Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Wildhorn

The 3 Scouts

Recommended Posts

Fat RAC? Yea... I'll bring my Kanan w/Recon Spec, FCS and Dorsal turret. I'll have Jan riding shotgun, away from Fat old RAC then see how a decimator likes 6 dice with TL/Focus from my back or front arc.

You have to have the ghost title and also be running an attack shuttle with phantom title to be able to shoot out the back arc.  Otherwise you just have front arc or turret.  The 2 dice turret is underwhelming unless you have the 2 titles but they you may not enough ships to complete the job anyway.

 

It could go either way between these guys depending on who is flying them and how well they do so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

Kanan with TLT, FCS, 3PO and Lando, with a docked phantom, would absolutely rinse the Admiral.

 

 

C3PO doesn't work on ghost 90% of the time because you make no roll. No roll-no trigger.

 

 

C3P0 triggers every time the Ghost Landos as an action.

 

 

Crazy I've never realized that synergy before.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Fat RAC tears the Ghost in any configuration a new one

 

I'd give it to the Ghost, actually...

 

Kanan with TLT, FCS, 3PO and Lando, with a docked phantom, would absolutely rinse the Admiral.

 

1 Damage output better when out of arc (3 tlt shots with FCS vs pwt)

2 Big spike when in arc (4-5 red & 1 TLT)

3 You're getting an evade action every round, plus a decent chance of 2 if needed.

4 Kanan will be nerfing the deci every few rounds for the lolz - those rounds will be 3 nailed-on damage vs maybe 1, out of arc. In arc things get worse for the deci.

5 even if the deci finds the sweet spot of range one out of both arcs, chances are good Kanan can nerf down to a 3 attack.

5 K-turn to win the joust and keep the arc.

 

And gets OWNED by a solo ace that comes with RAC. because single TLT doesn't scare any AT user.

C3PO doesn't work on ghost 90% of the time because you make no roll. No roll-no trigger.

Joust? Jousting with a PWT? No, really? like REALLY?

And yeah, what kanan? Rebel captive says "LOL"

 

It was a straight fight between the two - no need to change the parameters of the example, is there? ghost has a wingman too, ofc.

 

3po works fine, read the faq sometime.

 

No need to joust, as the ghost's turret is better than the deci's, straight up. IF in arc, the ghost gets even nastier, that's all.

 

As for rebel captive, well, the FCS ensures that every attack is modified, even if splattered in stress tokens.

 

So, as I said, Ghost owns Chirp 1-on-1.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

 

Kanan with TLT, FCS, 3PO and Lando, with a docked phantom, would absolutely rinse the Admiral.

 

 

C3PO doesn't work on ghost 90% of the time because you make no roll. No roll-no trigger.

 

 

C3P0 triggers every time the Ghost Landos as an action.

 

 

Crazy I've never realized that synergy before.

 

 

it's not a good synergy, though

 

6 points for an evade and maybe two or focus/evade if you're lucky

 

at that point, you can cut out the middle man with your normal action +r2d2 (crew)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And gets OWNED by a solo ace that comes with RAC. because single TLT doesn't scare any AT user.

C3PO doesn't work on ghost 90% of the time because you make no roll. No roll-no trigger.

Joust? Jousting with a PWT? No, really? like REALLY?

And yeah, what kanan? Rebel captive says "LOL"

 

 

 

Your ace isn't going to dodge 3 TLT shots a round. Not with FCS backing that TLT up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

*sigh* You do realize that I was discussing the merits of a split Deci list? Fat Deci is about as dead against Triple U-Boats as Fat Han would be. 32 HP for the u-boats to burn through is a bit better than say 20-21.

 

Between two Decis, one with Vader/Gunner and one with RAC, do you really think a Ghost would last all THAT long? Especially if it's a Ghost with Title/Shuttle, the bare minimum for the combo you speak of (TLT+FCS+Kanaan+Zeb in Shuttle) is 64 points, not much room for further upgrades + a wingman, and who wants Zeb in the shuttle anyway?

 

I actually am considering... this.

 

53 Rear Admiral Chiraneau: Predator, Fleet Officer, Moff Jerrjerrod

24 (TIE Bomber) Gamma Squadron: Extra Munitions, Plasma Torpedoes, Guidance Chips

24 (TIE Bomber) Gamma Squadron: Extra Munitions, Plasma Torpedoes, Guidance Chips

 

RAC gives the Gammas the focus they need to make Torps really lethal, while using Jerry and the Fleet Officer as anti-Crit fodder - and being action-independent for early pain damage with Predator+RAC's ability. Alternately, dropping Predator and Jerry gives Engine Upgrade+VI (or upgrades one Gamma to Proton Torps). It's still a lot of HP to burn through, and could in theory kill a U-Boat before it gets a torp off - or force it to burn its focus to survive, which amounts to the same thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

have yet to face them (not in stores yet in Spain), ideas for a list...

Core:

The Inquisitor (25)

Push the Limit (3)

Autothrusters (2)

TIE/v1 (1)

Captain Yorr (24)

Mara Jade (3)

Tactical Jammer (1)

Inquisitor flanks.

Captain + Tactical Jammer to protect the real hammer of the list. Mara Jade to make them pay for blocking/coming your way, 'cause PS4 shoots first and his abbility allows for unexpected k-turn with actions if traped. Two options on the hammer front:

"Echo" (30)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Fire-Control System (2)

Recon Specialist (3)

Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Darth Vader (29)

Push the Limit (3)

Proton Rockets (3)

Advanced Targeting Computer (1)

Engine Upgrade (4)

TIE/x1 (0)

Thoughts?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is the Ghost any good in this matchup? Slam into them with Chopper possibly making them predictable with that dial. Equip the Autoblaster Turret and Accuracy Corrector. Double tapping with Phantom. The 5k turn. 16 points to chew through. I haven't run the Ghost yet but it jumped out as something I'd want throw at the triple scout list.

 

BTW does the triple scout list have a nickname yet?

Triple U-boat.

 

I prefer "triple toilet seat".

"Wolfpack"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

And gets OWNED by a solo ace that comes with RAC. because single TLT doesn't scare any AT user.

C3PO doesn't work on ghost 90% of the time because you make no roll. No roll-no trigger.

Joust? Jousting with a PWT? No, really? like REALLY?

And yeah, what kanan? Rebel captive says "LOL"

Your ace isn't going to dodge 3 TLT shots a round. Not with FCS backing that TLT up.

The only TLT an ace is afraid of is Drea Rental with smiley droid.

The rest don't go through, and I'm not even mentioning PS7 cap and R1 donut hole.

That's easily exploited at R1 due to large base being longer than small one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If the OP is still involved, I think the title should be changed to "Beating the Three Scouts".

 

But speaking of Whisper, I think he has potential. Fully tokened up he's one of the few models that can reliably generate 4 evades to sneer at a torp hit, and if he's the last man standing he'd laugh at 2-dice PWTs all day long. However, I do think that Intelligence Agent is the best use of his Crew slot, as the JMs are unpredictable, your goal is to stay alive and not get blocked, and as Battletech players say, "Information is ammunition."

 

So I have to retract my statement about fat Decis no longer being viable... instead, it's a torpedo magnet to remove all those munitions from the U-boats so Whisper can dance around all day, shooting them. So it has to be nasty enough to get their attention and draw 4 torpedo hits. That means RAC+Predator, which thankfully is a good partner for Whisper to begin with. Oicunn+Predator+Gunner is also possible, but the goal here is to make them spend their torpedoes on the Deci, not prevent them from shooting.

 

Whisper+ACD+VI+FCS+IA is 40 points, RAC+Predator is 49 points... that leaves 11 points for a lot of upgrades to the Deci. I don't think Isard is good value, not in a meta where the Deci can go from full health to under half in a single round - it'd equal one whole HP instead of spreading across several turns for multiple HP. Rebel Captive+Mara Jade seems good to give the Deci a round of respite from firing to deal more damage, and Engine Upgrade is mandatory IMHO.

 

Any dissenting thoughts?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

However, I do think that Intelligence Agent is the best use of his Crew slot, as the JMs are unpredictable, your goal is to stay alive and not get blocked, and as Battletech players say, "Information is ammunition."

 

Any dissenting thoughts?

J3K moves at PS3, Whisper moves at PS9... no need for Intelligence Agent. 

 

And Whisper gonna die from Feedback Array on the bumpmaster.

Edited by Wildhorn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know I've gamed out scenarios where I might send in one wave to draw out torpedoes. I could see sending a bunch of TIE Fighters in front of a closer to encourage torpedo usage. They'll do damage, and are pretty resistant to the 2-dice primary in return. Either the JM5Ks dump torps and end up fighting, say, Whisper with crap primary weapons, or they're letting the TIE Fighters pick on them for a while.

Edited by Biophysical

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

However, I do think that Intelligence Agent is the best use of his Crew slot, as the JMs are unpredictable, your goal is to stay alive and not get blocked, and as Battletech players say, "Information is ammunition."

 

Any dissenting thoughts?

J3K moves at PS3, Whisper moves at PS9... no need for Intelligence Agent.

 

And Whisper gonna die from Feedback Array on the bumpmaster.

 

whisper's decloak is ERRATA'd long ago, mate...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

However, I do think that Intelligence Agent is the best use of his Crew slot, as the JMs are unpredictable, your goal is to stay alive and not get blocked, and as Battletech players say, "Information is ammunition."

 

Any dissenting thoughts?

J3K moves at PS3, Whisper moves at PS9... no need for Intelligence Agent.

 

And Whisper gonna die from Feedback Array on the bumpmaster.

 

whisper's decloak is ERRATA'd long ago, mate...

 

 

Yeah I know, didn't think at all about the decloak (silly me, it is the main thing of the ship) but was thinking about the barrel roll after the maneuver.

Edited by Wildhorn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

*sigh* You do realize that I was discussing the merits of a split Deci list? Fat Deci is about as dead against Triple U-Boats as Fat Han would be. 32 HP for the u-boats to burn through is a bit better than say 20-21.

 

Between two Decis, one with Vader/Gunner and one with RAC, do you really think a Ghost would last all THAT long? Especially if it's a Ghost with Title/Shuttle, the bare minimum for the combo you speak of (TLT+FCS+Kanaan+Zeb in Shuttle) is 64 points, not much room for further upgrades + a wingman, and who wants Zeb in the shuttle anyway?

 

I actually am considering... this.

 

53 Rear Admiral Chiraneau: Predator, Fleet Officer, Moff Jerrjerrod

24 (TIE Bomber) Gamma Squadron: Extra Munitions, Plasma Torpedoes, Guidance Chips

24 (TIE Bomber) Gamma Squadron: Extra Munitions, Plasma Torpedoes, Guidance Chips

 

RAC gives the Gammas the focus they need to make Torps really lethal, while using Jerry and the Fleet Officer as anti-Crit fodder - and being action-independent for early pain damage with Predator+RAC's ability. Alternately, dropping Predator and Jerry gives Engine Upgrade+VI (or upgrades one Gamma to Proton Torps). It's still a lot of HP to burn through, and could in theory kill a U-Boat before it gets a torp off - or force it to burn its focus to survive, which amounts to the same thing.

 

This only works if your opponent doesn't mind your 101 point list!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

recommended fix: make contracted scout unique

after everyone bought 3? lmao

 

 

Yeah, it would not be a very customer friendly maneuver...making Deadeye unique, as suggested above, would also work.

 

If a fix turns out to be warranted, this would be an elegant and straightforward one to make.

 

I know it seems a little early to be dodging shards of skyfall here, but:

  • The Contracted Scout is clearly underpriced.  As a thought experiment, put a hull upgrade on it and compare it to a Fringer.  It has the same hit points, and is two points cheaper (28 vs 30) and strikingly better (higher PS, better dial, more/better upgrade slots). 

The Fringer's stat line is worth about 21 points, according to me*. (MJ's jousting value 2.0 puts it at about 19 points.) That's without considering the turret, which is certainly worth something, but doesn't close the sizeable gap. So comparing the two doesn't really work unless you start by spotting the Fringer at least a few points.

I think the actual problem is the synergy between Deadeye and R4 Agromech. It gives the ship a lot of power when firing ordnance (although not otherwise), which means we have a fairly novel thing in X-wing: missiles and torpedoes that actually matter when they're fired. It's an early damage spike with flexible targeting, and there just aren't a lot of ways to do that. If the Contracted Scout lacked either the EPT or the Scum 'mech slot, I don't think we'd be having this conversation.

*A more objective and reliable tool for answering this question should be forthcoming by the fall!

 

  • Over the last month Triple Scout has been absolutely wreaking face on Vassal. Every other room is featuring one. I saw a K-Wing evaporate in one round of fire last night. The Vassal crew has generally been pretty good about predicting the OTB competitive meta.

I'm aware of that, and it does worry me (but see below).

 

I'm not sure how true it is, but I've heard a rumor that the last version playtesters saw was at 27 points.  While that's not a significant cost for 1, it certainly would make three look very different.  They'd be giving up accuracy or shots at the very least.

As I mentioned in another thread... yesterday?... the problem with this kind of rumor is that the first rule of NDA club is often "don't talk about NDA Club." So if there's anything inaccurate about the rumor, nobody is in a position to correct it.  

 

Let's check back in on this point after Regional Season and see if you still agree!

This is absolutely the smart approach.

 

I personally fail to see how a 25-point ship with unparalleled versatility can be considered balanced against, say, the 30-50 points of TIE/fo fighter you get in the Force Awakens boxed set.

 

I'm not trying to rant; I have a different viewpoint than most.

Yes: your viewpoint is "person who dislikes the game so much he quit playing," which is substantially different from "person who likes the game enough to worry about its long-term health."

 

The new hotness always blindsides people at the first few events after release. BroBots, PalpAces and Quad-TLTs all stomped their way to easy wins just after their initial release, and they've all since settled down to be just another strong list to play with and against. 

 

Everyone needs to calm down and be patient. Right now people are looking to try the new hotness and no-one outside Vassal users (which is an extremely small portion of the player base) have any experience fighting them. If the Wolf Pack is still dominating in 2-3 months time, we might have a problem, but it's too early to say one way or the other right now.

Vassal players have their own metagame, just like any other "region." In my observation (which is admittedly a little out of date), it changes more quickly than the tabletop meta, and it has a much greater focus on the brand-new. It also communicates more thoroughly, which means trends spring up and die out more quickly. It is a good advance predictor of the national tabletop metagame, but it's far from perfect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

However, I do think that Intelligence Agent is the best use of his Crew slot, as the JMs are unpredictable, your goal is to stay alive and not get blocked, and as Battletech players say, "Information is ammunition."

 

Any dissenting thoughts?

J3K moves at PS3, Whisper moves at PS9... no need for Intelligence Agent. 

 

And Whisper gonna die from Feedback Array on the bumpmaster.

 

And that's why the Intelligence Agent - you NEED to avoid that bumpmaster. Or if there's one on the list, make it THE priority target while the Deci's still alive.

 

I'm not saying it's an auto-win list, mate; but flown well it could crush the standard Triple U-Boats, beat the Bumpmaster version, and still pull all the regular wins it could before U-boats dropped.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

*sigh* You do realize that I was discussing the merits of a split Deci list? Fat Deci is about as dead against Triple U-Boats as Fat Han would be. 32 HP for the u-boats to burn through is a bit better than say 20-21.

 

Between two Decis, one with Vader/Gunner and one with RAC, do you really think a Ghost would last all THAT long? Especially if it's a Ghost with Title/Shuttle, the bare minimum for the combo you speak of (TLT+FCS+Kanaan+Zeb in Shuttle) is 64 points, not much room for further upgrades + a wingman, and who wants Zeb in the shuttle anyway?

 

I actually am considering... this.

 

53 Rear Admiral Chiraneau: Predator, Fleet Officer, Moff Jerrjerrod

24 (TIE Bomber) Gamma Squadron: Extra Munitions, Plasma Torpedoes, Guidance Chips

24 (TIE Bomber) Gamma Squadron: Extra Munitions, Plasma Torpedoes, Guidance Chips

 

RAC gives the Gammas the focus they need to make Torps really lethal, while using Jerry and the Fleet Officer as anti-Crit fodder - and being action-independent for early pain damage with Predator+RAC's ability. Alternately, dropping Predator and Jerry gives Engine Upgrade+VI (or upgrades one Gamma to Proton Torps). It's still a lot of HP to burn through, and could in theory kill a U-Boat before it gets a torp off - or force it to burn its focus to survive, which amounts to the same thing.

 

This only works if your opponent doesn't mind your 101 point list!

 

The Gamma Squadrons should only be 23 points (18+2+3+0), which is okay, as the Deci listed is 54 points, not 53. Transcription error, not math error. :P

 

Dropping Moff Jerry does let you upgrade to Protons, though... decisions, decisions, ignore crits and get a use out of the Fleet Officer after the Gammas die, or make the alpha strike stronger?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

However, I do think that Intelligence Agent is the best use of his Crew slot, as the JMs are unpredictable, your goal is to stay alive and not get blocked, and as Battletech players say, "Information is ammunition."

 

Any dissenting thoughts?

J3K moves at PS3, Whisper moves at PS9... no need for Intelligence Agent. 

 

And Whisper gonna die from Feedback Array on the bumpmaster.

 

And that's why the Intelligence Agent - you NEED to avoid that bumpmaster. Or if there's one on the list, make it THE priority target while the Deci's still alive.

 

I'm not saying it's an auto-win list, mate; but flown well it could crush the standard Triple U-Boats, beat the Bumpmaster version, and still pull all the regular wins it could before U-boats dropped.

 

But the Bumpmaster also has it... so he knows that you know ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But who has the more open, unpredictable dial: the bumpmaster, or a decloaking phantom? Specifically, you decloak AFTER intelligence agents are used, so it's gonna give the edge to the phantom.

 

I still need to table test this list, I won't lie; my focus for anti-JM was on out Alpha striking with Redline +... other things to make a 4-ship list. Still not sure, but Redline's the foundation.

 

Still, the theory behind Whisper+RAC is sound, and if it didn't cut RL down to a 3-ship build then it'd be a great wingmate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It has to be 3 or higher to change a blank to a crit. Anything below that changes it to a hit instead. It still benefits from it (it'd be a hell of a strange thing to include in the pack if it didn't), but ships like X-wings and B-wings get a little bit more from it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...