths to that space. Which path is taken?

 

After a monster makes a ranged attack, say it withdraws afterwards. Where does it withdraw to?

 

These sorts of square-by-square decisions matter immensely in a tactics game. What if one of the choices is head and shoulders better than the others? What if one path moves through lava, or a path moves through a space adjacent to at Stalker trap token? What if the heroes have a thief which can Caltrops a monster if it chooses a specific path?

 

If this app is similar to the co-op, then the heroes get to choose whenever there is ambiguity, and of course, will tend to choose whatever works best for them. This shatters the illusion of an intelligent opponent, and also heavily favors certain types of heroes/classes, such as those with Blast. (monsters will stupidly clump up together all the time in co-op).

 

I personally try to compensate for this whenever I play co-op by pretending I'm the Overlord whenever I'm controlling the monsters and choosing what I consider to be the best possible move for them within the limitation of the activation cards. This does help keep the monsters from seeming stupid, but its still disorienting and less fun to be playing multiple sides at once. Its even worse when there is a disagreement among the players as to what the 'best' move for the Overlord would have been.

 

It is likely asking way too much for the app to know exactly where everything is on the map and then choose a path for monsters accordingly, so I guess this simply underscores how special Descent is in having an intelligent human opponent as your adversary. Nothing can replace this.

 

Nonetheless, the app is cool... The alternating turns I'm fairly neutral on. I like the constantly changing game state, but hero synergy suffers as a result. It will definitely support different party compositions and tactics than the traditional game - for better or worse!

 

Grey Ker for example, is far more powerful in this type of game than he is in the traditional game, as he has excellent ability to react to changing battlefield conditions.

Edited by Charmy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't read that wall of text I'm sorry but we can sit here going back and forth about what we each think is strategic or not but what I am getting from your post is that you think there is zero strategy involved in IA and it is just what?  People moving pieces around randomly?  The skills are 'cookie cutter'?  LoL, ok so show me these EXACT skills from somewhere else.

Edited by FrogTrigger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...