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Reiver

The fixes that didn't

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There's a lot of griping about how Integrated Astromech was meant to be the x-wing 'fix', but failed. While I only partially agree*, it's left me wondering - have they ever previously released intended 'fixes' that straight up didn't work out?

I'm not talking about ships that are currently out of fashion like the A-wing, which is still decent just wrong-tool-for-the-job at the moment, or ships that were fixed-whoops-countered (hi there fat Han), but the true, promised-savior cards that ended up 'released, found dead on arrival'.

The first and most egregious I can think of is munitions failsafe - intended to help ordinance, but did next to nothing and now is even more soundly laughed out of the room by being in the same slot as the second fix, which is outright in the same slot. ;)

Are there any others?

*I feel it's more because TLTs are currently stealing their thunder in the same wave they were released (whoops) not helped by a shortage of IA-rookie-friendly 1pt astromechs, than inherent failings in the new platform. Just sayin'; let's not get distracted on this point please...

Edited by Reiver

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Targeting Computer? Only really helped TIEs and Interceptors. Overshadowed by Predator for +1pts and saves an action. Slot spot easily taken up by TIE Mk.II or Autothrusters in the case of the Interceptors.

Was it meant to be 'fixing' anything though? I had the impression it was more meant to just give another upgrade option in the pack (and is a point too much, IMO, but I sympathise with caution on such ubiquitously available upgrades).

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There's a lot of griping about how Integrated Astromech was meant to be the x-wing 'fix', but failed. 

They didn't. X-wing was good and now it borderlines B-wing in jousting capability.

Even Outperforming ANYTHING in Epic.

 

It's just meta being one-sided Acewing. It has nothing to do with fixes for T-65

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Targeting Computer? Only really helped TIEs and Interceptors. Overshadowed by Predator for +1pts and saves an action. Slot spot easily taken up by TIE Mk.II or Autothrusters in the case of the Interceptors.

Was it meant to be 'fixing' anything though? I had the impression it was more meant to just give another upgrade option in the pack (and is a point too much, IMO, but I sympathise with caution on such ubiquitously available upgrades).

Definitely intended as a fix.

At the time, Interceptors were ​incredibly weak. FFG thought that this would help the ship be more of the Glass Cannon they intended, and is a large part of the reason why they were given a second Modification slot.

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Targeting Computer? Only really helped TIEs and Interceptors. Overshadowed by Predator for +1pts and saves an action. Slot spot easily taken up by TIE Mk.II or Autothrusters in the case of the Interceptors.

Was it meant to be 'fixing' anything though? I had the impression it was more meant to just give another upgrade option in the pack (and is a point too much, IMO, but I sympathise with caution on such ubiquitously available upgrades).

Definitely intended as a fix.

At the time, Interceptors were ​incredibly weak. FFG thought that this would help the ship be more of the Glass Cannon they intended, and is a large part of the reason why they were given a second Modification slot.

Boy howdy, I guess they hadn't gotten the memo on aggressive pricing yet huh?

Okay, that's a great example then. (I guess it's inevitable that the intended 'fixes' end up not looking much like one; if they did they'd have worked!)

Edited by Reiver

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I'm seeing Targeting Computer on Fel and other Interceptors more and more; in place of the Stealth Device (but still packing Autothrusters).  The argument is that if you fly your Interceptors right, you shouldn't have to rely on extra evades as you shouldn't be being shot at in the first place.  I.E.  Fly better, avoid being shot, and maximise your offensive output with the use of the TC.

Edited by Dr Zoidberg

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Integrated astromech for sure imo. It's nice and all,, but it sure isn't double shot defender, atc, free accuracy corrector, or -2 points with free evades. Also chardan refit same boat, it's nice but you still only have 2 red dice...

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There's a lot of griping about how Integrated Astromech was meant to be the x-wing 'fix', but failed. 

They didn't. X-wing was good and now it borderlines B-wing in jousting capability.

Even Outperforming ANYTHING in Epic.

 

It's just meta being one-sided Acewing. It has nothing to do with fixes for T-65

 

I don't even know where to start with this. If it was good, then why is it ONLY NOW just below B-Wings in jousting efficiency? And, as a second point to add on to that, where in the hell are all the T-65s? I don't even see them in friggin' casual play, let alone tournaments. It's 21 points, 22 if you want that additional health, has no repositioning actions natively, and a bland dial. Went to a tournament yesterday: Not a single T-65 out of everyone playing there. B-Wings were there, though. 

 

There's enough evidence to prove that IA didn't do anything for the T-65 in reality.

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There's a lot of griping about how Integrated Astromech was meant to be the x-wing 'fix', but failed. 

They didn't. X-wing was good and now it borderlines B-wing in jousting capability.

Even Outperforming ANYTHING in Epic.

 

It's just meta being one-sided Acewing. It has nothing to do with fixes for T-65

 

I don't even know where to start with this. If it was good, then why is it ONLY NOW just below B-Wings in jousting efficiency? And, as a second point to add on to that, where in the hell are all the T-65s? I don't even see them in friggin' casual play, let alone tournaments. It's 21 points, 22 if you want that additional health, has no repositioning actions natively, and a bland dial. Went to a tournament yesterday: Not a single T-65 out of everyone playing there. B-Wings were there, though. 

 

There's enough evidence to prove that IA didn't do anything for the T-65 in reality.

 

It's good, but it's a jouster "fix" and jousters are dead meat.

the last jouster out there is a 50 point IG-2000

 

with TLT, AT and EU out there meta rock-paper-scissors looks like

dodge>turret>joust<dodge

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There's a lot of griping about how Integrated Astromech was meant to be the x-wing 'fix', but failed.

They didn't. X-wing was good and now it borderlines B-wing in jousting capability.

Even Outperforming ANYTHING in Epic.

 

It's just meta being one-sided Acewing. It has nothing to do with fixes for T-65

I don't even know where to start with this. If it was good, then why is it ONLY NOW just below B-Wings in jousting efficiency? And, as a second point to add on to that, where in the hell are all the T-65s? I don't even see them in friggin' casual play, let alone tournaments. It's 21 points, 22 if you want that additional health, has no repositioning actions natively, and a bland dial. Went to a tournament yesterday: Not a single T-65 out of everyone playing there. B-Wings were there, though. 

 

There's enough evidence to prove that IA didn't do anything for the T-65 in reality.

Sure. That's one tournament, I went to a store champs and someone took Luke 0-4, I also went to one where someone took Wedge to the top two. List juggler says that last month t65s made up 6.6% of all rebel ships that's more then the Z or A wing. And has been fairly consistent between 6-9% since the t70 came out and shot to 20% of all ships.m

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There's a lot of griping about how Integrated Astromech was meant to be the x-wing 'fix', but failed.

They didn't. X-wing was good and now it borderlines B-wing in jousting capability.

Even Outperforming ANYTHING in Epic.

 

It's just meta being one-sided Acewing. It has nothing to do with fixes for T-65

I don't even know where to start with this. If it was good, then why is it ONLY NOW just below B-Wings in jousting efficiency? And, as a second point to add on to that, where in the hell are all the T-65s? I don't even see them in friggin' casual play, let alone tournaments. It's 21 points, 22 if you want that additional health, has no repositioning actions natively, and a bland dial. Went to a tournament yesterday: Not a single T-65 out of everyone playing there. B-Wings were there, though. 

 

There's enough evidence to prove that IA didn't do anything for the T-65 in reality.

Last tournament I was at had wedge with vetran instincts bb8 and integrated. I believe he finished 3rd. And that ship tore everyone up.

Just because your local meta does not see any T-65's dies not mean they suck.

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Y'all notice the bit where I didn't want this turning into another x-wing grump fest? :P and I still feel we don't see them because TLTs overshadowed then. Shrug.

On talking with oldbies, apparently autoblasters were meant to be a fix as a spot of anti-swarm tech.

Autoblasters, ladies and gentlemen. :P

Could it really be so?

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VI EU Fett says "HALLO, SOONTIR" and takes out his AB with tasty R1 rerolls.

But yep, 5 points and range restriction make it the second most useless secondary after the flechett cannon 

(because it has scyk on it and FFG hates scyks. and capped damage, and requirement to hit to stress, and no stress stacking...)

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i guess you just need to look at the upgrades that dont see much play to gauge the ones that missed.

 

Autoblaster as a Soontir Killer on the large ships just doesnt cut it. as mentioned here already the range one restriction just renders it unplayable on just about everything not name boba fett and even then those 5pts are too costly on a ship that already starts at 39pts and need VI and EU to make it good enough to play.

 

I have a hunch there is a player out there working on an X-wing rebel list that is good vs the current meta, im talking old-school x-wings. remember when Paul Heavers BBXX walk the dogs squad was tearing up the meta? And yes, Biggs is still one of the most annoying and underrated rebel pilots in the game.

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Balanced and present aren't one and the same. Integrated Astromech sorted out the X-wing mathematically, the problem is that the meta is very hostile to basic mid health mid agility ships. They lack the agility to dodge the TLT which means they get ground down like B-wings do but without the B-wing's sizeable health pool to protect them. Likewise they struggle to deal with mitigation to the max Palpataces.

 

I think the X-wing and maybe the Kihraxz is in the TIE advanced's position in the sense that a flat discount isn't what it needs. The current TIE advanced is a far more attractive proposition than a 17 point vanilla one.

 

(because it has scyk on it and FFG hates scyks. and capped damage, and requirement to hit to stress, and no stress stacking...)

 

Because that'd be crazy from an R1-3 cannon.

 

If you're willing to make it an R2 doublestress cannon put Tactician on it. The existence of Tactician is why I think Flechette is so conservative.

 

remember when Paul Heavers BBXX walk the dogs squad was tearing up the meta?

 

That's because it was good at killing TIE swarms, which were pretty much everything else back then.

Edited by Blue Five

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[...]

 

I have a hunch there is a player out there working on an X-wing rebel list that is good vs the current meta, im talking old-school x-wings. remember when Paul Heavers BBXX walk the dogs squad was tearing up the meta? And yes, Biggs is still one of the most annoying and underrated rebel pilots in the game.

 

Not sure about "old school x-wings" the T-65 is currently on the outs as far as "hyper-competitive" goes. But I'm sure you mean builds with a "classic" look.

 

I've always found Outmaneuver A's to be solid silver. IE you need to polish practice them make them shine bright.

fyi the enclosed is long...

GSP - Title + PTL + Outmaneuver + AT Refit - 25pts (x4) 

-or-

GSP - Title + PTL + Outmaneuver + AT Refit - 25pts (x2) + Ace pilot of choice (EPT Outmaneuver; exception Wedge)

-or- (for your classic look)

GSP - Title + PTL + Outmaneuver + AT Refit - 25pts (x2)

Tarn + R7 + IA

Biggs

-or- (for your classic look touch of salt)

GSP - Title + PTL + Juke - 22pts (x2)

RSV - DTF + R5-P9 + IA

Biggs - R4-D6 + AI

 

Starting with the Base 4x A's it's piranha / wolf pack nip and pick at the formation and force a spread if they're flying 'tight' then Boom-and-Zoom in and out of R1 once they've loosened the formation. Of course for K-Wings you want to simply "nip" until you feel lucky enough for a R1 Kill shot or manage to completely outmaneuver them and predicted properly for a 4x Outmaneuvered shot at R1. 

Basically an extremely loose formation or broken into pairs.

 

"Chase the Ace" preferably Poe, Atsy, or Corran with a regen droid. Go Evasive with the Ace and position for outmaneuver shots hopefully they get "tunnel visioned" and allow your A's to do the heavy lifting OR they focus on the A's and let your Ace go to town.

Same idea as the above, extremely loose formation or Pair the A-Wings.

 

AAXX "A-Wing Slash" basically you've replaced the "Ace" with a pair of old T65's. Slow roll the X-Wings while the A's attempt to open the formation from the flank. hopefully if you've positioned effectively Biggs lands within R1 of your A's while you've surrounded a single TLT-carrier and you're fortunate enough to take one out with enough HP to spare for a rinse and repeat.

Jousting formation and either dual flankers or pair single.

 

While the A's 2atk looks punitive All TLT carriers have Maximum 2agi (HWK-290, Attack Shuttle) hence Outmaneuver over the traditional Predator.

 

---

Reiver, on 14 Mar 2016 - 12:38 AM, said:

 

[...]

On talking with oldbies, apparently autoblasters were meant to be a fix as a spot of anti-swarm tech.

Autoblasters, ladies and gentlemen. :P

Could it really be so?

As for AB's being "anti swarm" tech not sure who considers it that, most I've spoken to felt ABs, ABTs, and HMs to be "Anti High Agility Turtling" weapons. For their costs they do that job reasonably well... But the Degree of Difficulty associated with performing the attack has Volume of Fire yielding similar results at lesser difficulty.. because Dice for the Dice gods! and that saying about poop and walls.

 

Which is why TLT mini-swarms are currently alive. They're the result of "What/IF Fat-Han and Howl-Swarm had a baby what would it look like?" 

You get the number of attack rolls a swarm has, similar output, condensed in a small package, and ignores Arcs while attacking. As well as "distributing your eggs" so it's less vulnerable to the Alpha Strike but not as much as a full swarm.

 

Think I'll end here... I've gotten "ranty"

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I feel the a-wing fix kinda fell flat two ept sounds good but they still hit like a damp squid.

the A-Wing fix was a two part-er with the refit.

 

bare bones a GSP and higher can take 2* EPTs for "free" provided they both cost 1pt.

*Exception: Arvel, Gemmer

 

and as more and more EPTs get added the combinations hopefully turn up the heat (Wired + PTL?) and make those damp squid into fried ones... :)

Edited by IvlerIin

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