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Wildhorn

The 3 Scouts

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But when Gamma Vets are availiable Bombers will have their own way of ignoring that requirement, LRS. A Homing Missile shot with TL and Focus sould be about as good as Proton Torps with just GCs. No idea about the specific math, but when shooting Homing Missiles with just a TL I often found myself wishing for a Focus.

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With TL and Focus, you are basically concerned with how many blanks remain after a reroll. A red has a 1/4 chance of rolling a blank which goes all the way down to 1/16 once you add in rerolls. So you have a 15/16 chance of a hit on each dice.

With 4 dice that gives you a 77% chance of getting 4 hits (15^4/16^4). Protorps and Chimps with Deadeye are slightly different to calculate as to get < 4 hits you either need 2+ blanks or 2+ Focus results but a blank and a Focus are fine since Protorps and Chimps can convert one of each.

This is a little harder to calculate as you need to consider the various permutions that can give you 4 hits. These are:

4 hits

3 hits (chimps convert a blank, protorps convert an Eye)

2 hits (but only if your non hits are 1 blank and 1 eye. 2 blanks or 2 eyes will result in <4 hits)

Probability of rolling 4 hits naturally = 6.25% :(

Probability of rolling 3 hits = 25%

Probability of rolling 2 hits = 50% (but only half of these will be the magic Hit-Hit-Blank-Eye)

So overall, Protorps, Chimps and Deadeye only have a 56.25% chance of getting 4 hits so homing missile is more reliable. This is exactly what I would expect as you have to acquire both a Focus and a TL for the homing missile so I would expect the payoff to be greater too. It is also worth noting that Protorps and Chimps can never roll 0 hits, you are always guaranteed at least 1. Homing missile can generate 0 hits although it is extremely unlikely.

Protorps are also easier to pull off a Beta strike as you simply Focus and then select another target at Range 2-3. To pull off your Beta strike with homing missiles you will need to find another target at Range 3-5 to TL and then get a Focus token to achieve the same result again (either from another source or delaying your shot another turn). This means you either delay your Beta strike another turn or you have to pull it off without a Focus token which will weaken it (only 31.6% chance of 4 hits without Focus token).

So overall, LRS + HM gives a more potent alpha strike but is significantly harder to pull off a Beta strike. Protorps don't hit quite as hard on the Alpha but make for a much more reliable Beta strike.

You also need to consider what other support you have around. Any additional rerolls (such as Jonus) or Focus Tokens (Fleet Officer, Kyle Katarn) will benefit the Protorps much more than the Homing missile as the Protorps have more scope for modification. Focus tokens from external sources also allow you to take an ordnance shot if you are stressed (Stresshog, pulling a Red etc).

Overall it is very finely balanced between the 2 options (which is a good thing when you consider they are only 1 point apart). I think it will come down to personal choice in a lot of cases.

Edited by Karhedron

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Surely the easiest way to beat uboats is to deny actions?

Has everyone forgotten about the stress hog or flechette cannons/torpedoes or tactician?

They can't fire those torps if they're stressed!

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Surely the easiest way to beat uboats is to deny actions?

Has everyone forgotten about the stress hog or flechette cannons/torpedoes or tactician?

They can't fire those torps if they're stressed!

Problem with the Stresshog is that it gets of 2 stress at best, since it just dies. Thats talking about the Grey Squadron version, the Gold Squadron Pilot is never going to make an impact!

 

You will have to denie actions by blocking them, the old fashioned way.

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Surely the easiest way to beat uboats is to deny actions?

Has everyone forgotten about the stress hog or flechette cannons/torpedoes or tactician?

They can't fire those torps if they're stressed!

Problem with the Stresshog is that it gets of 2 stress at best, since it just dies. Thats talking about the Grey Squadron version, the Gold Squadron Pilot is never going to make an impact!

 

You will have to denie actions by blocking them, the old fashioned way.

Which I think can be done quite handily by a decently flown blob of 8 TIE Fighters. You lose a TIE or 2 and then the Jumpmasters simply never get another action again.

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Surely the easiest way to beat uboats is to deny actions?

Has everyone forgotten about the stress hog or flechette cannons/torpedoes or tactician?

They can't fire those torps if they're stressed!

 

Stresshog usually isn't going to be in good shape after 3 proton torpedoes!

 

It's certainly true denying them their actions can work. But it's very hard to do on the first pass. Taking their tokens (Jax/Wes/Palob) can work but not really from all at once as these guys are in different factions. Flechette torps don't work on them (too much hull), That said, if you can really load stress on that might damage them quite a lot. Triple tactician K-wings. Whisper with Mara Jade. 

 

Which I think can be done quite handily by a decently flown blob of 8 TIE Fighters. You lose a TIE or 2 and then the Jumpmasters simply never get another action again.

 

While I think the swarm might work well against them, the JM is really hard to block completely. The dial is incredible. Blocking them from turning those torps on you again, maybe. 

Edited by The Inquisitor

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It's a great dial, but it's a little predictable. If you've picked up stress somehow, you'll want some sort of forward or left turn to shed it quickly. You don't have to shed it to access the right turns, but then you're actionless for another turn, which is less than optimal for a ship firing torpedoes. Even if it has already blown it's load, so to speak, that focus token or barrel roll is key to them being effective in the mid game. 

 

That said, nothing is more fun (or frustrating for your opponent) than chaining multiple S-loops turn after turn, and if you're not stressed, it's a beautiful dial for sure.

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Our local team tested the 3 Scouts against Ghost + Raging Tycho:

Proton Torpedoes are alot stronger than Plasma Torpedoes (95% vs 74% chance to get 4 hits), the build in the video is an "old" build. The Scouts evolved to have 2 using Proton Torpedoes + a Scout built to bump into other ships.

 

Also, you can't do a 4K when you deploy the Phantom. The way deploy works is that you select a maneuver on your dial, then use that template, BUT you put the REAR guides of the ship into the template. So basically, you only choose a maneuver to select a template, you do not actually perform the exact maneuver.

 

But I love that they are using cups to roll dice. Also like the music choice for the video.

Edited by Wildhorn

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Surely the easiest way to beat uboats is to deny actions?

Has everyone forgotten about the stress hog or flechette cannons/torpedoes or tactician?

They can't fire those torps if they're stressed!

 

Stresshog usually isn't going to be in good shape after 3 proton torpedoes!

 

It's certainly true denying them their actions can work. But it's very hard to do on the first pass. Taking their tokens (Jax/Wes/Palob) can work but not really from all at once as these guys are in different factions. Flechette torps don't work on them (too much hull), That said, if you can really load stress on that might damage them quite a lot. Triple tactician K-wings. Whisper with Mara Jade. 

 

Which I think can be done quite handily by a decently flown blob of 8 TIE Fighters. You lose a TIE or 2 and then the Jumpmasters simply never get another action again.

While I think the swarm might work well against them, the JM is really hard to block completely. The dial is incredible. Blocking them from turning those torps on you again, maybe.

As long as you don't fly in formation like an idiot and instead throw a huge spread out cloud of them in front of the JM's, you should be good. There is a certain point at which you can can just intentionally bump your own TIEs and keep them all stationary and continue the bumpage.

Works pretty well against Brobots.

At 1 PS you also can bump the Bumpmaster.

Triple U-Boat kind of has to be flown close together in order to keep up the burst damage. So when a blob of 6-7 TIEs is in front of them, they'll be as much of a bump hazard to themselves as the TIEs are.

This is hypothetical of course. If the first engagement begins with the swarm player losing 3 TIEs then he's done for. If you can keep it to just losing one at most, TIE player should win. Something you would have to practice but if you keep at range 4 and then next turn do a mass 5 straight with your TIE Cloud, the JM player should be done ******.

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Triple U-Boat kind of has to be flown close together in order to keep up the burst damage. So when a blob of 6-7 TIEs is in front of them, they'll be as much of a bump hazard to themselves as the TIEs are.

 

Not really. Just need to have their target in range 2-3, this open wide where they can be.

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Triple U-Boat kind of has to be flown close together in order to keep up the burst damage. So when a blob of 6-7 TIEs is in front of them, they'll be as much of a bump hazard to themselves as the TIEs are.

Not really. Just need to have their target in range 2-3, this open wide where they can be.

ummm,no? Target needs to be range 2-3 AND in arc.

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Also, you can't do a 4K when you deploy the Phantom. The way deploy works is that you select a maneuver on your dial, then use that template, BUT you put the REAR guides of the ship into the template. So basically, you only choose a maneuver to select a template, you do not actually perform the exact maneuver.

 

 

Just sent a question to FFG to ask if it is indeed what was intended. It sure is worded that way, but I wonder if they didn't just took the same words from the part in the rulebook about executing a maneuver and forgot about the k-turn.

 

If it is indeed true that you can't do a k-turn while undocking, that would sadden me a little bit; I love doing an exit Knight Rider style.

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Triple U-Boat kind of has to be flown close together in order to keep up the burst damage. So when a blob of 6-7 TIEs is in front of them, they'll be as much of a bump hazard to themselves as the TIEs are.

Not really. Just need to have their target in range 2-3, this open wide where they can be.

ummm,no? Target needs to be range 2-3 AND in arc.

 

Was obvious the in arc, ince no need to specify. What I mean is that the scouts can come from 2 different direction and still have easy their target in their arc. They don't need to fly next to each others.

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Triple U-Boat kind of has to be flown close together in order to keep up the burst damage. So when a blob of 6-7 TIEs is in front of them, they'll be as much of a bump hazard to themselves as the TIEs are.

Not really. Just need to have their target in range 2-3, this open wide where they can be.

ummm,no? Target needs to be range 2-3 AND in arc.

 

Was obvious the in arc, ince no need to specify. What I mean is that the scouts can come from 2 different direction and still have easy their target in their arc. They don't need to fly next to each others.

 

 

Misunderstood, then sorry.

 

In any case, in order to achieve that you need several lanes of attack that would land you aiming at the same place at the same time. With smart obstacle placement that will be a problem.

Edited by LordBlades

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Proton Torpedoes are alot stronger than Plasma Torpedoes (95% vs 74% chance to get 4 hits), the build in the video is an "old" build. The Scouts evolved to have 2 using Proton Torpedoes + a Scout built to bump into other ships.

 

Also, you can't do a 4K when you deploy the Phantom. The way deploy works is that you select a maneuver on your dial, then use that template, BUT you put the REAR guides of the ship into the template. So basically, you only choose a maneuver to select a template, you do not actually perform the exact maneuver.

 

But I love that they are using cups to roll dice. Also like the music choice for the video.

The general movement rules also tell you to use the rear guides, and a K-turn explicitly states you use the front guides in stead of the rear ones. Since you can select any amneuver on the dial when you deploy, I don't see the problem, just apply the K-turn rules. Otherwise you would never be able to K-turn, S-loop or T-roll if you stick just to "rules say to use the rear guides".

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Regarsing the video: Both of us flew our lists for the first time that night and made a whole lot of mistakes :/ I played the "old" list 4 times now and have not been beaten yet. I also see the weak points in the list already. I must say the evolved list including protons and the bumpmaster looks really nice. I definetly have to test it next time.

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Sooo.... what options do Rebels have?

 

I've heard noises about Biggs+R4-D6, I've seen a 5 A-Wing list that beat several JM lists in a tournament down in Arizona, there's Cluster Missile Talas + Blount? I dunno, that last just looks shaky to me.

 

I don't play Rebels, but I would like to know what opposition players are bringing so I can account for their lists too.

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Sooo.... what options do Rebels have?

 

I've heard noises about Biggs+R4-D6, I've seen a 5 A-Wing list that beat several JM lists in a tournament down in Arizona, there's Cluster Missile Talas + Blount? I dunno, that last just looks shaky to me.

 

I don't play Rebels, but I would like to know what opposition players are bringing so I can account for their lists too.

 

Still hard to say. Biggs with the little droid that cancels excess hit results is solid. I think that cheap Ghosts are solid also, if you can manage to keep your arc. Before this we saw a lot of K-Wings, TLT Y-Wings and some X-Wings, and lots of those boys have weak game vs. triple salvo action.

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Wes Janson for stripping Focus tokens is another promising option. T70s and A-wings for arc dodging shenanigens might be fun. Ello Asty and Blue Ace both have moevement options that will help them to be where your opponent's arc is not. Chuck on autothrusters and you won't have too much to worry about from the PWTs and you should be good.

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I highly recomend everyone run out and buy 3 U boats ASAP!

 

Fun list lol.

 

I find that you can also do crazy blocking and going predator and Anti pursuit lasers with maybe intel agent is fun too.

 

the 2 turret primary inst bad when everyone charges in and is at range 1.  Use your big butts to give out action denial and enemy ships start popping.

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I played the 3 torp boat list in the top 4 yesterday and creamed it.

 

My list was:

1 Plasma variation of the torp boat

2 x Trandoshan slavers. 1 with Zuckuss K4. The other with boba greedo K4

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I took a 3 jumpmaster build and in the end got beat by this:

Anti Torp list (100)

Biggs Darklighter (26) - X-Wing

R4-D6 (1), Integrated Astromech (0)

Ello Asty (37) - T-70 X-Wing

Draw Their Fire (1), R2-D2 (4), Autothrusters (2)

Poe Dameron (37) - T-70 X-Wing

Veteran Instincts (1), R5-P9 (3), Autothrusters (2)

Fun game though!

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So, I had a plan for my first engagement with the Triple Scouts. I really did. My Palp Aces (ft. VI Vader and OL) were gonna split up and cause them to either open a flank or split their shots.

 

I placed the asteroids in such a way that the opponent set up on the left side of the board, and, for some reason, I set my list close-ish together, thinking I'd have better luck coming on on their bad side.

 

... I lost Vader in the first round of combat, OL in the second, and the shuttle in the fourth. Zilch points on my part.

 

I... I had a plan! But 4th round in the tournament, I guess I wasn't in the right headspace. It was a very demoralizing loss, only made better that my previous two matches were 100 to 0 in my favor.

 

Bah. 

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Also, you can't do a 4K when you deploy the Phantom. The way deploy works is that you select a maneuver on your dial, then use that template, BUT you put the REAR guides of the ship into the template. So basically, you only choose a maneuver to select a template, you do not actually perform the exact maneuver.

We got an email clarification for that one: you can do a 4K while undocking (or any K-Turn/Sloop coming out of the Gonzati). The RRG uses the same wording of "rear guides", but in both cases the wording on the K-Turn/Sloop supercedes it and instructs you to insert the front guides. RAW (but from multiple entries in the RRG) and RAI you can K-Turn out of docking.

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