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Volkren

Road to legend

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+1 to the group who are excited for this to play with loved ones.  Some of us are really busy in real life, I sometimes envy the people who can get together once a week with a dedicated group, but I have to imagine that is only temporary as once you get married, have kids get a career etc.. things just get way to busy for that.

 

Between all the activities my family has be it hockey, gymnastics, swimming lessons, whatever.. paired with full time careers and trying to coordinate with friends who are in similar situations, it is just so dang tough to get together let alone finish a multi quest campaign.  Like seriously, when was the last time anyone with young kids had a 4 hour un interrupted period? Lol. Amirite? Even when they are sleeping there is always something.  This will allow me to sit down with my wife or son and play through a campaign instead of 1v1, or even do it solo without having to play against myself.  This is a great option for those of us who have a lot going on in their life.

 

I will still use the regular Overlord campaign to play against a group when I have the chance or when my wife and son want to team up against me, and sometimes my daughter will even join in for that.  No one is saying that will be abandoned, that option still exists and will be used.  The great part about this is that there is now ANOTHER option for those of us who can't get that dedicated group together once a month.  So excited for this, FFG really is cutting edge when it comes to the table top industry.

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I'll throw in my commentary on the App from a new Descent player (picked up my Core copy last week).  I'm excited by having this as an option, and in the long run, honestly believe it will allow me to play more of the game and as a result, buy more of the expansions.  Now the question - why?

 

Even though I live in a Metro that supports Board Games & Miniatures, my social network & ability to get out is limited (relocated & 4 kids between 17-2).  As a result, on a M-F night, I'm lucky to get home, eat dinner & get the little kids settled by 8.  Whereas my wife is supportive of my games & miniatures (Warmachine, Armada & now heading towards Kings of War), its hard to engage her or the teenagers in anything of length from a game perspective.  She likes Descent from concept & seeing how its played, but I've yet to get to crack the game open and run through a scenario (with luck, this weekend).

 

For me though, reading the quest guides, how it plays, etc. I'm excited.  I want to run a four character campaign through Heirs of Blood and see how it all falls out.  When I'm done, I want to set it up, take the other four characters and do the same.  Rinse & repeat.  How am I going to get my wife to sit down and go through one campaign?  I'd be lucky to get this done in the next 12 months knowing my history.  With the app running as Overlord though, it will enable me to sit down at the table, set it up and run the campaign solo.  I also think this will draw my wife into it and potentially have her more engaged, as well as, possibly, the teenagers.  Better yet, me learning the overlord mechanics by seeing the app work, will allow me to run that against them while they get to build out their heros.  So what if a family campaign takes a year then?  If the app is saving the progress, knows the cards we have on each hero & truly tracks the campaign, it will make tracking and running 1 or more campaigns much, much easier in the long run.

 

I'm hopeful the satisfaction this brings for me is to allow me to experience D2E, want to buy more expansions & to enjoy additional campaigns.  And as "digital" campaigns can force the need for more maps, tiles & monsters, would help encourage me to purchase more expansions.  Truly think this can be a great addition.
 

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FFG should release a game based on Descent to play in video games or pcs, and forget the idea about this app.

There are tactical grid based video games out there, and very good ones! The Fire Emblem series for Gameboy Advance, Gamecube, Wii, Nintendo 3ds, and I bet there will be a WiiU game. There is also the Final Fantasy Tactics Advance series for Gameboy and Nintendo DS. Both are excellent RPG's with a great depth in gameplay. When looking for a boardgame dungeon crawler I took my likings in these games into consideration:)

 

Yeah, for sure. Never played any of those you mentioned, but I know them, and shining force (genesis) was my first expiration to create my own board game. I just don't like the idea of mixing things, but I do like the idea for an automated overlord (like on my own board game)

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Which is kind of why I'm wondering why we even need an app like this. How come these campaigns can't just be printed out on boards or paper? Why can't Road to Legend itself be a unique Descent expansion that you buy physically? 

 

Development of the app has numerous advantages over the printed, physical co-op expansions (in no particular order:

 

1) Setup/cleanup time

2) Ease of pause/resume

3) avoid costs of printing cards for FFG

4) avoid need to print rules for customers

5) avoid shipping costs for everyone

6) hidden information for those who want the dungeon exploration feel

7) incorporation of different monsters/tiles based on what expansions you have to work with

 

None of the opinions I have about the app regarding the lack of human OL are any different for the printed co-op expansions. If Co-op is the direction FFG wants to go with Descent, this companion app looks like a fantastic way to accomplish that. It should really streamline the process and provide a lot of interesting content. 

 

That is a curious quote Zaltyre since I can't remember saying something like that:p At least not in the quote of 17 march 02:33 you are referring too. Maybe my memory is starting to slip away (disturbingly early that is) but that particular post is also unedited.

 

Although I do enjoy the printed co-op expansions. Even if I have to print the encounter guide myself. There is nothing as good as anxiously drawing a card, in fear of what will come to your heroes:)

But, I must say that I agree with your arguments about the pro's of such an app. The fact that such an adventure can be constantly randomised and modified by adding new content is the most prominent thing the PoD co-ops were lacking. I also see applications of the quest vault where people can easily download other people's quests.

 

Edit: Zaltyre was referring to a post made by Omnislash024.

Edited by Ceasarsalad101

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Well I realize some of the later comments are addressed to me and my criticism, and I don't want anybody to believe that I´m not giving these comments credit even if I don't respond to each of them individually. I don't think I have much to add anyway, and the intention is not to gangrene this thread (although it's defniitely been impregnated with my evil presence, ha!).

 

At the end of the day players are free to do whatever they want with their game. There is no code of conduct in gaming in terms of deciding what people should or shouldn't do as long as they´re having fun. You and your friends can play Descent dressed up like Wookies, play the "Alone" version of Descent (one hero, 4 overlords), or even design a conversion kit for your Hello Kitty figures (not a joke, did that for another game).

 

So yeah, we´re not trying to stop a moving train here, reality is a ***** and you have to adapt or die. So I hope many players will find this app useful. I´m sure it will be well-designed and appealing to many. As an app as such (with no consideration to its application), I can see myself having fun looking at the options. Just not during our game sessions. Human interactions are not prohibited by the sole present of the app, but IT'S STILL NOT THE SAME THING. That's the last time I say this.

 

I will still be around and play as much Descent as I do today, for the joy and despair of all :)

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I’ve been playing Descent for at least 5 years now. I led multiple RtL campaigns in D1E and have led several campaigns for D2E. I finally got to play a hero character around year 4 because one of the other players wanted to try being an Overlord. This is a group of 5 people that I have consistently played with the whole time. Playing as a hero was very fun and a nice break from playing the Overlord. In that sense the app wouldn’t make much difference other than as a reference tool. We’ve used the iPad tablet to query references and track progress, but that’s it so far.

 

On the other hand my wife and I rarely play because we’d rather be on the same team than play me vs. her. Unfortunately prior to the co-op there was no option to do so. The co-op missions were fun but short. So I plan to use the campaign app so she and I can play the co-op. And for the other group with 5 of us I will not use it to represent the overlord.

 

And I feel nothing is taken from the game that way. Rather, I feel that the game has been expanded and added onto. There are more ways for me to play Descent with other people and different groups of people. It seems pretty awesome to me.

 

I think it’s pretty ridiculous to get all up in arms because an app is being released to support a game. Emphasis on “support” as in not “replace.” At the end of the day if you don’t like the app then put your big boy pants on, get over the fact that it exists and don’t use it.

Edited by Electris

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While some people seem enthusiastic that this app will make Descent playable for those with less time to spare, this app won't shorten the game length or required time commitment.

It just allows for more intelligent AI in co-op play.

It doesn't even reduce the minimum number of required players to less than 2, unless you play solo. It only takes the overlord role out of groups that don't like the overlord role.

I just keep repeating this point because electronic component does not equate to a game easier to hit the table. I am looking forward to this app because the overlord role simply is not always the most enjoyed role.

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This looks great, and has me looking forward to playing.

This app will do a few things - first it will allow you to use your existing game and expansions with all new campaigns, second it will generate income and interest in what is an older game, greatly boosting the shelf life and the chance of more boxed expansions, and although it isn't mentioned, it could potentially eventually allow a way for player generated content to be delivered to other players in a whole new way. 

 

I guess it is also their attempt to counter the new co-op dungeon crawlers that are starting to appear such as Sword and Sorcery.

 

Bravo FF, good move!

 

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Thanks for your input in general, I agree with a lot of what you said, but I´ll react to some of your input, as follows.

I did feel negative about the co-ops too, although not for the same reasons. My issue with the co-ops is mainly that they are one-offs and have extremely limited content. I have other games in direct competition with them, and in the current state of things the co-ops don't live up to the same level of enjoyment I can get by playing these other games.

Regarding the app again, let's say that I am skeptical for two main reasons:

1- The way it is promoted. Implications on FFG's focus for the product line, and impact on the community.

2- It's an app on a tablet. Big no for me.

There is actually a third reason which is:

3- Introduction of a new game mode, for the implications it has on the product line as originally designed.

However I´ll admit this point is a matter of taste. Some players like full co-ops, some players clearly stated the app would allow themto play the game more often, so there is no shadow of doubt the app could be good for a % of these players and I´ll not try to dimiss that fact. If we can get more players to play the game WITHOUT deteriorating the quality of the original product (e.g. still release content and have an active/passionate community) then it's all good for us and FFG.

 

 

I am more concerned than you are. They need resources to publish these app-friendly quests, they will also need people maintaining the tool (not only engineers) and answer questions. It's a % of the focus on the original Descent that is being moved to this new game mode.

I also think releasing a game involving an app is more than releasing a new game mode. It's a statement made by FFG, a direction they are taking. If the app is popular, which I expect it to become, I don't see why FFG would find problematic to start releasing purely digital content, like tiles, monsters, or heroes. They might not need to release regular expansions anymore. This is where it starts to hurt the original game and its community. I would feel a lot more confortable if the app was promoted as a tool based on the physical game contents only, but the possibility for this kind of evolution can unfortunateley not be ruled out.

 

I don't see what's appealing about this compared to drawing a card showing the tiles setup, or figuring out a monster's action by going through its AI action card. Like you said, the app is fancy, but that's really all I see here.

Having a proper quest book feels way more immersive than scrolling on a screen to find the travel step or whatever. If it was Star Wars, then the app would make much more sense. Android, XCOM etc, these are good immersive worlds to condense on an app. But Runebound?

 

Also the "no exploration" and so on controversies aren't real controversies anymore, because well you can still play Descent with exploration or without, with OL or without.

This is absolutely a way to look at it. I only regret that the game loses some of its identity by making it that interchangeable.

- Yeah we play Descent every week.

- Oh the game with the app?

- No we´re playing the original game.

- Ah the version without the fancy app, without exploration and with the dude killing all your joy?

- Yeah that's it.

- You like to hurt yourself don't you?

- [...]

I mean, it sorts of make us look bad in comparison.

 

Because the game has its own identity?

Because a decision was made as for how to make the game unique compared to the 100s of dungeon crawler around? Go to KS, there´s one there almost every week insipired by the greatest dungeon crawlers around, they´re ALL the same without exception.

Because D1E was taking ages to play and had its problems?

Because streamlining D1E helped FFG to get more people to play the game and removing some fat off an already complex game?

Because FFG wanted to promote strategic decisions ahead of reaction to exploration?

Because the role of the Overlord and the design around that role is one of the strongest piece of design in the board gaming industry? The Overlord (or bad guy) is generally making brainless decisions, or has very limited impact on the game overall. Descent brings life to that role.

Because board gaming in essence is a social experience? Why would solo-mode get any form of priority? I get that not everybody is able to find a playgroup, I feel very sorry for these persons, but at the end of the day it's kind of incompatible with the very idea of a board gaming experience?

 

OK this is a valid point and something I´ve also be wondering about. However the reason is simple, far from everybody here own all the expansions, making campaigns based on several expansions difficult to even use.

But yeah that was my biggest complaint about the co-op expansions.

 

At the same time i would love to play more D than i actually do, but to gather everyone once a week is quite an achievement. So when being less that 3 i wouldn't mind going for the app, particularly when the other player is more or less a newbie to the game.

I play with three people including myself most of the time, two heroes per hero player and myself as the overlord. You don't need to be 5 players to enjoy Descent (although you need 4 heroes in my opinion).

I don't buy the "more suited to kids/newbies" argument either. As I´ve said earlier you´re not forced to play cutthroat if you don't want to. The Overlord role is actually a great help in that sense, because he/she can help the heroes deciding over a course of action. he can participate in these debates, help the heroes find out what's possible or not, etc. When playing with newbies you can help them making informed decisions. You can hold a card in your hand because you want your opposition to feel like they´re achieving something, if winning is not the priority.

The app does nothing in that regards. It doesn't help you to decide how to play, it doesn't help you making decisions, it doesn't back track if you made a mistake that everybody would find reasonable to replay etc.

 

I see a lot of negative reaction here. It puzzles me as to why. Do people think this means FFG will discontinue regular updates, expansions, etc. In favor of digital content delivery? They would be killing their cash cow who's popularity has afforded them the opportunity to try something like this.

I see it as pretty simple... if you have a regular gaming group and are happy with what is offered by FFG. Don't use it. Don't worry about it. Why should you? Just don't use it. FFG is not going to stop producing physical content. If that stops then there is no platform for the digital content.

But I would argue that there are probably more consumers of Descent who are not happy with the amount of time or opportunity they have to play this great game than consumers that do. I am definitely one of those and I know there are more. Way more in my boat. Most people with families simply don't have time to game in a group. So any time that is available is usually spur of the moment and that doesn't mix well with getting a group together. FFG is seeing the trend that the market is taking. There are more people interested in our hobby now than ever but not everyone has the same allocations of available time that the old guard does. FFG is simply looking for ways to generate more enjoyment for consumers of one of their AAA brands. I hope they do the same thing for Imperial Assault!

I fail to see how this app will make the game go faster or smoother. It's not even the intent? While it does technically replaces one player (the overlord), you do realize running him by the app will seriously dumb down the AI and make the game a lot more flat.

 

 

I wouldn't be so pessimistic about that development, although I pretty much understand your feelings. For me Descent has also become a big monetary and emotional investment and I too don't want to see it turn into a videogame, because I cherish the social aspect of boardgames.

 

Yet I just don't agree with your worrying views from a pure logical standpoint.

 

1.) "They need resources to publish these app-friendly quests, they will also need people maintaining the tool (not only engineers) and answer questions. It's a % of the focus on the original Descent that is being moved to this new game mode."

 

-) I don't think they need more resources to develop the app-coop-quests than to develop the PoD Coop quests, if anything less balancing is involved because basically every monster has it's own AI deck unlike one deck for 4 monsters. Since the game pretty much shares the rules with the normal Descent and the PoD-Coops, there aren't many grey areas that only aply to the app.

Like I said if they really moved a % of focus from the original game to the app, this has already happened with the PoD-coops. Additionally I don't think that that's how it works. If Descent moves more units/if the app is successfull, FFG will much rather acquire more resources than shift its resources to please a larger community. Also there is really not one piece of original artwork (minus the cover) in the whole app (even the map is from Runebound 3rd edition), so they only needed programmers (who obviously don't work on Descent normally) and the Coop-content developers, who worked on the PoDs before who effectivly create one mini quest for each room.

 

 

2.) "I also think releasing a game involving an app is more than releasing a new game mode. It's a statement made by FFG, a direction they are taking. If the app is popular, which I expect it to become, I don't see why FFG would find problematic to start releasing purely digital content, like tiles, monsters, or heroes."

 

-) I wouldn't overanalyze this. FFG has developed a Battlelore app and it didn't stop them from releasing phyiscal content and it most certainly didn't make them release purely digital stuff at the expense of physical content. There are a few reasons why FFG wouldn't release purely digital content. Firstly wether physical or digital content, the development of this content (artwork, playtesting, ideas) stays the same, which makes it unreasonable to not sell them to the majority of the Descent community (I don't know if this would even be profitable as a digital exclusive). Secondly the game isn't played on the app. So what if they release digital tiles/monsters/heroes, are you supposed to print them out to be able to use them? And there is a good reason why. If this was similar to the Battlelore app, it only can become popular, because of the fans of the physical game that despite all the avialable apps and videogames invested heavily in physical board games. Yet again this isn't like the Battlelore-app, but this whole app is a fancy questbook and production wise not even that. Heirs of Blood had more original artwork and content than this app. Ask yourself if it would make sense if Heirs of Blood would have featured new map tiles that are just printed in the rulebook, or new heroes... See it makes no sense.

 

 

3.) "They might not need to release regular expansions anymore. ... I would feel a lot more confortable if the app was promoted as a tool based on the physical game contents only, but the possibility for this kind of evolution can unfortunateley not be ruled out."

-) That's not what FFG has been doing for the last years. Look at Imperial Assault. Although FFG is pushing the skirmish mode of this game, they continously release small and big box campaign expansions and refuse to offer printed maps or allow not-genuine-physical-FFG components in tournament play, to the effect that Skirmish-players need to buy the core-box, and the campaign expansions multiple times to get THE CARDS they need to play or more miniatures of the same group. They also have to pay for all the physical map-tiles over and over again, they will never touch. If anything FFG will always require you to buy the campaign expansions to use new content for a different game-mode or make products that can also be used by the traditional game mode (like the villain and allies packs), not the other way around.

Also this app is promoted as a tool based on the physical game contents only. The name companion app makes this very clear. It's a companion to the physical game. It's not standalone, it's not called Digital coop Descent or even just Coop Descent, no it's called companion app, not even suggesting it could stand on it's own.

 

 

4.) "I don't see what's appealing about this compared to drawing a card showing the tiles setup, or figuring out a monster's action by going through its AI action card. Like you said, the app is fancy, but that's really all I see here.

Having a proper quest book feels way more immersive than scrolling on a screen to find the travel step or whatever. If it was Star Wars, then the app would make much more sense. Android, XCOM etc, these are good immersive worlds to condense on an app. But Runebound?"

-) The problem with a questbook that features more than 40 different mini-quests and a session that makes you build ~8 random mini-quests out of these 40 is that it's extremely fiddly. Even the 2-3 A4 sides of the PoD for ~12 miniquests were pushing it imo. The app allows them include much more mini-quests and cutting the fiddliness of the whole thing.

So I have to strongly disagree with you on that. Skimming through ~10 pages of mini-quests until you find the right one, while half spoiling every possible mini-quest that will possibly come up in the whole campaign feels way less immersive than pressing a button on a screen and being presented with the next mini-quest setup within seconds.

 

I will end this reply on a iteration of your dialogue.

 

- Yeah we play Descent every week.

- Oh the game with the app?

- No we´re playing the original game.

- Ah the version with all the fancy bad guy stuff, that trades exploration with truly strategic and tactical planning that in the end gets crushed by the Overlord killing all your joy?

- Yeah, only that we crush all the OL's fancy tactics and strategies in the end, by outsmarting and decieving him.

- You like to play competitive games, don't you?

-  No it's not purely competitive, the heroes have to work together and together come up with a way to stand victorious against very vicious monsters that aren't hard to beat, because they recieve strong buffs randomly, but because they behave smart and strategically.

- Sounds interesting. I think I gotta try this out some time with my group if we want more challange than the app.

I mean, it sorts of make us look like people who take games very serious and put a lot of energy into it... and I don't know if that's a bad thing, for me at least it isn't.

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FFG, this is a fantastic bit of creativity. I hope to utilise it in my future games of Descent. I also hope to use something like it for a number of other FFG games I own (SW:IA, MoM, Android, etc).

 

I buy these games because I like them, some times before I even get a chance to play them, and often before anyone else I know even knows they exist. This app should ONLY be seen as a positive, it will have a greater positive influence on small game groups, and little to none for the larger more active game groups. Even if they made a totally electronic version of Descent (YES PLEASE) it would not replace my "cardboard" version of the game because I like painting AND playing it as it currently exists.

 

To those who wish to ponder the negatives of such a product I wish to say, as you have had your say...Stop trying to stamp-out creativity, stop trying to take away from others the things they want (before they are even released), stop trying to restrict and reduce what is available to people simply because YOU don't want it, or YOU fail to see value in it. You have the right and the responsibility to control your own children, to influence their creativity and restrict the way they think. BUT you aren't required to so for the rest of civilisation. After-all, what would you be saving us from in this case? And if you are going to attempt to answer that question, please refrain from trying to scare us with stories of Boogie-men, that don't yet exist, waiting for us in the shadows of an uncertain future.

 

OK. Thats me done. Keep up the good work FFG.

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I've been wanting to try out Descent for quite some time but since my Imperial Assault has been gathering dust as I can't get a group together to play it I didn't dare invest in this yet.  With this App I'm ready to give it a shot playing either solo or possibly getting my wife and/or daughter to play.

 

I know there are still more details about the App to find out, but if I was going place an order for the Base game and a couple Expansions which Expansion would you recommend that would be best suited to this App?

 

Thanks.

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Despite everything, I am intrigued and will definitely be trying it out. Hopefully it works on my phone, but I kind of doubt it. I don't really have a tablet so there's that. 

Edited by Omnislash024

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The free app comes with 4 quests that use just the base set, so there is no need to buy a big box expansion straight away.

You can only use one lieutenant at a time, and not one from the campaign you are playing, so you might want to consider a single non-core lieutenant.

Any H&M kits will just add variety but you may want to wait on buying those, quests are limited to what type of monsters can be used and with only 4 quests a lot of H&M content may not be usable straight away.

Avoid the conversion kit as it is unlikely to be supported.

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I find it rather amusing about how the discussion here has progressed by the announcement of a digital co-op app. But I shouldn't be surprised about that:p I would like to comment on some arguments that it would be fiddly to use because it requires that you handle a device. I have a laptop hooked to a tv-screen next to my gaming table which I would use if this app were available. We already use it to look up rules clarification or put on some music. It functions a bit like those 'fireplace' dvd's, and that would be the perfect solution for this app. And while I will probably be accused of boardgame murder by some, haters gonna hate;)

 

The free app comes with 4 quests that use just the base set, so there is no need to buy a big box expansion straight away.

You can only use one lieutenant at a time, and not one from the campaign you are playing, so you might want to consider a single non-core lieutenant.

Any H&M kits will just add variety but you may want to wait on buying those, quests are limited to what type of monsters can be used and with only 4 quests a lot of H&M content may not be usable straight away.

Avoid the conversion kit as it is unlikely to be supported.

I don't think this is going to be free:p And boxed expansions are much better imo since they expand more in depth instead of horizontally.

Edited by Ceasarsalad101

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It is a free app, that's been confirmed, but it will have in app purchases.

I was replying to someone who asked what to buy for when the app was released, which is why I said to avoid the boxed expansions (even though they are great value).

The first IAP is a huge campaign, once that is released is when I would consider buying more.

It's very interesting that FFG describe this as "huge" instead of "full length".

Given that the original RTL was the most epic descent campaign ever created we may be getting the most in-depth campaign system for d2e yet.

The terminology used also suggests an IA style of story + side quests.

Which makes sense because the story quests could be tied to a specific set of expansions but the side missions could make use of your whole collection.

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I've been wanting to try out Descent for quite some time but since my Imperial Assault has been gathering dust as I can't get a group together to play it I didn't dare invest in this yet.  With this App I'm ready to give it a shot playing either solo or possibly getting my wife and/or daughter to play.

 

I know there are still more details about the App to find out, but if I was going place an order for the Base game and a couple Expansions which Expansion would you recommend that would be best suited to this App?

 

Thanks.

 

I also think you are fine with the base game for now. Basically I think expanding hero classes will grant you the most replay value and they can be found in the small and big box expansions. As the base game comes with 8 hero-classes, you won't run out of hero classes that fast, but I don't like all of the base game classes.

 

As for expansions I really like Shadow of Nerekhall as I really like all the 4 monstergroups and it comes with 4 very cool new hero classes and heroes. I also think the heroes and hero-classes in Liar of the Wyrm are much fun and the monstergroups are kind of unique, Manor of Ravens has very cool monstergroups, but I think the classes are not the most intriguing, Labyrinth of Ruins has a few nice heroes and hero-classes, good to ok monsters, but the huge incentive for this expansion is a new OL deck you can't use with the app. As a whole I would place Labyrinth of Ruins and Trollfens at the bottom of the list and Shadow of Nerekhall and Liar of the Wyrm on top.

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