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Wildhorn

The 3 Scouts

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If triple U-Boat takes over, hopefully it will change the meta enough by dominating it. Then you'll see stuff like quad HM bomber at PS 4 or youngster rage 8 TIE Swarm to counter it.

I suspect you'll also see hybrid Acewing/Ordnancewing lists. Ordnance on certain high PS pilots that can just drop things.

IMO, triple CS is not an NPE list vs. newbies. ******* Palp Aces or 10 free shields a game Super Poe is.

 

But most newbs will play 10 free shields super Poe themselves, either with proxies for Astromech or downright as their initial plan to start the game with buying two core sets, a starviper and whatever gives them PTL. And I am basically speaking of experience as this is exactly what my wife played on our freaking second game. 

I had still fun with my fel, she was quite annoyed about interceptors, and started cheering for R2-D2 in the end-game. Next day she came home with freaking Corran Horn and literally one-shotting my Fel in our 3rd game. ;-)

 

Newb stomping is for sure not fun for new players, but neither Poe, nor Pap aces or whatever is the real problem for that. It is simply that more experience players are just using all their advantages. 

Edited by SEApocalypse

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Hmmm, scouts disadvantage is that they are only PS3. I think if you have 4+ ships with higher PS, or 3 ships with ordnance with higher PS, then you can take one scout out before being fired upon. That eliminates big chunk of damage coming your way. If they waste a focus token to evade an attack, then you just have 2/3 naked die coming at ya.

 

Redline + FCS + Cluster Missiles + EM + Chips

Jax + PTL + AT + SD

2x Black sq + Crackshot

 

Take one down first. Redline gets clusters off first (with chips, maybe 4-5dmg total vs naked green die?). Jax gets 4 die range 1 (maybe 2dmg?) + prevents focus. That leaves blackcracks for 2-3 dmg. Doable.

 

or

 

2x Dagger Squad + Proton + EM + Chips

Miranda + TLT + Plasma + EM + Chips

 

Also, higher PS ordnance. Plasma can eliminate their shields. A proton torp finishes it off with crits. A couple dagger squad Bwings can take one out by themselves with two crits from proton and chips.

 

27HP Scouts vs 25HP with a regen ship plus higher PS. Miranda eliminates shields with Plasma. Daggers finish one with Protons. Now the two Scouts left, you just have two protons coming at one of your ships. Rinse and repeat for the next round.

 

Triple Uboats will be tough, but like all lists, they have their kryptonite. Will be fun and challenging!

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The main problem is, of course, designing something that can beat them without losing to other stuff like Palpaces, the new Ghost With The Most build (4 un-avoidable hits at Range 1? Autoblaster+Accuracy Corrector+Titles), Regen Rebels, and other stuff too.

 

Of COURSE it has kryptonite. The problem is not poisoning yourself while coming up with counters.

 

35 Redline: FCS, Flechette Torpedoes, Cluster Missiles, Extra Munitions, Guidance Chips

26 Omega Leader: Juke, Comm Relay

15 Black Squadron: Crack Shot

22 Omicron Group Pilot: Electronic Baffle

 

OL's there as anti-ace tech, the Redline will erase the first ship it points at (or hose Aces with Flechettes), Crackblack is filler, and the OGC is a blocker and a lot of HP.

 

I'm also tempted by a Palpshuttle, Wampa, and Colzet, the only problem is that it is 1 point too many, meaning you have to settle for Plasma Torpedoes on Redline - also, two ships on the list fire after or simo with the JMs, not letting you nuke one before it fires.

 

Well, it all depends on what I see tomorrow. I'm pretty sure one person's gonna be there with triple Jumpmasters (unless his online order didn't come in), and I know one guy is going to be flying Palpaces because he tends to stick with what he knows.

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I really do love the idea of this list.  Three prowling lurking submarines, blasting things with TORPEDOES.  I mean, cmon.  That's justt awesome.  

 

Also, that its a hybrid list:  Half generic value turret, half ordnance alpha strike.  Bumper car galore.  

 

I think I might proxy it for a bit. 

 

Ugh.  And then there's the Ghost problem:  2 Lothal Rebels is 70 points.  SEVENTY! I could stick Biggs, astro and 2 FCS in there! 

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With that much health on the table TLTs aren't all that scary, especially since you can remove 1 of them in 1.5 turns and before it can fire a second time. 16 health per VCX mean that your quad TLT opponent needs 2 turns of having shots and perfect dice (okay, rolling at least one hit isn't hard, but with 8 shots of which 50% aren't modified its also not unlikely to complete blank at least once) without losing one of his ships to kill one of your ships.

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The game will return to a game of skill, not just having higher pilot skill and boosting with wave 8. Unless they run all green super Dash and the Super Dengar Rendar, but Kriegsmarine will put an end to those too.

Tbh I think that's somewhat wishful thinking. Super Dengar and Super Dash are large ships with boost and barrel roll. They will have just about the easiest posdible time to arc dodge the scouts. IMO, if you get a shot that's not through an obstacle with a scout on a Kanan Dash, he probably screwed up.

U-boats are a very strong list, but it's a list of PS3 ships that need to keep you in arc, which means they can be outflown. Super Dash and Dengar have an easier time than most in achieving that.

Edited by LordBlades

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The game will return to a game of skill, not just having higher pilot skill and boosting with wave 8. Unless they run all green super Dash and the Super Dengar Rendar, but Kriegsmarine will put an end to those too.

Tbh I think that's somewhat wishful thinking. Super Dengar and Super Dash are large ships with boost and barrel roll. They will have just about the easiest posdible time to arc dodge the scouts. IMO, if you get a shot that's not through an obstacle with a scout on a Kanan Dash, he probably screwed up.

U-boats are a very strong list, but it's a list of PS3 ships that need to keep you in arc, which means they can be outflown. Super Dash and Dengar have an easier time than most in achieving that.

The total shakeup is fun and Triple Torps is certainly something new to plan against.

I wish the dials weren't so generous, though. It's frustrating for me thematically that big ships and freighters (YT-2400 and Decimator included here) end up being faster than the snubfighters the game is based on, and have these great dials with almost every maneuver. The U-boat's dial is pretty sick.

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Well went to a 20+ player winter kit tournament, and of course someone brought the u boats, some brought 1 some brought 2/3. Those that brought 2/3 made top 4. My self plus many experience players with quite a few different type of lists all got smashed off the table, triple aces list and all. It's kinda hard to dodge more than maybe 2 arcs, you can with one maybe 2 aces but then the 3 one cops it and no ace can hold up for to long when they get hit by 2/3 lots of 4 hits. I put it out there now, this is the new meta. I hate to say it but until some figures out how to crack the boats reliably xwing just turned in 40k pay to win.

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The game will return to a game of skill, not just having higher pilot skill and boosting with wave 8. Unless they run all green super Dash and the Super Dengar Rendar, but Kriegsmarine will put an end to those too.

Tbh I think that's somewhat wishful thinking. Super Dengar and Super Dash are large ships with boost and barrel roll. They will have just about the easiest posdible time to arc dodge the scouts. IMO, if you get a shot that's not through an obstacle with a scout on a Kanan Dash, he probably screwed up.U-boats are a very strong list, but it's a list of PS3 ships that need to keep you in arc, which means they can be outflown. Super Dash and Dengar have an easier time than most in achieving that.
The total shakeup is fun and Triple Torps is certainly something new to plan against.I wish the dials weren't so generous, though. It's frustrating for me thematically that big ships and freighters (YT-2400 and Decimator included here) end up being faster than the snubfighters the game is based on, and have these great dials with almost every maneuver. The U-boat's dial is pretty sick.

Bigger ship, bigger engines, more mass, means faster ship in space. Also didn't we just see the falcon out fly two TIE /FOs in Awakening?

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Well went to a 20+ player winter kit tournament, and of course someone brought the u boats, some brought 1 some brought 2/3. Those that brought 2/3 made top 4. My self plus many experience players with quite a few different type of lists all got smashed off the table, triple aces list and all. It's kinda hard to dodge more than maybe 2 arcs, you can with one maybe 2 aces but then the 3 one cops it and no ace can hold up for to long when they get hit by 2/3 lots of 4 hits. I put it out there now, this is the new meta. I hate to say it but until some figures out how to crack the boats reliably xwing just turned in 40k pay to win.

Big bases with actions and arcs required for meaningful offense. Make them fly through the asteroids to get you and they won't be concentrating fire. They probably won't even all be firing torps.

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I don't really understand how 3 scouts can be called 'pay to win'...over time many top Rebel squads (fat Han and Stresshog) and more recent Imperial squads (Vader fix and Palpatine) have required the purchase of epic ships in order to run them, but now 3 scouts is pay to win?

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Yeah that's always a good plan but even when trying to do that, if the player is any good they know that's what your trying to and flys according, in the end it's not too hard for them to get at least 2 u boats shooting at 1 ship and it ain't that hard to pull it off 2 rounds in a row. Trust me I seen this happen all day to really good players and those games where over in a couple of rounds, obviously everyone will need to get those learning games under there belts.

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I don't really understand how 3 scouts can be called 'pay to win'...over time many top Rebel squads (fat Han and Stresshog) and more recent Imperial squads (Vader fix and Palpatine) have required the purchase of epic ships in order to run them, but now 3 scouts is pay to win?

Most people already had those ships and just had to get some upgrades for them to shine(at least I did) , but no one has jump masters, to run the triple uboats your buying 3 of them to run this list. Those ships needed help, the uboats are not in that category. Remember I did say until people figure out the right list and how to fly it.

By the way this list smashed 8 experience players off the board in a few rounds (about 20/30 min) and didn't lose a ship, when you play against it you'll understand what I mean

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I'm not a top player, but the way I see it, if you do what Biophysical suggested, the scout player will sooner or later have to either commit to going through the asteroid field (splitting his firepower in the process) or keep following you around the field, in which case you should catch up from behind eventually if you have aces with superior maneuverability.

EDIT: I have also built a competitive Brobots list from scratch, so I actually had to buy: 2 Aggressors, 2 B-wings (for FCS), 2 Kihraxz (for Crackshot and Glitterstim), a Firespray and an YV-666'(For HLC) and a Starviper (for Autothrusters), so I don't really feel 3 Scouts is any more Pay to Win than that for example.

Edited by LordBlades

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To be fair, we're talking about a list that was well telegraphed as being strong, but it's only been on the tables for... what, two days? I don't think it's fair to start screaming from the rooftops that nothing can beat it when nobody has really tried yet. It'll be the new hotness for a few weeks, and it'll screw a few trends in Top 4 lists for SCs, but in a month or two there'll be another variant, or a counter, or whatever. The meta grows massively quickly over the first few weeks after a release, and there's always one or two things that are immediately latched on to.

 

I'd be more interested in what they destroyed, than what they ran as. Palp-aces is a 3 ship list, one of which is massively susceptible to ordnance in general (shuttle), and another of which has the same reaction to spike damage as my better half has to frogs (Fel, generally screaming and falling apart). Ditto TLT lists littered with Ys, mid-agility regen Rebels, even Brobots. 

There's a spike damage counter to the Meta lists now. That's a good thing. It's both beatable, and forces the meta to shift on to new, exciting things. 

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Yeah that's always a good plan but even when trying to do that, if the player is any good they know that's what your trying to and flys according, in the end it's not too hard for them to get at least 2 u boats shooting at 1 ship and it ain't that hard to pull it off 2 rounds in a row. Trust me I seen this happen all day to really good players and those games where over in a couple of rounds, obviously everyone will need to get those learning games under there belts.

First few times anyone plays the list it will be rough, but once they have a few practice games, it becomes pretty obvious how you want to use obstacles in the game. If anyone is really hard up, they can use Debris Fields. 3 big fields take up an absolutely huge area, and deny the JMs their action. Offense from those ships without an action is just awful.

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The game will return to a game of skill, not just having higher pilot skill and boosting with wave 8. Unless they run all green super Dash and the Super Dengar Rendar, but Kriegsmarine will put an end to those too.

Tbh I think that's somewhat wishful thinking. Super Dengar and Super Dash are large ships with boost and barrel roll. They will have just about the easiest posdible time to arc dodge the scouts. IMO, if you get a shot that's not through an obstacle with a scout on a Kanan Dash, he probably screwed up.

U-boats are a very strong list, but it's a list of PS3 ships that need to keep you in arc, which means they can be outflown. Super Dash and Dengar have an easier time than most in achieving that.

The thing about U-Boats is that I can just shrug whenever you arc dodge me and just plink away with my primary weapon turrets. Range 1 is easy to get with q large base turret, and even without it Dash is going to die.

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the pwt is quite sh*tty, though

 

 

you're not going to be killing much of anything until after the torps are gone and you can devote all your attention into brining r4 + focus range 1 shots to bear, unless the opponent has my luck :(

 

 

in fact, the first time I won v them was precisely because I was able to exhaust their torps

 

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bam! shot one down before it fired; traded redline to do so. Inefficient point trade (38 to 33) but that was 4 torps gone.

 

 

after some fan-angling (hard to disentangle ties and large bases), the next attack opprotunity blew up a Tie and took the shields off of range 3 Inq

 

12841321_10156619563950142_7889063804209

 

 

my Tie fighter has a range 1 shot on a 1 hull Jumpy; flubs it royally (predictably) and then rolls 3 blanks on the defense

 

fortunately, the Inq isn't so sh*tty

 

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so the game boils down to just a torpless jumpmaster and the Inq

 

 

while the jump's dial and my opponent's skill made it very possible to get a rng 1 shot (Inq's stressed dial has very little surface area and there's no point flying forward to expose him to the PWT, so it's a lot of blocks made intentionally by bother players and trying to run out to a range that isn't one), the Inq had PTL (because he has to) and he just won the long, drawn out modifier war

 

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Edited by ficklegreendice

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It may sound like I'm being all doom and gloom but what getting at that it will be the new hotness, and it will be the new pay to win because it's an easy very hard hitting list, until people learn to build appropriately to deal with it and fly against it right

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