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Wildhorn

The 3 Scouts

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I think that what you have to keep in mind when building against it is try to destroy one (or at least force him to use his focus) before he had the chance to fire. Then you have 4 Torpedo attack to soak. Easier said than done I know, but doable. I think that N'Dru with Lonewolf/Cluster Missiles/Glitterstim/Guidance Chip should be a good tool against them. I'm thinking about a list with him that should be able to handle the 3 Scout list. Or a crackswarm should be good too against the list: They all fire before and you have a lot of body to soak the torpedo attacks.

 

Alpha strike is now definetly a thing to keep in mind. 3 Scout is the most obvious list, but Blount wit Z or Jonus with Bombers will be a thing too. You now have to prepare for a devastating Alpha Stirke. A new list archetype has entered the game, one that has been waiting since wave 1 to come in.

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Played last night the following list and it was pretty strong and alot of fun:

Nrdu:

-Crack

-Homing

-GC

-Cloaking

Scout:

-Dead

-Boba

-Proton

-EM

-GC

Slaver:

-K4

-Outlaw

-EU

-Gonk

I just refuse to jump in the band wagon and buy 2 extra Jumpmaster as I know you can make pretty solid build much more versatile with 1 Scout...

I played against 4x Blue with AS on them. Not the most powerful build, but very tanky.

The shock is obvious at first... Nrdu 5 dice homing + crack, combined with the first proton volley = Death blue. So he basically started the game with a 100 point list of 3 Blue AS...

Second turn, he lost another Bwing, but they were able to fight back and did some damage to my Scout. After the 3rd turn my Scout was with no shield left and 5 Hull was shooting at range 3 to a Bwing without doing any damage whatsoever. The game was lost for my opponent anyway, because my Slaver was able to boost away and for a few turns got the time to replenish all but 1 shield (Gonk on a EU Yv is the sh*t btw) and a cloak Nrdu is alot of fun and surprisingly really hard to kill but my Scout would definitely not had won me the game after the ordnance was fired and it was only against a 1 agility ship. Not only that my opponent had an extremely bad retaliating roll, like doing only 2 damage overall on his 2nd attack...with 3 bwings

The thing is... If you can blunt that Alpha strike... A 2 dice turret is just doing virtually nothing. I can easily imagine a lone Soontir single handedly decimating 2 Scout that has only their primary turret, with them getting slowly eaten alive and be helpless about it...

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I think that what you have to keep in mind when building against it is try to destroy one (or at least force him to use his focus) before he had the chance to fire. Then you have 4 Torpedo attack to soak. Easier said than done I know, but doable. I think that N'Dru with Lonewolf/Cluster Missiles/Glitterstim/Guidance Chip should be a good tool against them. I'm thinking about a list with him that should be able to handle the 3 Scout list. Or a crackswarm should be good too against the list: They all fire before and you have a lot of body to soak the torpedo attacks.

 

Alpha strike is now definetly a thing to keep in mind. 3 Scout is the most obvious list, but Blount wit Z or Jonus with Bombers will be a thing too. You now have to prepare for a devastating Alpha Stirke. A new list archetype has entered the game, one that has been waiting since wave 1 to come in.

Can't wait to try my Crack swarm list against that triple u-boat. It's totally possible to kill one scout on the first engagement. On the second round its a range 1 bump fest, at least one of the 2 remaining scout will not be able to shoot his torpedo. If the swarm player can manage to lose only one tie and kill a Scout before it has the chance to fire on the first round of attack. I am pretty sure that it is game over... But I just can't wait to put those 2 builds against each other and for sure someone will come up at our local store with a triple u boat list pretty soon.

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i thnk the biggest take away is limiting the Alpha strike which will neuter the 3 scout list. Improve your Turn 0 strategy and fly better. Complaining about auto-win or pay to win are just excuses that will not make you a better player. New ships mean you have to learn to adapt and become a better pilot.

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The game will return to a game of skill, not just having higher pilot skill and boosting with wave 8. Unless they run all green super Dash and the Super Dengar Rendar, but Kriegsmarine will put an end to those too.

Tbh I think that's somewhat wishful thinking. Super Dengar and Super Dash are large ships with boost and barrel roll. They will have just about the easiest posdible time to arc dodge the scouts. IMO, if you get a shot that's not through an obstacle with a scout on a Kanan Dash, he probably screwed up.

U-boats are a very strong list, but it's a list of PS3 ships that need to keep you in arc, which means they can be outflown. Super Dash and Dengar have an easier time than most in achieving that.

The thing about U-Boats is that I can just shrug whenever you arc dodge me and just plink away with my primary weapon turrets. Range 1 is easy to get with q large base turret, and even without it Dash is going to die.

If you're shooting at range 3 out of arc (that's where Dash wants to be, and likely will be most of the time) you're shooting 2 red vs. 3 green, while he retaliates 4 red vs 2 green. I think Dash comes out 9n top in this exchange, possibly even vs. 2 Scouts. Al that's completely ignoring Dash's wingman.

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the pwt is quite sh*tty, though

 

 

you're not going to be killing much of anything until after the torps are gone and you can devote all your attention into brining r4 + focus range 1 shots to bear, unless the opponent has my luck :(

 

 

in fact, the first time I won v them was precisely because I was able to exhaust their torps

 

 

 

bam! shot one down before it fired; traded redline to do so. Inefficient point trade (38 to 33) but that was 4 torps gone.

 

 

after some fan-angling (hard to disentangle ties and large bases), the next attack opprotunity blew up a Tie and took the shields off of range 3 Inq

 

 

 

 

my Tie fighter has a range 1 shot on a 1 hull Jumpy; flubs it royally (predictably) and then rolls 3 blanks on the defense

 

fortunately, the Inq isn't so sh*tty

 

 

 

so the game boils down to just a torpless jumpmaster and the Inq

 

 

while the jump's dial and my opponent's skill made it very possible to get a rng 1 shot (Inq's stressed dial has very little surface area and there's no point flying forward to expose him to the PWT, so it's a lot of blocks made intentionally by bother players and trying to run out to a range that isn't one), the Inq had PTL (because he has to) and he just won the long, drawn out modifier war

 

 

That list (Redline+Inq.+2 TIE/FOs) looks a lot like a list I was planning to use today if my netlisting 'friend' decides to bust out triple-Js. Which two /FOs did you use? The /FO seems like a solid bet because it has a decent chance (with 4 HP and 3 Ag) to survive a proton/plasma shot. Has to be two naked Omegas unless you were running something other than Clusters or Protons on Redline.

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To be fair, we're talking about a list that was well telegraphed as being strong, but it's only been on the tables for... what, two days? 

The list has been on Vassal for quite some time already and IT IS strong.

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I don't know about your area, but I don't think there's a single person in my local meta that uses Vassal. In fact, I haven't actually met someone in person who uses it. I have no doubt that this was thrashed around on Vassal, these things always are from the moment of the preview, but it still doesn't preclude most of your opponents in a store setting having never played or even seen it before.

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To be fair, we're talking about a list that was well telegraphed as being strong, but it's only been on the tables for... what, two days? 

The list has been on Vassal for quite some time already and IT IS strong.

 

Anything particular people do to combat them? Maybe its time for a "U-Boats: Why they are scary and how you can fight back" thread like the one Vorpal did for TLTs by someone who alrready has some experience in this field.

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I don't know about your area, but I don't think there's a single person in my local meta that uses Vassal. In fact, I haven't actually met someone in person who uses it. I have no doubt that this was thrashed around on Vassal, these things always are from the moment of the preview, but it still doesn't preclude most of your opponents in a store setting having never played or even seen it before.

The guy who develop the X-Wing module on Vassal (Mu0n) is in my local meta :)

And quite a few people use it here. 

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Oh I know a bunch of people use it here (I'm almost certainly in the minority), I just mean over here I've never played anyone in person who's used it. I've wanted to try it, if for no other reason than to just get some more games in (I work a swing shift, so every other month I'm on nights, and that rather eats into opportunities to play...), but I just never have gotten around to it.
For me, the bleeding edge of the meta kicks off now, in the days after the release, rather than the months before. I know if anyone took a triple U-boat list to the store this weekend, it'd probably dominate because most won't know how to run against it. Give it a couple of weeks, and those clever clogs will have come up with some wild way of exploiting a weakness though.

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Oh I know a bunch of people use it here (I'm almost certainly in the minority), I just mean over here I've never played anyone in person who's used it. I've wanted to try it, if for no other reason than to just get some more games in (I work a swing shift, so every other month I'm on nights, and that rather eats into opportunities to play...), but I just never have gotten around to it.

For me, the bleeding edge of the meta kicks off now, in the days after the release, rather than the months before. I know if anyone took a triple U-boat list to the store this weekend, it'd probably dominate because most won't know how to run against it. Give it a couple of weeks, and those clever clogs will have come up with some wild way of exploiting a weakness though.

By "here" i meant where I live.

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every wave is a new pay to win, because you're paying for sexy new ships and winning with them

Yea, this whole game is practically pay to win - like a crackswarm. You are buying six Khiraxz ships for one single card. That is the cost of two jumpmasters. Or buying a raider for Palpatine, wtf. You want two copies Veteran Instincts for your Imperial squad? Go buy Falcon and Slave I. I say, someone buying 3 three ships that they are actually going to fly, is called playing the game.

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Oh I know a bunch of people use it here (I'm almost certainly in the minority), I just mean over here I've never played anyone in person who's used it. I've wanted to try it, if for no other reason than to just get some more games in (I work a swing shift, so every other month I'm on nights, and that rather eats into opportunities to play...), but I just never have gotten around to it.

For me, the bleeding edge of the meta kicks off now, in the days after the release, rather than the months before. I know if anyone took a triple U-boat list to the store this weekend, it'd probably dominate because most won't know how to run against it. Give it a couple of weeks, and those clever clogs will have come up with some wild way of exploiting a weakness though.

It is a very easy list to fly, hits harder than any in the game in an initial engagenent, has a turret so you always have shots and is an amazing blocker. It's going to be a meta staple of not more.

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every wave is a new pay to win, because you're paying for sexy new ships and winning with them

Yea, this whole game is practically pay to win - like a crackswarm. You are buying six Khiraxz ships for one single card. That is the cost of two jumpmasters. Or buying a raider for Palpatine, wtf. You want two copies Veteran Instincts for your Imperial squad? Go buy Falcon and Slave I. I say, someone buying 3 three ships that they are actually going to fly, is called playing the game.

 

 

I bought 4 crackshot cards for 2 bucks a piece on ebay.

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There are a number of generically named unique pilots in the T-70 and /fo. While I understand the reasons for this the precedent has already been set. That said I would hate to see a knee-jerk reaction to the apparent power of the U-Boats (and I doubt we will). More high agility aces on the table flying to control range and arc sounds like exactly the sort of game I want to play.

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recommended fix: make contracted scout unique

 

Why must things be "fixed" just because they're particularly viable?  Sure, 3 Scouts will hit hard in an initial engagement.  So deny them that engagement.

 

They're PS 3; so against most lists they're going to be moving close to first and you know what they're going to want to do; set up for that Torp strike.  Which means you should be able to anticipate where they'll manouever to.  So don't joust, roll slow, skirt the board edges, draw them into the obstacle field and break them up.  Then seek to flank them and concentrate fire.  Yes, they're 9HP, but they're only two agility; they'll go down fairly quickly under fire.  Particularly if they're looking to save their focus tokens for their own torps.

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