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Road to legend

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So I've been reading the thread for several days and decided to finally chime in... not that I have much to add or matter all that much - but I think some people are taking the new app either personally or worrying too much that it will ruin the game... and to some extent - may be missing an actual message I think FFG may be trying to send.

 

@Indalecio (Not saying you are worrying too much by the way - just using you because you talked about the Overlord role as vitally important.) - I get that for some (many?) - the Overlord role is what really sets this game apart from some of the others. Having that active antagonist - not just a run through a guided adventure/campaign story like a DnD campaign - has been what has really set Descent apart from other similar themed games.

 

For me - I own 100% of first edition and had purchased most of second edition until my group just decided we weren't going to play anymore. We got a little tired of the formula... a little tired of one person always having to be the Overlord. (Not that we didn't enjoy it now and again... we just didn't enjoy it like we used to.) And ultimately we stopped playing. It never sees the table anymore... which is a shame - because I really love the theme, game play, excellent quest/story writing, top quality components, etc. I actually ended up pushing my Descent boxes out of the way to the back of my storage area cause we never played anymore! We started to periodically play games like Galaxy Defenders here a little, Robinson Crusoe, Pandemic Legacy, and found that we really started to enjoy the cooperative experience and had several times commented on how it would be great to have a dungeon crawl campaign experience that was coop. (There are also a lot of KickStarters that are doing this... I backed Sword and Sorcery for one and look forward to getting that late fall hopefully.)

 

My fear for this game - once I saw the book expansion - was that Descent 2e was about to be closed up development wise and we would have that inevitable wait for a few years for a 3rd edition. For 1e - we got the several expansions - 2 campaign ones, and then the book at the end was ultimately the last we saw of 1e materials. We got the same for 2e here... several expansions both large and small... (a zillion LT packs and H/M packs) and then finally the book! Figured that would be the end of it.

 

The exciting part for me - with the announcement of the app - was not only that they are adding a mode I can play solo or as a coop campaign experience we were hoping for in my group - but also that the game itself isn't "dead" in the eyes of Fantasy Flight! You don't invest the needed amount of development time for something like this - only to kill off a game. It has not only re-excited a game for me I thought was done - I've already picked up the missing expansion I hadn't purchased yet (so hey, already more revenue for FFG because of the app!) and I will be picking up the app and IAP Day 1 to put my money where my mouth is in support of this type of play.

 

The App doesn't kill the game we love and know already. It only opens up a new avenue for us to play if we choose to. Will there be app only content? Of course! App only physical components? Probably not? I am very hopeful they release physical expansions that will offer both more traditional style quests/campaigns - but that will offer even more tilesets and monsters to use in the App.

I would be so excited to open up an expansion box that had a new theme, new area, new quests that we could (if we wanted) play in the traditional manner... but - that same expansion would open up a new series of quests we (or I solo) can play with the new environments etc through the app. (Heck - it doesn't even need to be in a box - could just be a cellophane wrapped pack with a book of quests and several cardboard punchout pages and I would still pick it up! As long as it expanded what I could do through traditional play and in-app game experiences I'd be all for it!)

 

Lastly, and I think very importantly, I think this app (and new cooperative mode) is really a very strong response by Fantasy Flight to a newer trend in cooperative board gaming. I picked up Sword and Sorcery off KickStarter - but there have been a dozen+ other really viable KickStarter coop dungeon experiences in the last year or are currently running. This app, that utilizes a WEALTH of existing content (a TON of stuff is already here!) and turns it into a cooperative adventure with Fantasy Flight basically saying "We got this... no need to look elsewhere." Cause really, we know the mechanics are sound. The tiles and miniatures from FFG are always top notch. We know they can make fun and engaging quests. They have proven they can make good apps... Elder Sign is very well done for example. And now we get it all from FFG with components we already have.

 

I cannot wait to get my grubby paws on the app and to start trying it out!

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At 1st, I didn't liked your attitude @Indalecio. It felt like "You can't play with Overlord? Play something else!". While it's a bit selfish, I can understand your reasons and I can appreciate your love for the game. Now I know why you said what you said and I'm ok with it. Still, you need to understand 2 things:

  1. Many players wanted a co-op dungeon crawler, FFG realized that and decided to make their own product to compete with others. But with so many stuff already released for Descent 2, they decided to add co-op as a game mode for D2e (they might release new Warhammer Quest in a traditional board form, but went with card game instead).
  2. FFG realized that it is too expensive to produce PoD co-op scenarios (printing, shipping). Let's not forget that 3 scenarios we've got used only core and 1 xpac, not much. App let's you use every released content. Yes, more sells of stuff they already made for Overlord mode (I don't like word mode here, I don't think the game changes that much, except, yes you're right, playing against less intelligent Overlord).

This leads to an app. It's cheaper and maybe, allows smarter AI Overlord? I hope so. Still I will be able to play only app-campaigns. But I will have those expansions with those books and I would like to give them a go. Incentive to play with Overlord? I hope so. Then after my group will play with full co-op, I'll make them play against me? I wouldn't have nothing against controlling some monster after being the good guy in previous sessions. But I don't like to play as a bad guy... can we pretend that Overlord is the good guy? :D

 

From what I see, I believe that FFG loves the Overlord mechanic. It might be more intuitive (casual) in Imperial Assault (Rebels vs Empire, someone wants to be Luke, someone wants to be Vader), but it adds a flavor to Descent as well. I like this mechanic (though, I never played with it, even though I own IA), but it's not that easy to get enough people to play with it. I, do NOT believe that FFG will be driven away from Overlord, they worked around it, most likely the best possible way (having AI to handle stuff, not some cards that can't even pretend that they think). So, I can't share your fear.

New expansions having campaign possible to play either way? Yes, please.

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Great post, I really think that you were able to say what I have been trying to say in a much more eloquent way.. I tend to come off as abrasive when I just so strongly disagree with someone :D  my fault, I will work on that.

 

In the mean time I loved this paragraph:

 

 

The exciting part for me - with the announcement of the app - was not only that they are adding a mode I can play solo or as a coop campaign experience we were hoping for in my group - but also that the game itself isn't "dead" in the eyes of Fantasy Flight! You don't invest the needed amount of development time for something like this - only to kill off a game. It has not only re-excited a game for me I thought was done - I've already picked up the missing expansion I hadn't purchased yet (so hey, already more revenue for FFG because of the app!) and I will be picking up the app and IAP Day 1 to put my money where my mouth is in support of this type of play.

 

Compared to what I just said:

 

 

In fact lets look at the positive affect it will have, this app will drive sales, plain and simple.  As they release more campaigns they will draw on the current expansions, forcing these new players to buy those expansions (pure speculation but tell me that doesn't make sense).  The player base grows or in many cases returns to a game they thought was unplayable in their current situation.  This will in turn produce revenue to continue expanding the app campaigns and content, as well as bringing in new physical expansions for EVERYONE on and off the app to enjoy.  New life is brought into a game that was arguably on the decline in popularity, especially with heavy competition coming from SW IA and all the hype around it.

 

I am not sure these hard core "Descenters" realize how close to extinction their game was and just how it was viewed by the outside world.. until now.  FFG wouldn't put the resources into a game that didn't need it IMO, if sales were fine and things were rosey they would just leave well enough alone.  But the fact of the matter is they are bleeding out to games like Sword and Sorcery and various others we see on kickstarter.  They recognized this and are attempting to patch the wound.  The alternative was Shut down Descent and lets ret con this with a new CoOp only game.  Instead they have found a way to keep your game alive by attracting new players with a full on Co-Op campaign.  This will keep Descent alive for years to come, you should be thanking them for the app not spitting in their face.
 

Ha and just to further drive the point home, I just took my first detailed look at S&S and really love what they are doing, love it so much in fact I am considering backing this and abandoning my plan to expand my core Descent.  See what is happening here?  This is what FFG is trying to prevent.  How much longer could Descent bleed out before it died?  We will never know those numbers, but based on this response coming so close to their latest X-Pac I would say not very long at all.

 

Lets break this down, get on the floor with me lets have a little pow wow.  Sit down, relax, lets talk real talk here.  In 1998 Origin released a patch for Ultima Online known as the "rep patch".  It essentially introduced a penalty for killing other players, something known as stat loss, meaning once you killed X amount of players your character entered a state where if it died, it would suffer a decrease in stats for each time it resurrected.  This completely changed the game and players left in droves, at least I thought.  At the time I was upset as a Player Killer myself and it changed the way I had to play the game.  It wasn't until I had matured a bit that I realized it was a necessary action to save the game.  Players were leaving the game because they were sick of being killed every time they left the protection of the town guards.  They went to safer games instead, like EverQuest.  Now I had my blinders on, I was playing the game the way that I knew how to and that I enjoyed so I didn't care about what happened to anyone else or what might benefit them.  However, had I took a good look around I would have realized that for the game to survive it was NECESSARY for them to adapt.  Other games were coming out of the wood work that promoted a safe haven for players to play how they see fit without the constant stalking and killing.  IF They didn't put the rep patch in the game would die, plain and simple.  Cut off the diseased foot to save the body. 

 

The point of all this is that I have been there with you, I have put hours and my passion into something and watch it change for what I was convinced was for worse.  They shook the foundations of the way I play the game.  However what I needed to see was the bigger picture.  Things change, games evolve, it happens out of necessity.  They weren't sitting around bored saying HEY LETS COMPLETELY CHANGE DESCENT FOR FUN, no no no, this happened in a board room before it happened at the creative level.  Take a look at that picture and I think you will all see that we are not your enemy, this app is not your enemy.

Edited by FrogTrigger

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I am not sure these hard core "Descenters" realize how close to extinction their game was and just how it was viewed by the outside world.. until now.  FFG wouldn't put the resources into a game that didn't need it IMO, if sales were fine and things were rosey they would just leave well enough alone.  But the fact of the matter is they are bleeding out to games like Sword and Sorcery and various others we see on kickstarter.  They recognized this and are attempting to patch the wound.  The alternative was Shut down Descent and lets ret con this with a new CoOp only game.  Instead they have found a way to keep your game alive by attracting new players with a full on Co-Op campaign.  This will keep Descent alive for years to come, you should be thanking them for the app not spitting in their face.

 

Truly my hope as well. First edition Descent was the first game I really went ALL IN for. I started that way with 2e but eventually lost that feeling for it. I truly hope this kicks it back in high gear for me and for others who may be in the same boat. It's really exciting to me that I will get this coop experience now (well... in a few weeks... NOT QUICK ENOUGH!) and don't have to wait months and months for some KickStarter to get to my door to get that experience. Not that I'm not excited for S&S... It's just that Descent has been the game I've loved for so many years now! I really hope I get to love it in this new mode for many more years!

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I've been looking for a more cooperative dungeon crawl for a while, but when looking at kickstarter I ignored S&S and went with "folklore: the affliction".

I thought a cooperative dungeon crawl from the designers of D2e would be perfect for me, now I don't have to wait for the kickstarter to deliver and I can just play more descent instead.

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**** you would honestly think I was paying these posters to post this stuff, it is almost like an infomercial where I made my spiel and then people are coming in and reading off a script.  Look at what this app is doing for your game guys, just great stuff all around.   Ok I made my point, then high lighted it, pointed to it, yelled SEE LOOK HERE SEE, and have beat it to death.  Time to let off and let someone else take the reigns :D

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I am one of those that has watched my Descent 2nd Edition content sit on the shelf for awhile now due to my group's focus shifting to wanting a more co-op experience, and I was typically the Overlord when we used to play. I got tired and burned out from living that lonely life. Now that automated OL is going to be an option I have a CoolStuffInc cart full of goodies I am missing (mostly just the latest Hero and Monsters, and MoB expansion with lieutenant figures). FFG is pulling me back into the fold. I am very thankful for it.

 

Regarding concerns that any new expansions would lean towards one OL play experience or another, keep this in mind: they developed this app to be backwards-compatible with (as far as we know) expansions that were never intended to be used in the way they are proposing with this app. If anything, we can expect a more streamlined integration between the two play-styles in future expansions. If they can shoehorn this play-style onto a core game and past expansions that were developed before this particular co-op concept was envisioned, they should have a much easier time creating expansions that fully support both play-styles in the future. I don't see a concern about where their business model might go with the game, leaning one way or the other. They've done the hard part already.

Edited by cdj0902

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I find it rather amusing about how the discussion here has progressed by the announcement of a digital co-op app. But I shouldn't be surprised about that:p I would like to comment on some arguments that it would be fiddly to use because it requires that you handle a device. I have a laptop hooked to a tv-screen next to my gaming table which I would use if this app were available. We already use it to look up rules clarification or put on some music. It functions a bit like those 'fireplace' dvd's, and that would be the perfect solution for this app. And while I will probably be accused of boardgame murder by some, haters gonna hate;)

 

The free app comes with 4 quests that use just the base set, so there is no need to buy a big box expansion straight away.

You can only use one lieutenant at a time, and not one from the campaign you are playing, so you might want to consider a single non-core lieutenant.

Any H&M kits will just add variety but you may want to wait on buying those, quests are limited to what type of monsters can be used and with only 4 quests a lot of H&M content may not be usable straight away.

Avoid the conversion kit as it is unlikely to be supported.

I don't think this is going to be free:p And boxed expansions are much better imo since they expand more in depth instead of horizontally.

Oh yeah, we go full rpg/fantasy music playing in the background. Not too loud that we can't hear each other, not too low that we can't get pumped up during combat!

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I should probably thank you for reading this as it means you still haven't clicked on "ignoring" my posts on these forums :)

Honestly guys click on that ignore button to get rid of the real trolls or the people advertising things, not to shut down a discussion...

 

I still don't get why you insist that FFG is supposed to make bad business-decisions and why you insist that FFG can't make an expansion that targets both traditional and coop play. Imo the idea that both game-modes compete over the same design resources is totally unfounded and lacks any rational. After all, all their content so far is balanced towards the traditional style and still viable for coop, because they balance the content via the coop app. Why would they even want to change that? Why would they decide to not balance the content via the coop-app for just this one expansion and instead make it unusable for tradtional Descent? (while throwing off the balance to all the existing content)

 

About the "bad decisioning", I do not think releasing an app for a game is a bad marketing decision, and I do not believe either that releasing a variant to a game that will appeal to many more players is a bad idea at all. If we look at this thread alone, the number of posters we have never seen posting here before seems to indicate that there will be interest far beyond the existing community, which is again hardly a bad thing.

 

Nobody (including myself) can make any real claim about the legitimity of this decision from a business perspective. However we can try to predict the impact of the publisher's decisions on the market, the existing franchise, future development and the community. Even in the improbable situation where FFG would make such a terrible decision so that it would sink a whole product line to oblivion, they could still make business out of it in some other way and turn it into profit elsewhere. After all we do see competition between games of the same publisher. So yeah, the point I´m trying to make is that we can hardly make any conclusion as for the possibility to lose business in this enterprise; let us say it is highly unlikely.

 

I´m sure every future addition to the franchise will have its use in both games (that is traditional D2E and Road to Legend). It may be that I wasn't clear about that, but there will definitely be some crossovers between the two. With this said, the lack of overlord and the addition of exploration in Road to Legend are very impactful changes, which is why I don't find unreasonable to claim that future expansions might be difficult to fully adapt to both game modes. My biggest worry is how will they code the overlord parts into the app. Say, the overlord AI holds a Web Trap, would it play it at the rightful occasion? You can certainly code a vast set of circunstances and events into the app, making the Overlord trigger the play of some effect, but it still won't be the same level of intelligence as for having a real overlord. That's the reason why I dislike the dumbed down version of the overlord RtL will present.

 

So far it seems it has the same AI as the PoD Coops, so it's not really an intelligence that reacts to anything happening, but rather has a set amount of move and attack patterns that are randomly selected. These patterns aren't necessarly restricted to the rules, but they always feel thematic, because every monster has their own. For example there are AI patterns for goblin archers that make them attack twice, or give every attack of a monstergroup +2 damage to just name a few random things. Additionally you have a time limit (turns) for each room. Once exceeded you draw peril cards in the PoDs that have additional bad effects. Those two mechanisms somehow incorperated really well what the OL cards do normally without adding fiddliness. I think now with pseudo randomizing these mechanics this can become even better. Just think about thematic peril effects tied to specific rooms, or rooms with a relatively small time window, but with less punishing peril effects.

 

One thing will always remain the same: No automated OL can be as intelligent as a human OL and it will always fall flat. However from all the AIs I played so far, Descent's Coops had ._by far_ the best AI mechanic, striking a nice balance between suprising, deducable, complex and fiddly.

 

While I obviously still massivly prefer the human antagonist, I think this is great to play from time to time.

 

So I've been reading the thread for several days and decided to finally chime in... not that I have much to add or matter all that much - but I think some people are taking the new app either personally or worrying too much that it will ruin the game... and to some extent - may be missing an actual message I think FFG may be trying to send.

 

@Indalecio (Not saying you are worrying too much by the way - just using you because you talked about the Overlord role as vitally important.) - I get that for some (many?) - the Overlord role is what really sets this game apart from some of the others. Having that active antagonist - not just a run through a guided adventure/campaign story like a DnD campaign - has been what has really set Descent apart from other similar themed games.

 

For me - I own 100% of first edition and had purchased most of second edition until my group just decided we weren't going to play anymore. We got a little tired of the formula... a little tired of one person always having to be the Overlord. (Not that we didn't enjoy it now and again... we just didn't enjoy it like we used to.) And ultimately we stopped playing. It never sees the table anymore... which is a shame - because I really love the theme, game play, excellent quest/story writing, top quality components, etc. I actually ended up pushing my Descent boxes out of the way to the back of my storage area cause we never played anymore! We started to periodically play games like Galaxy Defenders here a little, Robinson Crusoe, Pandemic Legacy, and found that we really started to enjoy the cooperative experience and had several times commented on how it would be great to have a dungeon crawl campaign experience that was coop. (There are also a lot of KickStarters that are doing this... I backed Sword and Sorcery for one and look forward to getting that late fall hopefully.)

 

My fear for this game - once I saw the book expansion - was that Descent 2e was about to be closed up development wise and we would have that inevitable wait for a few years for a 3rd edition. For 1e - we got the several expansions - 2 campaign ones, and then the book at the end was ultimately the last we saw of 1e materials. We got the same for 2e here... several expansions both large and small... (a zillion LT packs and H/M packs) and then finally the book! Figured that would be the end of it.

 

The exciting part for me - with the announcement of the app - was not only that they are adding a mode I can play solo or as a coop campaign experience we were hoping for in my group - but also that the game itself isn't "dead" in the eyes of Fantasy Flight! You don't invest the needed amount of development time for something like this - only to kill off a game. It has not only re-excited a game for me I thought was done - I've already picked up the missing expansion I hadn't purchased yet (so hey, already more revenue for FFG because of the app!) and I will be picking up the app and IAP Day 1 to put my money where my mouth is in support of this type of play.

 

The App doesn't kill the game we love and know already. It only opens up a new avenue for us to play if we choose to. Will there be app only content? Of course! App only physical components? Probably not? I am very hopeful they release physical expansions that will offer both more traditional style quests/campaigns - but that will offer even more tilesets and monsters to use in the App.

I would be so excited to open up an expansion box that had a new theme, new area, new quests that we could (if we wanted) play in the traditional manner... but - that same expansion would open up a new series of quests we (or I solo) can play with the new environments etc through the app. (Heck - it doesn't even need to be in a box - could just be a cellophane wrapped pack with a book of quests and several cardboard punchout pages and I would still pick it up! As long as it expanded what I could do through traditional play and in-app game experiences I'd be all for it!)

 

Lastly, and I think very importantly, I think this app (and new cooperative mode) is really a very strong response by Fantasy Flight to a newer trend in cooperative board gaming. I picked up Sword and Sorcery off KickStarter - but there have been a dozen+ other really viable KickStarter coop dungeon experiences in the last year or are currently running. This app, that utilizes a WEALTH of existing content (a TON of stuff is already here!) and turns it into a cooperative adventure with Fantasy Flight basically saying "We got this... no need to look elsewhere." Cause really, we know the mechanics are sound. The tiles and miniatures from FFG are always top notch. We know they can make fun and engaging quests. They have proven they can make good apps... Elder Sign is very well done for example. And now we get it all from FFG with components we already have.

 

I cannot wait to get my grubby paws on the app and to start trying it out!

 

Imo only overreacting people had the fear of Descent losing support after the book hit. They were announcing Hero&Monster packs left and right (which I think is an extremely large investement and it wouldn't make sense to release a 3rd edition before they are even finished updating all the 1st ed monsters to 2nd Ed.) and then finally announced Mists of Bilehall, which totally changes the dynamic for Descent's gameplay and funny enough, considering this topic, enhanced the OL play quite a bit and gave him a fresh new mechanism to play with. Also Descent's campaigns became better and better, so I guess most fans are eagerly awaiting every new boxed expansion. FFG even updated the core box with the new campaign book as the standard campaign, so imo it was appearent for some time that FFG isn't going to drop Descent anytime soon.

 

Also it's one of the best selling games with FFG's very own IP and a very strong part in keeping their whole Runebound universe relevant, so imo FFG has to steadily release content for this game to keep their own IP relevant.

 

Last but not least I think Sword&Sorcery gets thrown around here a little bit too positivly for my taste. It's not a bad game by any means, but still everything important in this game is so far behind Descent and Descent's PoD Coops that I happily turned away once I played it online (not to mention the maptiles, which for some reason no-one but FFG seems to really care about). I hope you still enjoy it, but I found it extremely formulaic and easy, very predictable and heavily lacking variety from what you have to do gameplay-wise. I totally missed these classic moments of: "Well this looks like a good idea, but wait maybe in this circumstance doing something different is better: I don't have to stall and fight here, let's just push through them and leave them in the dust."  Contrary to this in S&S you only think "Ok let's see which area can I dominate with a signficant number of heroes, ok let's move there" the AI consists of so few commands that it's not surprising at all and often they just run up to your dominated area, do no damage and are even easier to slay the next round. Maybe the other scenarios are better, but I have a hard time imagining that considering the area-mechanism and the pretty shallow AI decks.

Thinking back on this, I'm so glad FFG decided to release more Coops and even at a much lesser price than I expected and at a higher quality level.

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Last but not least I think Sword&Sorcery gets thrown around here a little bit too positivly for my taste. It's not a bad game by any means, but still everything important in this game is so far behind Descent and Descent's PoD Coops that I happily turned away once I played it online (not to mention the maptiles, which for some reason no-one but FFG seems to really care about). I hope you still enjoy it, but I found it extremely formulaic and easy, very predictable and heavily lacking variety from what you have to do gameplay-wise. I totally missed these classic moments of: "Well this looks like a good idea, but wait maybe in this circumstance doing something different is better: I don't have to stall and fight here, let's just push through them and leave them in the dust."  Contrary to this in S&S you only think "Ok let's see which area can I dominate with a signficant number of heroes, ok let's move there" the AI consists of so few commands that it's not surprising at all and often they just run up to your dominated area, do no damage and are even easier to slay the next round. Maybe the other scenarios are better, but I have a hard time imagining that considering the area-mechanism and the pretty shallow AI decks.

Thinking back on this, I'm so glad FFG decided to release more Coops and even at a much lesser price than I expected and at a higher quality level.

 

 

Are we talking about the same Sword & Sorcery here? ;) I'm referring to the one that is due out in "October..." The one that was on KickStarter JUST a few months back... A game where we have only seen a very small introductory quest with only a couple monsters and not even the fully available (or finished) AI? Hardly seems we have seen enough to make a judgement of any kind you are making.

 

Let's let the ink dry on the components before we jump to conclusions on the quality of play the game/AI will have - WHEN it is final and out we can make such statements. In fact - it's pretty hard to compare S&S that isn't out against the AI in the Descent app - which... right, isn't out.

 

Let's reserve final judgement until we have actual released products from both companies. ;)

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Last but not least I think Sword&Sorcery gets thrown around here a little bit too positivly for my taste. It's not a bad game by any means, but still everything important in this game is so far behind Descent and Descent's PoD Coops that I happily turned away once I played it online (not to mention the maptiles, which for some reason no-one but FFG seems to really care about). I hope you still enjoy it, but I found it extremely formulaic and easy, very predictable and heavily lacking variety from what you have to do gameplay-wise. I totally missed these classic moments of: "Well this looks like a good idea, but wait maybe in this circumstance doing something different is better: I don't have to stall and fight here, let's just push through them and leave them in the dust."  Contrary to this in S&S you only think "Ok let's see which area can I dominate with a signficant number of heroes, ok let's move there" the AI consists of so few commands that it's not surprising at all and often they just run up to your dominated area, do no damage and are even easier to slay the next round. Maybe the other scenarios are better, but I have a hard time imagining that considering the area-mechanism and the pretty shallow AI decks.

Thinking back on this, I'm so glad FFG decided to release more Coops and even at a much lesser price than I expected and at a higher quality level.

 

 

Are we talking about the same Sword & Sorcery here? ;) I'm referring to the one that is due out in "October..." The one that was on KickStarter JUST a few months back... A game where we have only seen a very small introductory quest with only a couple monsters and not even the fully available (or finished) AI? Hardly seems we have seen enough to make a judgement of any kind you are making.

 

Let's let the ink dry on the components before we jump to conclusions on the quality of play the game/AI will have - WHEN it is final and out we can make such statements. In fact - it's pretty hard to compare S&S that isn't out against the AI in the Descent app - which... right, isn't out.

 

Let's reserve final judgement until we have actual released products from both companies. ;)

 

 

 

Well, you can play the demo online .... https://beta.tabletopia.com/play/sword-and-sorcery-demo/;]

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Last but not least I think Sword&Sorcery gets thrown around here a little bit too positivly for my taste. It's not a bad game by any means, but still everything important in this game is so far behind Descent and Descent's PoD Coops that I happily turned away once I played it online (not to mention the maptiles, which for some reason no-one but FFG seems to really care about). I hope you still enjoy it, but I found it extremely formulaic and easy, very predictable and heavily lacking variety from what you have to do gameplay-wise. I totally missed these classic moments of: "Well this looks like a good idea, but wait maybe in this circumstance doing something different is better: I don't have to stall and fight here, let's just push through them and leave them in the dust."  Contrary to this in S&S you only think "Ok let's see which area can I dominate with a signficant number of heroes, ok let's move there" the AI consists of so few commands that it's not surprising at all and often they just run up to your dominated area, do no damage and are even easier to slay the next round. Maybe the other scenarios are better, but I have a hard time imagining that considering the area-mechanism and the pretty shallow AI decks.

Thinking back on this, I'm so glad FFG decided to release more Coops and even at a much lesser price than I expected and at a higher quality level.

 

 

Are we talking about the same Sword & Sorcery here? ;) I'm referring to the one that is due out in "October..." The one that was on KickStarter JUST a few months back... A game where we have only seen a very small introductory quest with only a couple monsters and not even the fully available (or finished) AI? Hardly seems we have seen enough to make a judgement of any kind you are making.

 

Let's let the ink dry on the components before we jump to conclusions on the quality of play the game/AI will have - WHEN it is final and out we can make such statements. In fact - it's pretty hard to compare S&S that isn't out against the AI in the Descent app - which... right, isn't out.

 

Let's reserve final judgement until we have actual released products from both companies. ;)

 

 

 

Well, you can play the demo online .... https://beta.tabletopia.com/play/sword-and-sorcery-demo/;]

 

 

 

Yeah - totally aware. :)

 

But again - that demo is a single introductory mission - isn't final - and again, shows only a limited selection of enemies, their AI, etc.

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I just wanted to say as a new player I bought LoR today because of this app.

 

Ha! I just bought MoB along with the lieutenants and the 4 H/M packs I was behind on, all in anticipation of this app. Can't wait to get Descent back on the table.

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Fortunately I'm only missing a couple of Lts... It's the monster hero packs I'm behind on...

 

I'm kind of waiting on the app itself to see if the monsters can be used via the conversion kit - I imagine I could just click all the monster hero packs and maybe be OK? I have all the card and figures from the kit and 1e figs... Just have to see what comes in the app!

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Yes there is still a lot of speculation how this will work, but I imagine that you would tell the App what Monster packs you have and then it would include those in the campaign.  Again, all speculation though.. but I don't see how else they incorporate them?

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Yes there is still a lot of speculation how this will work, but I imagine that you would tell the App what Monster packs you have and then it would include those in the campaign.  Again, all speculation though.. but I don't see how else they incorporate them?

 

Yeah - I'm pretty sure that's the case - that you simply click all the expansions, LT packs, and HM packs that you own... what I didn't see was anything that would indicate you could check "conversion kit" as an option. My assumption is that we will not have this as an option.

 

I have several kits - just not sure yet that I want to buy them all. :)

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Yes there is still a lot of speculation how this will work, but I imagine that you would tell the App what Monster packs you have and then it would include those in the campaign.  Again, all speculation though.. but I don't see how else they incorporate them?

 

Yeah - I'm pretty sure that's the case - that you simply click all the expansions, LT packs, and HM packs that you own... what I didn't see was anything that would indicate you could check "conversion kit" as an option. My assumption is that we will not have this as an option.

 

I have several kits - just not sure yet that I want to buy them all. :)

 

 

I think it would kind of work. Just pay attention to the 1 or 2 new monsters FFG released with H/M packs so far.

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Yes there is still a lot of speculation how this will work, but I imagine that you would tell the App what Monster packs you have and then it would include those in the campaign.  Again, all speculation though.. but I don't see how else they incorporate them?

 

Yeah - I'm pretty sure that's the case - that you simply click all the expansions, LT packs, and HM packs that you own... what I didn't see was anything that would indicate you could check "conversion kit" as an option. My assumption is that we will not have this as an option.

 

I have several kits - just not sure yet that I want to buy them all. :)

 

 

I think it would kind of work. Just pay attention to the 1 or 2 new monsters FFG released with H/M packs so far.

 

 

OH! Which packs are those? I haven't been paying attention for a while now since we stopped playing. I best take a peek at getting those at least!

 

EDIT - looks like Shards of Everdark and Treaty of Champions

Edited by SoylentGreen

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I just wanted to say as a new player I bought LoR today because of this app.

 

Ha! I just bought MoB along with the lieutenants and the 4 H/M packs I was behind on, all in anticipation of this app. Can't wait to get Descent back on the table.

 

Ya I've been going a little crazy buying the lieutenants. I'm playing Heirs of Blood  with a friend he's the OL and I'm running 3 chars. I just started Forgotten Souls  last night. oh and I paid $200 to get my minis painted. Maybe it's good that some is OoP. Even the sleeves are out of stock.

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Im pretty excited for this app! I tried and tried to get into decent 2nd edition, but with only 2 players and 1 having to be the OL we just didnt really like it much. Now the AI can be the overlord this suits us much better as we can both be heroes! Cant wait to try this!

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