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Firespray-32

Dual Cards and the X-Wing Fix

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Imperials are the only faction whose fixes define the meta. Imperials have their wants and desires catered to. That's why we need a good X-Wing fix.

That's why the current meta is full of stress hogs (so imperial) brobots (yes, imperial) and lots of ps10 Poe. (Another imperial)

Yeah that was sarcasm, just in case.

How can you say that imperials get all the fancy stuff when any ship released for that faction sucks at the beginning and doesn't see play needing a later fix?

Take the Punisher. Do you see it on the tables ? Here in Europe we don't.

Bombers? Nay. Defenders? We all wait for imperial Vets and I still doubt that it will have such great effect on the meta.

The only advanced that sees the tables is Vader.

Only interceptor is Fel.

The imperial Firespray has vanished, while Scum Boba + VI is all over the place.

Only some brave use the Phantom with some cunning ideas but most of the time they can't win more than a couple of matches.

Yeah the imperials define the meta.

 

Ive seen the punisher, its not popular and making top tables, but people are finding uses for it, and good players are trying to find a way for it to fit.  redline and deathrain are sick with ordnance.

 

bombers die so easily that they needed a boost to make them capable of getting their ordnance off, and with guidance chips they will soon become (or should become) a regular part of lists.

 

the defenders did need a fix, although 2 very good fixes Im not sure.  I do like what they are receiving though.

 

ever heard of ACDC?   4 advanced with accuracy corrector and dark curse?  its an amazing list that easily bests 4BZ.  great defense with an extremely solid offense.

 

I see a ton of interceptors not soontir in lists now.  Bringing omega Leader gave a solid fighter for cheap, and in my area people are enjoying the action denial capabilities of different imp ships.  Carnor Jax in particular is seeing a lot of play.  Turr phenir is also making appearances, to great effect also.

 

yes, the imperial firespray isnt popular, but honestly its a scum ship shoehorned into the imperials to get it on the table and into the game at the time.

 

in my local meta the phantom is still a regular staple in imperial lists.

 

maybe play vassal and see the crazy amount of play these ships get that you say arent used.  and maybe your local meta needs to explore something outside of the net lists on these forums.

 

the imperials DO define the meta.  i know the imperials arent the most popular faction, but every change to the game (except TLT) is because of an upgrade the imperials got in either ship or upgrade card.  turrets are a response to imperial aces, 4BZ is a response to TIE swarms, stress is a response to imperial aces. TLT popularity is a response to soontirs invincability

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2 Different Idea then

Dual Card Title

T-65 X-Wing Only 1 point (Actually I think it would be better as a 2 point card)

Rogue Squadron

When Attacking treat all Range 2 shots at Range 1

 

Wraith Squadron

After Acquiring or Spending a target lock you may take a free Barrel Roll action

 

 

Dual Card Title

T-65 X-Wing Only  1 point

Full Throttle

After you perform a straight maneuver you may perform a free boost action

Action: Flip this card over

 

Attack Position

You do not need to discard focus tokens after you spend them

Action: Flip this card over

Edited by Tailsgod

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Indeed, Luke even says 'go in full throttle', which I'm assuming means 'go in full throttle', not 'go in not full throttle'.

Full throttle makes in this context absolute sense even when s-foils in attack position would reduce your speed. Not that using full-throttle itself makes sense for flying into a trench with little to no space to evade and … let's not get this into a rant, but the whole attack run was kind of suicidal  when diving for the exhaust port would have been so much better. 

 

Still full throttle does not mean that there can not be different configurations which are faster. 

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Indeed, Luke even says 'go in full throttle', which I'm assuming means 'go in full throttle', not 'go in not full throttle'.

Full throttle makes in this context absolute sense even when s-foils in attack position would reduce your speed. Not that using full-throttle itself makes sense for flying into a trench with little to no space to evade and … let's not get this into a rant, but the whole attack run was kind of suicidal  when diving for the exhaust port would have been so much better. 

Imagine that DS is covered in interlocking turrets

and trench has but a couple of them, and you don't have a sphere to control, where you can get swarmed by TIEs

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While adding nothing to the dual card issue, the battle plan called for Y-wings to make the trench run. Hopefully at least a couple of the S3 models.

They are the bombers of the rebel alliance, the X-wings were the dogfighters so it makes sense

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I totally agree. Hopefully I didn't come across as sarcastic. That was the farthest thing from my intention.  I love flying X wings and TIEs. Now if FFG would bring out some Scum uglies at about 10-12pts. Y-Tie and Tie-Wings for the hilarity.

That would be awesome, but their dials would be really screwed up.

 

I know I'm in the minority, but I'd love some Scum Uglies. Make 'em worse & cheaper than TIEs or Z-95s so you just run them in big fragile swarms.

 

With Scyks that should have been cheaper than TIE/Ln and FFG stating that 12pts is the bottom line 

we won't see the uglies :C

E-wing is ugly but not an 'Ugly'

 

Cheaper as a TIE they would out-swarm the dedicated swarm craft of this game. You cannot have a ship cheaper then 12 in this game, the Point system is build this way.

Then, even if we get a ~10pt ship with something like 1/1-2/2-3/0 and crappy dials, how much fun would the game be? The ship more or less only can be used for Bumperwing, and if you have several of them, it is a bit like Skaven or Goblins, the game gets incredibly slow and tedious as there so many cheap useless units flooding the board (and bumping around), but all have to be assigned a dial and have to be moved. Higher risk that these matches just go to time.

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Dual Card for T-65 X-Foils

 

Cost 0-2

 

T-65 only

 

Action: Flip this card.

 

A-side:

Something that helps attack: e.g. defensers cannot use a RB3 defensive bonus; you may rotate one of your blanks to a focus...

 

B-side:

Something that helps maneauverability: e.g. K-Turn gets white; somehow lets you rotate to a 1 hard turn; after executing maneauver X you may take a free barrel roll... something like that

or defense: e.g. get the effect of autothrusters; add i agility vs attacks at RB3...

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considering there are several X-wing pilots without EPT and the X-wing has no generic with an EPT slot I think you will find Biggs has just been pushed further back from the table championship. 

 

A 0 point EPT now makes the EPT slot that much valuable and no ship should have an empty EPT slot. I think adaptability may have accidentally introduced some serious power creep to the Ace wing meta and pilots like Fel's Wrath, Kir Kanos, Horton Salm, and any ship without an EPT that isn't a filler like Academy pilot out of the competitive picture.

How many ships with ept's were you running empty before? Because all adaptability doesis give another option for the ept slot, and in the mid PS level the single PA increase is most likely not going to be worth the cost of the ept slot on the ship, my guess is you will be running a muchore valuable ept the adaptability. You do realize you pay for that ept slot right? Tossing in adaptability is not free, the cost of the ept slot was still paid for. Please point me to a list running empty ept slots that just got boosted by adaptability, hell point me at a single ship other then high PS aces that got boosted from adaptability, who was running a naked ept before? Anyone?

The fact that there is a cheap droid that now adds an ept and a flexible hit point with integrated helps all those lower PS x-wing.

 

 

Quite a few actually. There has been many times I had 2 ept slots and only have 1 point left (unless I'm netlisting). That being said rookie and red squadron now have been thrown out while red veteran (T-70) got a considerable boost in power. As this is NOT a uniform power increase across all ships. The T-70 only has 2 pilots (out of 6) without an EPT while the X-wing has several pilots without EPTs.

 

Yeah a 0 EPT gave a power boost the the X-wing but it is the T-70 not the T-65. The EPT slot one of the most powerful upgrade slots in the game did not really need this much help.

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Why do I feel that unless FFG releases a card that's actually titled "T-65 X-Wing Fix" that no one will ever believe that anything they do is an actual "fix" for it?

Because the TIE Advanced got a -4 point systems slot? Or because TIE Defenders are getting a title that, for free, lets them perform a cannon attack and then a primary weapon attack? Or how about when TIE Interceptors get two mod slots? Those are fixes. The job of a fix is to take a ship that performs poorly for the points or is underused and give players a reason to use it. Imperial ships that are overcosted/underused and get fixes get it right first try. 

 

The best fix Rebels have gotten is A-Wing test pilot. Guess what? A-Wings still suck. Rebel Transport was supposed to fix the X-Wing, and it didnt. Rebel Aces was supposed to "fix" the B-Wing, and it didn't. HWKs have never gotten fixed. E-Wings have never gotten fixed. 

 

The real best "Fix" Rebels have received is TLT, and that was never MEANT to be a fix. 

 

This is why when i see people say that "Rebels have it easy" im not sure whether i'm angry or disappointed in them. TIE Swarm has existed since Wave 1, and people still bring it to tournaments and do very well with it. 3 Interceptors is still stupid good. Palp on a thing plus 2 things consistently wins tournaments. 4 TIE Advanceds are straight up broken. Coming soon is 3 Defenders with tractors and ions which will invalidate most rebel squads that havent already been forced out by the current Imperial meta. Face it; The only thing Rebels can do now that Imperials can't do is regen, and who gives a crap when 2 attacks + palp are guaranteed to roll 3 damage every single time, or when you can make 6-7 attacks a turn, and because your ships turtle tokens, have stupid agility, arc dodge like mad, and can stop my ships from straight up just modifying my dice, i can't dodge your hits and you always dodge mine? Like ****, one of your ships was so broken on launch that it had to be nerfed because it broke the meta. And guess what? It's still ridiculously strong. I see it at every tournament, usually in the cut.

 

Imperials are the only faction whose fixes define the meta. Imperials have their wants and desires catered to. That's why we need a good X-Wing fix.

About ******* time someone told those whining little brats where they stand! Quality post!

And so true, imperials cry so much, and yet, have some of the best ships in the game

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I think that's going to be the tricky part. By putting "X-Wing" in the name of the T-70 they've guaranteed that anything that might fix the T-65 will make the 70 that much better, without tricky wording like "X-Wings without T-70" or something.

 

Easily done, the card just need "if your action bar doesn't have the boost action" to eliminate the T70 from the upgrade/fix...

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This thread seems to be expecting so much more from a dual upgrade card than we know it can currently to.

 

At present it appears a Dual Upgrade is going to go in one slot and cost the same where you simply choose what side to use when you deploy.

 

Things this thread seems to want a dual upgrade to do:

1.  Enable other upgrades.  NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!  No point in having choices if you can't use choices without adding other things as well.

 

2.  FLIP/FLOP/FLIP/FLOP.  Maybe this could become a thing but changing the active side during a game may get confusing and also kind of conflicts with the tournament rules where flip and remove is used to replace discard.

 

3.  Be T-65 specific.  This one may be difficult simply because of how ship types seems to be working.  

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This thread seems to be expecting so much more from a dual upgrade card than we know it can currently to.

 

At present it appears a Dual Upgrade is going to go in one slot and cost the same where you simply choose what side to use when you deploy.

 

Things this thread seems to want a dual upgrade to do:

1.  Enable other upgrades.  NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!  No point in having choices if you can't use choices without adding other things as well.

 

2.  FLIP/FLOP/FLIP/FLOP.  Maybe this could become a thing but changing the active side during a game may get confusing and also kind of conflicts with the tournament rules where flip and remove is used to replace discard.

 

3.  Be T-65 specific.  This one may be difficult simply because of how ship types seems to be working.  

 

As you said its what ppl want it to be. So maybe FFG just underdelivered on the possibility of this mechanics/card type. It's still possible to change though and i think earlier or later we will get in game flip-flops.

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Side note
The way to keep it from being t-70

Rebel-X-wing Only (T-70 is resistance)
 

Secondly the dual upgrade cards are cool, but I agree flip flopping side to side could get ridiculous. if it is possible it should only be for a select few cards and should cost an action to do, that way there isn't any confusion on when its what. Its one side until an action says otherwise

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Well if we're thinking up 'Dual cards' tailored to the X-Wing. I think it could be nice to have the long sought after reposition actions for the card.

 

Title - X-Wing Veteran - 2pts

 

Dual Card. 

 

Add the Boost action to your Action bar. 

If you perform a Boost Action flip this card over. 

 

-- flipped --

 

Dual Card.

 

Add the Barrel Roll Action to your Action bar. 

If you perform a Barrel Roll Action flip this card over. 

 

---

Not sure if it should have a 'Built-in PTL' Function. But that would be wishing and wanting to much. Maybe if it were an EPT then maybe... but then it wouldn't 'fix fix' the X-Wing since not all X-Wings have access to EPTs. 

But if there would be a corresponding EPT nearly mirroring the above it would probably look like this. 

 

EPT - Expert Maneuvers - 4pts

Dual Card.

Add Boost to your Action Bar.

If you perform a Boost Action you may perform a free action on your Action bar or a free Barrel Roll. 

Then receive 1 Stress Token and Flip this card. 

 

The reverse would swap the wording of Barrel Roll and Boost. 

 

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I think a T-65 Prototype dual title card could be interesting.

1 point card

on one side - Updated engines, your action Bar gains the boost icon

on the other - Updated Shield Generator, You gain 1 shield.


Your aces can now get repositioning and autothrusters if you pay, your low PS jousters are a little beefier.

 

Luke + R2D2 + VI + UE + AT  - 36 points. That's a pretty fair comp to Poe at 38 points.

 

Rookie + R2 + USG + IA - 23 points

 

 

For the record, I think the T-65 is back to playable just with IA. So although it wouldn't be necessary, it would do a lot to help the X-Wing keep up with the incoming changes. I certainly wouldn't be opposed to see the Kihraxz get something similar as well.  This game benefits from having robust jousters available.

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(Haven't read the whole thread but did a search and haven't seen these words yet)

 

Dual Upgrade Card:

 

Side 1

Linked Fire (or Quad Fire)

When attacking an enemy with agility of 1 or less, roll an additional attack die.

 

Side 2

Stutter-Fire

When attacking an enemy with agility of 3 or higher, roll an additional attack die.

 

Cost?

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2.  FLIP/FLOP/FLIP/FLOP.  Maybe this could become a thing but changing the active side during a game may get confusing and also kind of conflicts with the tournament rules where flip and remove is used to replace discard.

 

That' s not a difference. All discarding an upgrade ever does is flip it over.

 

RRG, pg. 20

"When an Upgrade card is discarded, it is flipped
facedown. The card is out of play for all purposes
except when determining the total squad point
cost of the ship to which it was equipped. If an
Upgrade card is flipped faceup by a game effect,
it returns to play equipped to the same ship."

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It's a shame that their newest 1pt Droid didn't work properly with it (discardable, when IA depends on discarding? Eeesh, even if the card itself is neat!), and that Targeting Astromech ended up being a rubbish Outlaw Tech when everyone was praying for a rubbish K4 or even a rubbish FCS. (Let's face it, when looking at astromechs the only thing not 'rubbish' is regen, heh), so that the baseline ship didn't have a couple more interesting options.

 

 

I was disappointed that it was a one shot and that it was a unique.

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2.  FLIP/FLOP/FLIP/FLOP.  Maybe this could become a thing but changing the active side during a game may get confusing and also kind of conflicts with the tournament rules where flip and remove is used to replace discard.

 

That' s not a difference. All discarding an upgrade ever does is flip it over.

 

RRG, pg. 20

"When an Upgrade card is discarded, it is flipped
facedown. The card is out of play for all purposes
except when determining the total squad point
cost of the ship to which it was equipped. If an
Upgrade card is flipped faceup by a game effect,
it returns to play equipped to the same ship."

 

 

But dual upgrades have no "face-down" so discarding it could appear to do nothing especially if you're already allowing it to easily change which state is currently face-up.

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I'd like a release that has more than just a single integrated astromech though.

 

I think the T70 should have come with 2 of the things. Ive got a lot of T65's that need the fix and buying MORE x wings to fix old ones isnt on my to-do list. :(

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Title card - "Rogue Squadron"

 

You may equip 2 modifications. Negative point cost.

 

Treat X Wings the same way that the Advanced's were upgraded.

 

Orrr....

 

"Rogue Leader" T65 only (PS7 or higher)

 

All T65's may use the leaders ability - A bit like IG88

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