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The 3 Scouts

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Seems to me like we'll probably have a list that counters it soon.  The biggest thing is to work on reducing the massive ordnance damage either through mitigation or denial.  Some things I can see..

 

1) Wes removes the focus token preventing them from firing.

2) Stressbots prevent them from getting the action they need to use to fire -- and makes them more predictable in movement when they need to clear stress

3) Biggs can use R4-D6 to absorb a ton of damage, so long as they aren't critting a ton

4) Arc dodging is still viable

5) Reinforced deflectors can reduce the burst damage

 

What else is worth doing?

These are good points, but just wanted to make some counter points for discussion purposes.

 

1) Wes removes one of the Scouts focus. And, in the case he becomes very popular and proves effective, RecSpec is a good option as crew.

 

2)Stressbot is not especially effective in my opinion. He gets the double stress on one of the targets if he lives, and in a lot of cases, as long as they get their initial alpha strike off, the Scouts wont care much about the stress afterwards.

 

3) Proton torps are probably the most popular torp right now, and it gets a crit in there to turn off R4-D6 (if I understand R4-D6 correctly. I admittedly haven't seen it trigger ever). I do think Biggs is a good option just by pulling shots his way though. I'm especially interested in these Kanan builds.

 

4) Arc dodging is much harder when you are trying to dodge 3 large base arcs with a very maneuverable dial.

 

5) Deflectors is actually something I've been thinking about. There might be something there.

 

I feel ilke I've posted this one too many times, but here's how I would combine my list

 

http://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Rebel%20Alliance&d=v4!s!4:-1,77:-1:20:;82:30,-1,3:-1:20:;6:135,-1,-1,69:21:-1:;64:-1:-1:-1:&sn=3x%20JumpMaster%20Counter

 

Send your squadron into the joust.  Wes removes the token from the proton torp carrier.  Biggs is going to draw fire from 2 torpedoes -- any crits he can pass to Wes.   if he takes some big nasty ones, he can jettison the astromech to discard it.  The stressbot will not be attacked opening round and can double stress a different target from Wes.  Then try to use your Z-95 as a blocker in later rounds.   You can survive the joust, and hopefully take it down.  The only problem is I don't know if this list would fight *any* other list well at all.

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Here are my thoughts so far

  • Crackblack, obvs, kill it before it fires if you're lucky
  • Blockers: anything speedy PS < 3 that can zoom in, get some blocks, and prevent the Scout from focusing
  • Focus stripping/negating: Wes would be good to strip focuses, Carnor can prevent the action, Palob (if he had a better frickin' dial)
  • Mirror match: go for 99 point bid (drop 4Lom), get some blocks in
  • Arc dodgy stuff: Dash comes to mind, with his slippery-ness he can get out of arc and blast them with his HLC
  • Palp+Ace with autothrusters: bait the torp attack with a stacked ace with tokens at range 3 with auto.  Pray. Note: 4-Lom makes this scary.
  • EDIT: The S&V slack channel is debating Brobots -- if they can survive the alpha strike it might go ok

If you bring Wes, great for me. Palob too. Those are ships I can just leave for the end game and turret to death, or ones that are still easy to drop 4 hits on with a torp.

Blockers are a good idea.

Arc dodgy stuff, especially palp aces. Perhaps.

Brobots are a good idea.

IMO you could build an ordnance list based around PS 4 quite easily with Guardian Squadrons, Black Eight Squadrons, Gamma Squadrons. You should be able to deal with Kriegsmarine easily enough with those. FCS Clusters Chips Redline is also good at killing low agility targets.

It's good that these thing are OP. The meta needs to change from Acewing back to arc based generics, which should counter triple Scouts.

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Seems to me like we'll probably have a list that counters it soon.  The biggest thing is to work on reducing the massive ordnance damage either through mitigation or denial.  Some things I can see..

 

1) Wes removes the focus token preventing them from firing.

2) Stressbots prevent them from getting the action they need to use to fire -- and makes them more predictable in movement when they need to clear stress

3) Biggs can use R4-D6 to absorb a ton of damage, so long as they aren't critting a ton

4) Arc dodging is still viable

5) Reinforced deflectors can reduce the burst damage

 

What else is worth doing?

These are good points, but just wanted to make some counter points for discussion purposes.

 

1) Wes removes one of the Scouts focus. And, in the case he becomes very popular and proves effective, RecSpec is a good option as crew.

 

2)Stressbot is not especially effective in my opinion. He gets the double stress on one of the targets if he lives, and in a lot of cases, as long as they get their initial alpha strike off, the Scouts wont care much about the stress afterwards.

 

3) Proton torps are probably the most popular torp right now, and it gets a crit in there to turn off R4-D6 (if I understand R4-D6 correctly. I admittedly haven't seen it trigger ever). I do think Biggs is a good option just by pulling shots his way though. I'm especially interested in these Kanan builds.

 

4) Arc dodging is much harder when you are trying to dodge 3 large base arcs with a very maneuverable dial.

 

5) Deflectors is actually something I've been thinking about. There might be something there.

 

I feel ilke I've posted this one too many times, but here's how I would combine my list

 

http://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Rebel%20Alliance&d=v4!s!4:-1,77:-1:20:;82:30,-1,3:-1:20:;6:135,-1,-1,69:21:-1:;64:-1:-1:-1:&sn=3x%20JumpMaster%20Counter

 

Send your squadron into the joust.  Wes removes the token from the proton torp carrier.  Biggs is going to draw fire from 2 torpedoes -- any crits he can pass to Wes.   if he takes some big nasty ones, he can jettison the astromech to discard it.  The stressbot will not be attacked opening round and can double stress a different target from Wes.  Then try to use your Z-95 as a blocker in later rounds.   You can survive the joust, and hopefully take it down.  The only problem is I don't know if this list would fight *any* other list well at all.

 

 

I fought a Biggs list with Scouts the other night. Biggs really gummed up the works by getting into Range 1 of Scouts who wanted to torpedo guys at range 2 but had to take crappy turret shots instead. Barely pulled it out in the end, but it was a hard challenge.

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I think Glittercrack Brobots are also promising, on paper at least. Glitterstim plus Autothrusters gives you 2 evade results on average, cutting each Torp damage in half. Additionally, IG-88s are quite manevrabil to arc-dodge a fair bit and as large ships with Boost they will often have the option to boost to range 1 if caught in arc (so 3 dice primary instead of modded 4 dice Torp).

Only other Scum option I can think about is PtL Dengar. He's certainly nimble enough to arc-dodged a fair bit (though not as nimble as Dash of course) but even so he can't really solo 3 scouts, he'll succumb to 2 dice primaries eventually. No idea what to pair with him to help. An Ig-88b or maybe even a Contracted Scout with Torps?

Edited by LordBlades

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I think Glittercrack Brobots are also promising, on paper at least. Glitterstim plus Autothrusters gives you 2 evade results on average, cutting each Torp damage in half. Additionally, IG-88s are quite manevrabil to arc-dodge a fair bit and as large ships with Boost they will often have the option to boost to range 1 if caught in arc (so 3 dice primary instead of modded 4 dice Torp).

Only other Scum option I can think about is PtL Dengar. He's certainly nimble enough to arc-dodged a fair bit (though not as nimble as Dash of course) but even so he can't really solo 3 scouts, he'll succumb to 2 dice primaries eventually. No idea what to pair with him to help. An Ig-88b or maybe even a Contracted Scout with Torps?

 

Had two games with Scouts vs Glittercrackbots yesterday. One lasted 4 turns, the other one 5. Their problem is that they have to point their gun toward you, which makes them easily blocked (or "blocked," where you deny their boost but still get a turret shot). Both games saw A fall to two torpedoes and a turret and then B get blocked to hell while the other scouts kept putting torpedoes in.

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The limiting of 2 large base ships in 100 point list is actually one of the better ideas i've seen and probably the least painful revision of the rules and/or cards proposed thus far. Would like to see FFG comment on this soon after regionals season.

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The limiting of 2 large base ships in 100 point list is actually one of the better ideas i've seen and probably the least painful revision of the rules and/or cards proposed thus far. Would like to see FFG comment on this soon after regionals season.

 

Er, no, because that would mean that we couldn't run mass shuttles. It's a problem that doesn't need fixing.

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I can't wait to see how people find a solution to this list. I was planning a Dengar + Boba/IG for my next tournament, but the siren call of "join them if you can't beat them" is annoyingly present. All you awesome players need to figure it out for the rest of us!

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I personally fail to see how a 25-point ship with unparalleled versatility can be considered balanced against, say, the 30-50 points of TIE/fo fighter you get in the Force Awakens boxed set.

 

I'm not trying to rant; I have a different viewpoint than most.  I cant recommend this game to kids (17 and under).  It's not casual-friendly anymore.  Too many cutthroat players, too many 'uselessly non- competitive" ships and combinations of ships.  Too many mechanic-bending exceptions too quickly released. 

 

If I know a kid with little disposable income, or worse, his/her working-class parents, I have to tell them that this game is very hard to learn, and a lot of ships just aren't worth buying, so you have to know before you buy.  In my view, the game has jumped the shark, in that a new-comer has a very, very steep hurdle of knowledge and cost to overcome before he or she will be able to compete with existing competitive players.  And in open gaming, my experience has been that everyone is competitive. 

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In fairness, that's a hurdle every game hits at some point; the variety that makes it so great becomes the most intimidating part of getting involved. When I say it happens to every game, I do mean literally every expanding game. Everything from CCGs like Netrunner and Magic, computer games like League of Legends and Starcraft, and even board games like Pandemic and Small World.

Luckily, we have interwebs for research on these things. Sure, not everyone will want to have to research a game before buying in, but some people find fun in that part too. Learning new language from the game phrasing, and new mechanics.

For those that don't, it's still a perfectly fun game with the core set, and any two random expansions expansions you like the look of. It doesn't require you to be uber competitive or a divine list builder. It just requires some patience and imagination. You can have a cracking time with a Falcon and an X-wing against a Firespray and a pair of fighters.

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I personally fail to see how a 25-point ship with unparalleled versatility can be considered balanced against, say, the 30-50 points of TIE/fo fighter you get in the Force Awakens boxed set.

34 points of TIE/fo against 34 points of Jumpmaster is probably a fairly well balanced fight.

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I personally fail to see how a 25-point ship with unparalleled versatility can be considered balanced against, say, the 30-50 points of TIE/fo fighter you get in the Force Awakens boxed set.

 

I'm not trying to rant; I have a different viewpoint than most.  I cant recommend this game to kids (17 and under).  It's not casual-friendly anymore.  Too many cutthroat players, too many 'uselessly non- competitive" ships and combinations of ships.  Too many mechanic-bending exceptions too quickly released. 

 

If I know a kid with little disposable income, or worse, his/her working-class parents, I have to tell them that this game is very hard to learn, and a lot of ships just aren't worth buying, so you have to know before you buy.  In my view, the game has jumped the shark, in that a new-comer has a very, very steep hurdle of knowledge and cost to overcome before he or she will be able to compete with existing competitive players.  And in open gaming, my experience has been that everyone is competitive.

The 30-50 points of FO's were already crap against Acewings like Poe and Soontor, which are more efficient for 30-40 points than that same amount of points put into TIE (FO) Fighters.

This has been the case pretty much since the Phantom/Fat Turretwing era. I think it's pretty silly that triple U-Boat is the thing that "goes too far".

Go ahead, let a noob bring a 5 FO list against Palp Aces. He'd be just as screwed.

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I personally fail to see how a 25-point ship with unparalleled versatility can be considered balanced against, say, the 30-50 points of TIE/fo fighter you get in the Force Awakens boxed set.

I'm not trying to rant; I have a different viewpoint than most. I cant recommend this game to kids (17 and under). It's not casual-friendly anymore. Too many cutthroat players, too many 'uselessly non- competitive" ships and combinations of ships. Too many mechanic-bending exceptions too quickly released.

If I know a kid with little disposable income, or worse, his/her working-class parents, I have to tell them that this game is very hard to learn, and a lot of ships just aren't worth buying, so you have to know before you buy. In my view, the game has jumped the shark, in that a new-comer has a very, very steep hurdle of knowledge and cost to overcome before he or she will be able to compete with existing competitive players. And in open gaming, my experience has been that everyone is competitive.

The 30-50 points of FO's were already crap against Acewings like Poe and Soontor, which are more efficient for 30-40 points than that same amount of points put into TIE (FO) Fighters.

This has been the case pretty much since the Phantom/Fat Turretwing era. I think it's pretty silly that triple U-Boat is the thing that "goes too far".

Go ahead, let a noob bring a 5 FO list against Palp Aces. He'd be just as screwed.

A noob bringing anything is going to be screwed. The game does take skill and practice. A 5 or 4 tie FO list is not bad. It may not be insane top tier but it stands a chance beating insane top tier if flown well.

Give a noob palp aces and a strong player 5x FO's and the noob is just as screwed.

Edited by Icelom

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I'll add a quick 2 cents to this conversation, we had store championship today, albeit they're only 60 mins rounds due to unavoidable store constraints. I brought a different type of 3x scout, with one dedicated blocker (APL, feedback, intimidation and intel agent) flanked by a plasma and proton torp scouts, 99 pts and another player brought the triple plasma "classic" 3 scouts. We were 19 players and I finished 9th, the other a few spots under that.

R1: palp aces tables me, kill the proton scout before it had a chance of doing anything (direct hit and 2x double blanks from me, the shuttle was FLEEING and not even taking part of combat).

R2: I have the bye, being the only one being defeated so hard

R3: 100-32 wins I believe

R4: 46-45 loss against our totally new player. He ran a straightforward Rebel list, proto chardaan auto, Y-wing Ion turret, VI r2 auto Poe and a naked blue.

Dunno what happened to the other scout player but he told me he had to "work for it, hard" every round and did 2-2

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I'll add a quick 2 cents to this conversation, we had store championship today, albeit they're only 60 mins rounds due to unavoidable store constraints. I brought a different type of 3x scout, with one dedicated blocker (APL, feedback, intimidation and intel agent) flanked by a plasma and proton torp scouts, 99 pts and another player brought the triple plasma "classic" 3 scouts. We were 19 players and I finished 9th, the other a few spots under that.

R1: palp aces tables me, kill the proton scout before it had a chance of doing anything (direct hit and 2x double blanks from me, the shuttle was FLEEING and not even taking part of combat).

R2: I have the bye, being the only one being defeated so hard

R3: 100-32 wins I believe

R4: 46-45 loss against our totally new player. He ran a straightforward Rebel list, proto chardaan auto, Y-wing Ion turret, VI r2 auto Poe and a naked blue.

Dunno what happened to the other scout player but he told me he had to "work for it, hard" every round and did 2-2

 

Interesting, especially considering it instantly won 2 or so store championships in other locations.

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I think the wins might just come down to how many jumpmasters are being played because of the new hotness and an interesting new list archetype.

 

To me, the jumpmaster is a really well designed ship with a ton of ways to build it that are cool as hell and that's the ideal of what a ship should be.

Edited by Panzeh

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I'll add a quick 2 cents to this conversation, we had store championship today, albeit they're only 60 mins rounds due to unavoidable store constraints. I brought a different type of 3x scout, with one dedicated blocker (APL, feedback, intimidation and intel agent) flanked by a plasma and proton torp scouts, 99 pts and another player brought the triple plasma "classic" 3 scouts. We were 19 players and I finished 9th, the other a few spots under that.

R1: palp aces tables me, kill the proton scout before it had a chance of doing anything (direct hit and 2x double blanks from me, the shuttle was FLEEING and not even taking part of combat).

R2: I have the bye, being the only one being defeated so hard

R3: 100-32 wins I believe

R4: 46-45 loss against our totally new player. He ran a straightforward Rebel list, proto chardaan auto, Y-wing Ion turret, VI r2 auto Poe and a naked blue.

Dunno what happened to the other scout player but he told me he had to "work for it, hard" every round and did 2-2

 

Interesting, especially considering it instantly won 2 or so store championships in other locations.

A lot of the success of triple u-boat is probably going to come down to a player's experience flying large base ships. A player that has spent a lot of time flying large ships (especially those that require keeping their targets in arc) should do much better than a player that hasn't spent much time flying large based ships, let alone multiple large base ships.

I wouldn't be surprised if the people winning SCs with the list have some experience with triple Bounty Hunters or Brobots.

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I'll add a quick 2 cents to this conversation, we had store championship today, albeit they're only 60 mins rounds due to unavoidable store constraints. I brought a different type of 3x scout, with one dedicated blocker (APL, feedback, intimidation and intel agent) flanked by a plasma and proton torp scouts, 99 pts and another player brought the triple plasma "classic" 3 scouts. We were 19 players and I finished 9th, the other a few spots under that.

R1: palp aces tables me, kill the proton scout before it had a chance of doing anything (direct hit and 2x double blanks from me, the shuttle was FLEEING and not even taking part of combat).

R2: I have the bye, being the only one being defeated so hard

R3: 100-32 wins I believe

R4: 46-45 loss against our totally new player. He ran a straightforward Rebel list, proto chardaan auto, Y-wing Ion turret, VI r2 auto Poe and a naked blue.

Dunno what happened to the other scout player but he told me he had to "work for it, hard" every round and did 2-2

 

Interesting, especially considering it instantly won 2 or so store championships in other locations.

 

 

The new hotness always blindsides people at the first few events after release. BroBots, PalpAces and Quad-TLTs all stomped their way to easy wins just after their initial release, and they've all since settled down to be just another strong list to play with and against. 
 
Everyone needs to calm down and be patient. Right now people are looking to try the new hotness and no-one outside Vassal users (which is an extremely small portion of the player base) have any experience fighting them. If the Wolf Pack is still dominating in 2-3 months time, we might have a problem, but it's too early to say one way or the other right now.

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I personally fail to see how a 25-point ship with unparalleled versatility can be considered balanced against, say, the 30-50 points of TIE/fo fighter you get in the Force Awakens boxed set.

I'm not trying to rant; I have a different viewpoint than most. I cant recommend this game to kids (17 and under). It's not casual-friendly anymore. Too many cutthroat players, too many 'uselessly non- competitive" ships and combinations of ships. Too many mechanic-bending exceptions too quickly released.

If I know a kid with little disposable income, or worse, his/her working-class parents, I have to tell them that this game is very hard to learn, and a lot of ships just aren't worth buying, so you have to know before you buy. In my view, the game has jumped the shark, in that a new-comer has a very, very steep hurdle of knowledge and cost to overcome before he or she will be able to compete with existing competitive players. And in open gaming, my experience has been that everyone is competitive.

The 30-50 points of FO's were already crap against Acewings like Poe and Soontor, which are more efficient for 30-40 points than that same amount of points put into TIE (FO) Fighters.

This has been the case pretty much since the Phantom/Fat Turretwing era. I think it's pretty silly that triple U-Boat is the thing that "goes too far".

Go ahead, let a noob bring a 5 FO list against Palp Aces. He'd be just as screwed.

A noob bringing anything is going to be screwed. The game does take skill and practice. A 5 or 4 tie FO list is not bad. It may not be insane top tier but it stands a chance beating insane top tier if flown well.

Give a noob palp aces and a strong player 5x FO's and the noob is just as screwed.

Give a noob Palp aces, and give another noob 5 FO's and the 5 FO player will lose. Obviously if a bad player is handed a good list you could defeat them easily.

Bad players always had a knack for landing their Phantom on a rock just as the engagement started during the Turretwing era. Didn't mean the Phantom wasn't broken.

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The players who won against me are not exposed to the hysteria of the FFG x-wing forums, the part that calls for falling skies anytime something strong gleans in the distance. *shrugs*

I understand where your coming from, but didn't even know about this list till I played it. I did win against a double scout with a couple z's ( he is our current regionals champ as well) though he went onto smash everyone else. The triple list for what I see is much harder to avoid taking constant damage.

I'm not too prone to hysteria, the will be some kind of list and method to be able to take down this beast. The problem with such a list is how too. Yes I can see some games like the other person your referring to at your sc who will have a bad day but let's be honest here it's the kind of list you don't actually have to make a mistake against, a slight miss reading of where they will go and your coping multiple rounds of full modified dice from multiple ships. Ships that unless they are unlucky are unlikely to go down in one round let alone 2 and are not just relying on ordinance .

Of course we can all make out like everyone who plays xwing and loses to this list is just crap at playing xwing and just needs to do the obvious thing of "getting better at flying "

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