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Wildhorn

The 3 Scouts

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So, just suppose FFG do the unique scout "fix".

Not as good as a triple scout, but nearly nearly the same meta problem.

http://xwing-builder.co.uk/view/450364/torpedoooo#

not even close you have a couple of z's that still require the TL for there ordinance, let alone no other mods besides GC. It may hit hard sometimes for 1 round but then it's just squishy

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I personally fail to see how a 25-point ship with unparalleled versatility can be considered balanced against, say, the 30-50 points of TIE/fo fighter you get in the Force Awakens boxed set.

I'm not trying to rant; I have a different viewpoint than most. I cant recommend this game to kids (17 and under). It's not casual-friendly anymore. Too many cutthroat players, too many 'uselessly non- competitive" ships and combinations of ships. Too many mechanic-bending exceptions too quickly released.

If I know a kid with little disposable income, or worse, his/her working-class parents, I have to tell them that this game is very hard to learn, and a lot of ships just aren't worth buying, so you have to know before you buy. In my view, the game has jumped the shark, in that a new-comer has a very, very steep hurdle of knowledge and cost to overcome before he or she will be able to compete with existing competitive players. And in open gaming, my experience has been that everyone is competitive.

The 30-50 points of FO's were already crap against Acewings like Poe and Soontor, which are more efficient for 30-40 points than that same amount of points put into TIE (FO) Fighters.

This has been the case pretty much since the Phantom/Fat Turretwing era. I think it's pretty silly that triple U-Boat is the thing that "goes too far".

Go ahead, let a noob bring a 5 FO list against Palp Aces. He'd be just as screwed.

A noob bringing anything is going to be screwed. The game does take skill and practice. A 5 or 4 tie FO list is not bad. It may not be insane top tier but it stands a chance beating insane top tier if flown well.

Give a noob palp aces and a strong player 5x FO's and the noob is just as screwed.

Give a noob Palp aces, and give another noob 5 FO's and the 5 FO player will lose. Obviously if a bad player is handed a good list you could defeat them easily.

Bad players always had a knack for landing their Phantom on a rock just as the engagement started during the Turretwing era. Didn't mean the Phantom wasn't broken.

 

 

I do not know if this is true, aces have allot more points into them then individual ties. If you mishandle soontir its allot more expensive then if you mishandle a single tie/fo. I believe you are wrong Paragoomba. 

 

In fact a mishandled soontir is even easier to kill then a tie/fo... you are definitely wrong paragoomba.

Edited by Icelom

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Brought three scouts to a SC yesterday, hoping I'd be the only one.

 

Nope.

 

Brought the cards to field the list Muon detailed above, but instead of running the dedicated blocker, I chickened out and ran the Plasma/Overclocked build with Feedback Array in place of Extra Munitions as a compromise instead. Never saw a pesky ace once, so FA was pretty useless.

 

16 players, but the tournament director opted for the Top 8 option.

 

First match is against 3 Jumpmasters (of course). He gives me initiative, so I feel I need to make this a blocking game and take away the ordinance and hopefully out-fly him. I end up on the short end of the dice rolls and start to trail in damage and there's no room to fly with six jumpmasters on the board, so no out-flying for me. 0-1 

 

Next match I obliterate Crackstim Bots. 1-1 

 

Thrid match I lose to a fat Tel Trev because I was trying to hopefully clear him with the alpha strike before he Gonked his way back to full shields. That was a mistake -- his TLT support ships worked me over while I chased an escaping Tel that I had down to one hull before the shields started coming back. 1-2

 

Last match was against a Scum hodgepodge that withered pretty quickly under all that alpha strike. 2-2

 

So, had it been a typical Top 4 tourney (like most local tourneys usually are), I'm done. But I finished seventh and got to continue. 

 

First round of elims I face the #2 finisher, which was three Scum Hawks of all things (which is fantastic...see that Phoenix player with his four Scum Hawks make the final table in Virginia?). His only loss was to the other triple jumpmaster build and my match pretty much goes the same way.

 

Top four now has three of us flying Jumpmaster lists. I square up against the player who doesn't have any jumpmasters and he's flying a Farlander/Jenson combo, along with Biggs. We set up to joust and he clears a scout off the board before it can even fire (Farlander got five hits), but the remaining two were all that was needed. Jenson can't steal both ship's tokens and the rebels had a hard time positioning after the first pass. 

 

The 3x Jumpmaster list that was first in Swiss loses to a 2X Jumpmaster/4Lom build. Which I proceed to lose to in the final as well. I went after 4Lom hard, but made a mistake on the initial approach and once again got behind on the damage curve. So in a mirror match, his MistHunter was the difference maker, putting out more damage than my remaining ordinance free scouts.

 

Setting up your initial joust is crucial, obviously, and harder to achieve than you think. I'm used to flying Imperial, so I was often my own worst enemy. Turn 0 rock placement and the total number of large bases on the board at the same time will have the biggest impact by far, more so than any previous list I've ever flown. It's hard enough staying out of your own way, let alone the opposing large bases as well. Also, figure out how you plan to fly these things when you have initiative and when you don't in mirror matches. I've lost when I had it and when I didn't, so I don't know yet. The Swiss winner preferred deferring it, the overall winner preferred having it. You just love it at the beginning, but you feel pretty meh about them once your ordinance has been spent. Still, if you can keep getting range 1 shots and can take a focus action, then if your remaining scouts have the r4 aggromech, you'll often have a TL+Focus three dice attack for the end game.

 

(sorry if this was too much of a battle report)

Edited by Deroche

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Might be good for Scouts, but not good against any other meta list.

 

Yep, as I said earlier, "Scouts may have Kryptonite, but you have to make sure you don't poison yourself with it."

 

I want to test a dual Decimator list, see if Oicunn+Gunner+Vader (for nailing Aces) and RAC+Engine Upgrade (for arc dodging swarms) is a possible team. It's quite possible to kill one Scout before it gets off its second shot, that means one of the Decis versus two Scouts... nope, still not good odds. *sigh* The Ghost really is better than the Deci.

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Just waiting to see the look on the 3 scouts face when I bring:

Carnor Jax 26

-ptl 3

-title 0

-hull upgrade 3

-autothrusters 2

Omega squadron pilot 17(x3)

-juke 2

-comm relay 3

Because on the turn of engagement Jax should have range 1 of at least 2 scouts (hopefully out of arc) and then those scouts that moved first wouldn't have a way to fire ordnance and their targets would be options that their primary won't even hit. Sure maybe the last scout fires a torpedo, but that shot is more than likely going into an evade tokened tie/fo. Good luck destroying it, not impossible but pretty unlikely.

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Something I've been thinking about: based on what's been said in this thread and my own thoughts I feel Rebels and Empire have some lists that have a good chance against Triple Scouts.

What about Scum? If Brobots fails as spectacularly in practice as it seems to have, is Scum still a one List faction, except now it's triple scout or go home?

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Something I've been thinking about: based on what's been said in this thread and my own thoughts I feel Rebels and Empire have some lists that have a good chance against Triple Scouts.

What about Scum? If Brobots fails as spectacularly in practice as it seems to have, is Scum still a one List faction, except now it's triple scout or go home?

 

I have a 3 freelancer + torkil list I wanna test against it sometime.  Has the potential to kill a scout before it can fire if dice go well enough for me.  Should be able to pretyt easily if I can get into range 1

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Might be good for Scouts, but not good against any other meta list.

 

Yep, as I said earlier, "Scouts may have Kryptonite, but you have to make sure you don't poison yourself with it."

 

I want to test a dual Decimator list, see if Oicunn+Gunner+Vader (for nailing Aces) and RAC+Engine Upgrade (for arc dodging swarms) is a possible team. It's quite possible to kill one Scout before it gets off its second shot, that means one of the Decis versus two Scouts... nope, still not good odds. *sigh* The Ghost really is better than the Deci.

 

Well the Deci has a 3 dice PWT, that does give anadvantage of some kind. It can also go higher on PS. The Ghost just has more hitpoints.

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Might be good for Scouts, but not good against any other meta list.

 

Yep, as I said earlier, "Scouts may have Kryptonite, but you have to make sure you don't poison yourself with it."

 

I want to test a dual Decimator list, see if Oicunn+Gunner+Vader (for nailing Aces) and RAC+Engine Upgrade (for arc dodging swarms) is a possible team. It's quite possible to kill one Scout before it gets off its second shot, that means one of the Decis versus two Scouts... nope, still not good odds. *sigh* The Ghost really is better than the Deci.

 

Well the Deci has a 3 dice PWT, that does give anadvantage of some kind. It can also go higher on PS. The Ghost just has more hitpoints.

 

Ghost and decimator both have 16 health.  Ghost just has 2 extra shields in place of 2 extra hull on the deci.

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Really? Then why are people complaining again?

You may want to try and compare the two, their abilities and point costs.

 

In some cases there's a 6 point discount on the Ghost, for builds with similar roles, but with often vastly improved abilities.

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They aren't really comparable. Fat RAC tears the Ghost in any configuration a new one with his high PS large base boost, free evades and, most important of all, PWT. Fat Kenkirk with Palpatine does the same thing only worse.

 

The Ghost on the other hand is either arc bound at PS7 max or has crappy damage with 2 as a max (that doesn't scare a Decimator at all). It is a vastly different ship, the only similarities being 0 agi and the large base.

Edited by Admiral Deathrain

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Might be good for Scouts, but not good against any other meta list.

 

Yep, as I said earlier, "Scouts may have Kryptonite, but you have to make sure you don't poison yourself with it."

 

I want to test a dual Decimator list, see if Oicunn+Gunner+Vader (for nailing Aces) and RAC+Engine Upgrade (for arc dodging swarms) is a possible team. It's quite possible to kill one Scout before it gets off its second shot, that means one of the Decis versus two Scouts... nope, still not good odds. *sigh* The Ghost really is better than the Deci.

 

Well the Deci has a 3 dice PWT, that does give anadvantage of some kind. It can also go higher on PS. The Ghost just has more hitpoints.

 

Ghost and decimator both have 16 health.  Ghost just has 2 extra shields in place of 2 extra hull on the deci.

 

Deci has EPTs, higher top PS, and is a PWT.

Ghost can reap a bloody harvest with -att primary, has THE great sensor slot and can troll aces with ABturret

 

in other words: DO NOT try direct comparison.

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Fat RAC tears the Ghost in any configuration a new one

 

I'd give it to the Ghost, actually...

 

Kanan with TLT, FCS, 3PO and Lando, with a docked phantom, would absolutely rinse the Admiral.

 

1 Damage output better when out of arc (3 tlt shots with FCS vs pwt)

2 Big spike when in arc (4-5 red & 1 TLT)

3 You're getting an evade action every round, plus a decent chance of 2 if needed.

4 Kanan will be nerfing the deci every few rounds for the lolz - those rounds will be 3 nailed-on damage vs maybe 1, out of arc. In arc things get worse for the deci.

5 even if the deci finds the sweet spot of range one out of both arcs, chances are good Kanan can nerf down to a 3 attack.

5 K-turn to win the joust and keep the arc.

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Fat RAC tears the Ghost in any configuration a new one

 

I'd give it to the Ghost, actually...

 

Kanan with TLT, FCS, 3PO and Lando, with a docked phantom, would absolutely rinse the Admiral.

 

1 Damage output better when out of arc (3 tlt shots with FCS vs pwt)

2 Big spike when in arc (4-5 red & 1 TLT)

3 You're getting an evade action every round, plus a decent chance of 2 if needed.

4 Kanan will be nerfing the deci every few rounds for the lolz - those rounds will be 3 nailed-on damage vs maybe 1, out of arc. In arc things get worse for the deci.

5 even if the deci finds the sweet spot of range one out of both arcs, chances are good Kanan can nerf down to a 3 attack.

5 K-turn to win the joust and keep the arc.

 

And gets OWNED by a solo ace that comes with RAC. because single TLT doesn't scare any AT user.

C3PO doesn't work on ghost 90% of the time because you make no roll. No roll-no trigger.

Joust? Jousting with a PWT? No, really? like REALLY?

And yeah, what kanan? Rebel captive says "LOL"

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Dunno what happened to the other scout player but he told me he had to "work for it, hard" every round and did 2-2

 

Here is a quick recap :

 

R1 Loss vs Kanan(Adv Sensors & Rec Spec) / Kyle / Biggs : I was going for the block on Kanan until i realised, too late, he had Sensors, threw me off a bit. Biggs died in the first round depsite my 3 scouts shooting with 1 less red die. Kanan rolled solid reds all game and my last scout died with full health Kyle still on the table and a heartbreaking 3v0 shot on 1 health Kanan that blanked. Opponent was a very good and experienced player, we both played well and i feel only luck could have prevented a loss for me in this game.

 

R2 Loss vs Latts / Palob(ion) / Dace(ion) : first torp volley was 2 on Latts (down to 4 health) and 1 on Palob (down to 3 health), i needed Palob off the board quick. Only 1 scout had Palob in arc the next round, 4 blanks rerolled to 4 blanks, arrgh, took me two more rounds to finish off palob with primaries & TL while i lost 1 scout and dace took a stress to get half points on another scout in the final round. I had a huge advantage list wise and still lost 49-50, leaving Latts and Dace at 2 hp each, 60 minute rounds kind of hurt me here. Opponent played her list vert well without any mistakes, she deserved the win.

 

R3 Win vs Miranda and Warden (2x Cluster Mines each) and 2 bandits (w/ Homing missiles) i tried to get the K-wings off the board ASAP and ignore the Bandits, but he slammed the K-Wings leaving me no choice to torp the bandits to death. 1 of them still survived to shoot it`s missile. He then adv. slammed a Cluster mine on top of a Scout, took him down to 2hit points. That Warden died the next round while Miranda entered the fray. She ate a torp and a couple of primaries but was still at 3 hull when she turned on a rock and rolled a crit for two hits. I killed her as time was called or i would have lost on points. Too close for comfort again, 60 minutes rounds are hard for large ships.

 

R4 Win vs Zuckus/NDru/Latts, i was finally starting to get a good feel of the JM5K`s dial after a few rounds and i played this one pretty well, Latts lasted 2 rounds, N'dru fired only twice before dying and Zuckuss was in a bad spot while i still had two scouts on the table. I had good rolls for change and Zuckuss was left with a very uphill situation when time was called.

 

Summary, i'm glad that the scouts are not OP, i am relieved that FFG didnt break the game by releasing those. Like Thugs, against some, the list can be pretty brutal, but it still has some weaknesses that can be exploited on the table. 

Edited by JackRabbit

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Is the Ghost any good in this matchup? Slam into them with Chopper possibly making them predictable with that dial. Equip the Autoblaster Turret and Accuracy Corrector. Double tapping with Phantom. The 5k turn. 16 points to chew through. I haven't run the Ghost yet but it jumped out as something I'd want throw at the triple scout list.

 

BTW does the triple scout list have a nickname yet?

Triple U-boat.

 

 

I prefer "triple toilet seat". 

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Kanan with TLT, FCS, 3PO and Lando, with a docked phantom, would absolutely rinse the Admiral.

 

 

C3PO doesn't work on ghost 90% of the time because you make no roll. No roll-no trigger.

 

 

C3P0 triggers every time the Ghost Landos as an action.

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