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Dual Cards and the X-Wing Fix

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The general agreement I seem to see around the forum is that Integrated Astromech isn't the last help the T-65 will ever see. Whether or not the ship is overpriced it seems to need a bit more to it mechanically to make its place in the current game, and it's likely to receive a title card at some point.

 

The new Dual Cards are upgrades with two sides that a ship chooses from when it sets up. What if the X-wing's title card used that mechanic? Rather than a flat fix, the X-wing has two that it chooses from upon seeing the enemy squadron, highlighting its versatility.

 

If you were to design a dual card T-65 X-wing title for the game's eponymous ship, as a fix or simply as an option, what would you put on it?

Edited by Blue Five

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I can't figure out the wording, but it would be something like this:

 

First side: free ATC-style add hit result on attack, can't modify defense dice. The wording problem is making it better for low-PS pilots somehow. Would have late Action on the card(so that the +hit/-mod effect isn't part of the action), just a simple flip.

 

Other side would give a free boost, but have a 'cancel best' effect on attacks (so you cancel 1 crit if you get it, 1 hit if no crits, 1 focus if no hits/crits), on the FIRST attack each turn, with an autoflip after the attack.

 

idk I spent 3 minutes thinking about this it's probably bad

Edited by AugustineS

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Why do I feel that unless FFG releases a card that's actually titled "T-65 X-Wing Fix" that no one will ever believe that anything they do is an actual "fix" for it?

Because the TIE Advanced got a -4 point systems slot? Or because TIE Defenders are getting a title that, for free, lets them perform a cannon attack and then a primary weapon attack? Or how about when TIE Interceptors get two mod slots? Those are fixes. The job of a fix is to take a ship that performs poorly for the points or is underused and give players a reason to use it. Imperial ships that are overcosted/underused and get fixes get it right first try. 

 

The best fix Rebels have gotten is A-Wing test pilot. Guess what? A-Wings still suck. Rebel Transport was supposed to fix the X-Wing, and it didnt. Rebel Aces was supposed to "fix" the B-Wing, and it didn't. HWKs have never gotten fixed. E-Wings have never gotten fixed. 

 

The real best "Fix" Rebels have received is TLT, and that was never MEANT to be a fix. 

 

This is why when i see people say that "Rebels have it easy" im not sure whether i'm angry or disappointed in them. TIE Swarm has existed since Wave 1, and people still bring it to tournaments and do very well with it. 3 Interceptors is still stupid good. Palp on a thing plus 2 things consistently wins tournaments. 4 TIE Advanceds are straight up broken. Coming soon is 3 Defenders with tractors and ions which will invalidate most rebel squads that havent already been forced out by the current Imperial meta. Face it; The only thing Rebels can do now that Imperials can't do is regen, and who gives a crap when 2 attacks + palp are guaranteed to roll 3 damage every single time, or when you can make 6-7 attacks a turn, and because your ships turtle tokens, have stupid agility, arc dodge like mad, and can stop my ships from straight up just modifying my dice, i can't dodge your hits and you always dodge mine? Like ****, one of your ships was so broken on launch that it had to be nerfed because it broke the meta. And guess what? It's still ridiculously strong. I see it at every tournament, usually in the cut.

 

Imperials are the only faction whose fixes define the meta. Imperials have their wants and desires catered to. That's why we need a good X-Wing fix.

Edited by Razgriz25thinf

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T-65 Xwing Fix

Modification (or title)

Dual Card: S-Foil Position 

1 Point

Locked:

Treat all banks as green

Action: Flip This Card Over

 

Attack Position:

Treat all range two attacks as if they were at range 1

Action: Flip this Card Over

 

This would give the X-wing insane versatility on the field as well as improve generics

if you make it so you can't take it with integrated it becomes a choice of offense over defense for the x-wing

also the reason i said all banks is because the TIE thrusters turn all banks green and what is more thematic than the x-wing chasing down a tie fighter

 

edit: this would also make BB8 wedge even better and give a push the limit X way more versatility

 

Edit 2: The problem would be most fixes for the t-65 also would help the t-70, but I think Sfoils would be more useful on the t-65 personally since autothrusters are still king

 

Edit 3 (last one i swear): or maybe locked can allow you to treat all 2 maneuvers as green, idk but i feel like it should help the dial 

Edited by Tailsgod

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T-65 Xwing Fix

Modification (or title)

Dual Card: S-Foil Position 

1 Point

Locked:

Treat all banks as green

Action: Flip This Card Over

 

Attack Position:

Treat all range two attacks as if they were at range 1

Action: Flip this Card Over

 

This would give the X-wing insane versatility on the field as well as improve generics

if you make it so you can't take it with integrated it becomes a choice of offense over defense for the x-wing

also the reason i said all banks is because the TIE thrusters turn all banks green and what is more thematic than the x-wing chasing down a tie fighter

 

edit: this would also make BB8 wedge even better and give a push the limit X way more versatility

 

Edit 2: The problem would be most fixes for the t-65 also would help the t-70, but I think Sfoils would be more useful on the t-65 personally since autothrusters are still king

 

Edit 3 (last one i swear): or maybe locked can allow you to treat all 2 maneuvers as green, idk but i feel like it should help the dial 

S-Foils closed is TIE Mk. II. Like that's the exact same ability. 

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T-65 Xwing Fix

Modification (or title)

Dual Card: S-Foil Position 

1 Point

Locked:

Treat all banks as green

Action: Flip This Card Over

 

Attack Position:

Treat all range two attacks as if they were at range 1

Action: Flip this Card Over

 

This would give the X-wing insane versatility on the field as well as improve generics

if you make it so you can't take it with integrated it becomes a choice of offense over defense for the x-wing

also the reason i said all banks is because the TIE thrusters turn all banks green and what is more thematic than the x-wing chasing down a tie fighter

 

edit: this would also make BB8 wedge even better and give a push the limit X way more versatility

 

Edit 2: The problem would be most fixes for the t-65 also would help the t-70, but I think Sfoils would be more useful on the t-65 personally since autothrusters are still king

 

Edit 3 (last one i swear): or maybe locked can allow you to treat all 2 maneuvers as green, idk but i feel like it should help the dial 

S-Foils closed is TIE Mk. II. Like that's the exact same ability. 

 

I realize, the only other idea i had for locked foils is the ability to do a free boost action before moving but I'm not sure

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Integrated astromech fixed the x-wing.

It did not need something massive.

Ok then wheres all the X-wings in tournaments then?

I haven't seen any. None have made the cut. Most tournaments don't even have X-Wings at all. 

 

Last 3 tournaments i've been to since the T-70 expac dropped hasnt had a single T-65 in them.

 

But yeah, IA fixed the T-65. Totally. The ability to discard a damage card fixed all the prime issues with the T-65, which was a mediocre dial, unjustifiable cost, lack of mobility, and poor action bar for the role of a durable space superiority fighter. 

Edited by Razgriz25thinf

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Why do I feel that unless FFG releases a card that's actually titled "T-65 X-Wing Fix" that no one will ever believe that anything they do is an actual "fix" for it?

Because the TIE Advanced got a -4 point systems slot? Or because TIE Defenders are getting a title that, for free, lets them perform a cannon attack and then a primary weapon attack? Or how about when TIE Interceptors get two mod slots? Those are fixes. The job of a fix is to take a ship that performs poorly for the points or is underused and give players a reason to use it. Imperial ships that are overcosted/underused and get fixes get it right first try. 

 

The best fix Rebels have gotten is A-Wing test pilot. Guess what? A-Wings still suck. Rebel Transport was supposed to fix the X-Wing, and it didnt. Rebel Aces was supposed to "fix" the B-Wing, and it didn't. HWKs have never gotten fixed. E-Wings have never gotten fixed. 

 

The real best "Fix" Rebels have received is TLT, and that was never MEANT to be a fix. 

 

This is why when i see people say that "Rebels have it easy" im not sure whether i'm angry or disappointed in them. TIE Swarm has existed since Wave 1, and people still bring it to tournaments and do very well with it. 3 Interceptors is still stupid good. Palp on a thing plus 2 things consistently wins tournaments. 4 TIE Advanceds are straight up broken. Coming soon is 3 Defenders with tractors and ions which will invalidate most rebel squads that havent already been forced out by the current Imperial meta. Face it; The only thing Rebels can do now that Imperials can't do is regen, and who gives a crap when 2 attacks + palp are guaranteed to roll 3 damage every single time, or when you can make 6-7 attacks a turn, and because your ships turtle tokens, have stupid agility, arc dodge like mad, and can stop my ships from straight up just modifying my dice, i can't dodge your hits and you always dodge mine? Like ****, one of your ships was so broken on launch that it had to be nerfed because it broke the meta. And guess what? It's still ridiculously strong. I see it at every tournament, usually in the cut.

 

Imperials are the only faction whose fixes define the meta. Imperials have their wants and desires catered to. That's why we need a good X-Wing fix.

 

 

Yeah, it's getting tougher and tougher to make workable Rebels squads these days. A-Wings were always my favorite but playing them is always an uphill battle against stuff like Tie Advanced, Baron fel or IG-88s. You can equal them in Arc dodginess but your shots just don't hit as much nor do they matter if they do.

HWK290s, my other favorite just die so quickly. Everything else is also slow and has only 1 evade die so they die quickly.

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I actually like it thematically because the rebels have the best pilots but the worst ships lol 
Just something thematic that I love about the game

as far as fixes go 

The T-65 was partially fixed with intergrated

It gave Wedge and Biggs life they haven't had in a while

Wedge especially did well with BB8 because it fixed the main issue the t65 has, mobility

 

and the thing is

the T-65's dial isn't even that bad

the major problem is that they need a better action bar

generics with EPTs 

or better jousting capabilities

 

that's why I agree with the OP that a dual card would be the best way because you can fix some of the major issues with the t-65 while not giving it everything. Having the ability to have a very specialized T-65 would be cool but i kinda want to see the T-65 be just a versatile ship when you need it to be

to be more maneuverable on turns it needs to get around and have firepower on turns its in combat

by giving it range 1 at range 2 you don't increase the dice number but you give them a larger danger zone that can hurt some of the ships that try to keep at range 2-3 to be safe (especially against Wedge)

maybe all the banks was too much like the TIE mk II, I know i had it in mind because that's what I wanted to see, but even just giving the t-65 all the 2 maneuvers (basically giving it a free r2 on some turns) would still keep the idea of being more maneuverable on off turns

Also by making it an action to switch it requires timing and cautious planning (you could add to the flip the card over. "Action: Flip this card over and take a boost action" give it some more thematic fun)

If you make it a title you can even keep integrated but I do think it fits best as a mod. Mainly because then you do have to choose before flying whether to go for offensive might or defensive might

Biggs would probably do better with Intergrated

But Wedge would love S-foils

Edited by Tailsgod

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Why do I feel that unless FFG releases a card that's actually titled "T-65 X-Wing Fix" that no one will ever believe that anything they do is an actual "fix" for it?

Because the TIE Advanced got a -4 point systems slot? Or because TIE Defenders are getting a title that, for free, lets them perform a cannon attack and then a primary weapon attack? Or how about when TIE Interceptors get two mod slots? Those are fixes. The job of a fix is to take a ship that performs poorly for the points or is underused and give players a reason to use it. Imperial ships that are overcosted/underused and get fixes get it right first try. 

 

The best fix Rebels have gotten is A-Wing test pilot. Guess what? A-Wings still suck. Rebel Transport was supposed to fix the X-Wing, and it didnt. Rebel Aces was supposed to "fix" the B-Wing, and it didn't. HWKs have never gotten fixed. E-Wings have never gotten fixed. 

 

The real best "Fix" Rebels have received is TLT, and that was never MEANT to be a fix. 

 

This is why when i see people say that "Rebels have it easy" im not sure whether i'm angry or disappointed in them. TIE Swarm has existed since Wave 1, and people still bring it to tournaments and do very well with it. 3 Interceptors is still stupid good. Palp on a thing plus 2 things consistently wins tournaments. 4 TIE Advanceds are straight up broken. Coming soon is 3 Defenders with tractors and ions which will invalidate most rebel squads that havent already been forced out by the current Imperial meta. Face it; The only thing Rebels can do now that Imperials can't do is regen, and who gives a crap when 2 attacks + palp are guaranteed to roll 3 damage every single time, or when you can make 6-7 attacks a turn, and because your ships turtle tokens, have stupid agility, arc dodge like mad, and can stop my ships from straight up just modifying my dice, i can't dodge your hits and you always dodge mine? Like ****, one of your ships was so broken on launch that it had to be nerfed because it broke the meta. And guess what? It's still ridiculously strong. I see it at every tournament, usually in the cut.

 

Imperials are the only faction whose fixes define the meta. Imperials have their wants and desires catered to. That's why we need a good X-Wing fix.

 

 

Yeah, it's getting tougher and tougher to make workable Rebels squads these days. A-Wings were always my favorite but playing them is always an uphill battle against stuff like Tie Advanced, Baron fel or IG-88s. You can equal them in Arc dodginess but your shots just don't hit as much nor do they matter if they do.

HWK290s, my other favorite just die so quickly. Everything else is also slow and has only 1 evade die so they die quickly.

 

Rebel ships cost more to do less. This game is won by tokens, repositioning, and skipping phases of turns. Rebels can do exactly none of those things well. Soontir Fel has all the tokens and repositioning he could want, Carnor, and Omega Leader for example skip the modify defense dice step, while Palpatine, and Wampa for example skip the modify attack dice step. Rebels don't do any of those things, at least not as well as the Empire does.

 

There are two reasons why i play Rebels at all anymore. The first is because i love the T-70. Not even necessarily in X-Wing, i just love the T-70. The second reason is because Rebels are the only faction that doesnt make me feel like a scumbag when i play them. 

Edited by Razgriz25thinf

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I hope we get a dual card for "Angle Shields"

...maybe one side gives you an extra shield when fired at by ships inside your firing arc and the other side, the same, an extra shield for attacks outside your arc.

perhaps a lower cost than Shield Upgrade?

edit: not really so much for the fix but just that ....I want it.

Edited by dewbie420

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T-65 Xwing Fix

Modification (or title)

Dual Card: S-Foil Position 

1 Point

Locked:

Treat all banks as green

Action: Flip This Card Over

 

Attack Position:

Treat all range two attacks as if they were at range 1

Action: Flip this Card Over

 

This would give the X-wing insane versatility on the field as well as improve generics

if you make it so you can't take it with integrated it becomes a choice of offense over defense for the x-wing

also the reason i said all banks is because the TIE thrusters turn all banks green and what is more thematic than the x-wing chasing down a tie fighter

 

edit: this would also make BB8 wedge even better and give a push the limit X way more versatility

 

Edit 2: The problem would be most fixes for the t-65 also would help the t-70, but I think Sfoils would be more useful on the t-65 personally since autothrusters are still king

 

Edit 3 (last one i swear): or maybe locked can allow you to treat all 2 maneuvers as green, idk but i feel like it should help the dial 

Maybe instead of "All banks are green" "Add Evade to your list of actions" or maybe "Add Boost to your list of actions"? Yes, the second one would seemingly ****** part of the T-70's glory, but it still gets +1 Shield, the Talon Rolls, and the Tech slot - for very cheap.

 

And frankly, chucklenuckle, there's a LOT absurd about this game if you think too deeply about it: Emperor Palpatine sitting in a tiny patrol craft? Biggs Darklighter protecting Poe and/or Corran Horn? TIE/FOs flying alongside TIE/LNs against Y-Wings and HWK-290s? Prince Xizor's ridiculous lack of mustache?

 

Rebel ships cost more to do less. This game is won by tokens, repositioning, and skipping phases of turns. Rebels can do exactly none of those things well. Soontir Fel has all the tokens and repositioning he could want, Carnor, and Omega Leader for example skip the modify defense dice step, while Palpatine, and Wampa for example skip the modify attack dice step. Rebels don't do any of those things, at least not as well as the Empire does.

 

There are two reasons why i play Rebels at all anymore. The first is because i love the T-70. Not even necessarily in X-Wing, i just love the T-70. The second reason is because Rebels are the only faction that doesnt make me feel like a scumbag when i play them. 

 

 

And speaking from the Imperial point of view, it's incredibly frustrating that there are two entire upgrade categories closed to us: Turrets and Astromechs. Yeah, make jokes about "Astromech being a poor man's System", but they do a lot of very different things for cheaply. Also, the sheer amount of damage modification, redirection, and regen available to the Rebellion, from Chewbacca, R2-D2, C-3P0, R5-P9, Biggs, Red Ace, Miranda Donei, and even the terrible ones like R5-D8 dwarfs the options that the Empire has: Moff Jerrjerod and Ysanne Isard.

 

Remember, too, that the Empire has the only ship to be actually NERFED in the game: the TIE Phantom. They ain't playing favorites, but trying to keep a balance between an offensive and defensive faction.

 

While I'll admit Tycho does give up a PS point, I do firmly advocate that he's as good as Fel and a lot cheaper. Rage will also give him action economy to match Fel's, without being restricted to the greens on his dial forever.

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Why do I feel that unless FFG releases a card that's actually titled "T-65 X-Wing Fix" that no one will ever believe that anything they do is an actual "fix" for it?

Because the TIE Advanced got a -4 point systems slot? Or because TIE Defenders are getting a title that, for free, lets them perform a cannon attack and then a primary weapon attack? Or how about when TIE Interceptors get two mod slots? Those are fixes. The job of a fix is to take a ship that performs poorly for the points or is underused and give players a reason to use it. Imperial ships that are overcosted/underused and get fixes get it right first try. 

 

The best fix Rebels have gotten is A-Wing test pilot. Guess what? A-Wings still suck. Rebel Transport was supposed to fix the X-Wing, and it didnt. Rebel Aces was supposed to "fix" the B-Wing, and it didn't. HWKs have never gotten fixed. E-Wings have never gotten fixed. 

 

The real best "Fix" Rebels have received is TLT, and that was never MEANT to be a fix. 

 

This is why when i see people say that "Rebels have it easy" im not sure whether i'm angry or disappointed in them. TIE Swarm has existed since Wave 1, and people still bring it to tournaments and do very well with it. 3 Interceptors is still stupid good. Palp on a thing plus 2 things consistently wins tournaments. 4 TIE Advanceds are straight up broken. Coming soon is 3 Defenders with tractors and ions which will invalidate most rebel squads that havent already been forced out by the current Imperial meta. Face it; The only thing Rebels can do now that Imperials can't do is regen, and who gives a crap when 2 attacks + palp are guaranteed to roll 3 damage every single time, or when you can make 6-7 attacks a turn, and because your ships turtle tokens, have stupid agility, arc dodge like mad, and can stop my ships from straight up just modifying my dice, i can't dodge your hits and you always dodge mine? Like ****, one of your ships was so broken on launch that it had to be nerfed because it broke the meta. And guess what? It's still ridiculously strong. I see it at every tournament, usually in the cut.

 

Imperials are the only faction whose fixes define the meta. Imperials have their wants and desires catered to. That's why we need a good X-Wing fix.

A wings don't suck and are one of the best blockers in game hence worlds list 2.

You Coviently forgot ywings which was loaded with fixes

Bwings didn't need a fix when rebel aces came out instead it just got more options and he bwing is still one of the best cost efficient ships.

Hwks ya I have nothing for you ffg admitted making it 1 atk was a mistake.

Xwing never got a fix in the rebel transport they got more pilots, the Xwing doc is clearly the zero cost Astro eject button for a free hull.

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Saw something like this on the web. Turned it into a dual card:

 

Rouge Squadron Title (SIDE A)

At the beginning of Combat Phase, If you are within range 1-2 of another ship with this title, you may receive 1 evade token.

Action: Flip This Card Over

 

Rouge Squadron Title (SIDE B)

After a green or white maneuver, if you are not within range 1-2 of another ship with this title, you may perform a free barrel roll action.

Action: Flip this card over

 

Perhaps this will give Xwings what they need - survivability and maneuverability. Fly X-wings in formation and they can all receive free evade tokens to survive. If a solo Xwing is out there, he can flip the card over with an action, to immediately perform a free barrell roll action, then continue to use br. Or, if your Xwings got separated temporarily, They can perform a free barrel roll, get back within range 1-2, action to flip the card over, then get the evade.

 

I dont really want X-wings to receive boost, because that just makes them a weak T-70, when I would rather them just be different.

Edited by wurms

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Integrated astromech fixed the x-wing.

It did not need something massive.

Ok then wheres all the X-wings in tournaments then?

I haven't seen any. None have made the cut. Most tournaments don't even have X-Wings at all. 

 

Last 3 tournaments i've been to since the T-70 expac dropped hasnt had a single T-65 in them.

 

But yeah, IA fixed the T-65. Totally. The ability to discard a damage card fixed all the prime issues with the T-65, which was a mediocre dial, unjustifiable cost, lack of mobility, and poor action bar for the role of a durable space superiority fighter. 

 

 

Yeah nobody does take them to tournaments. Which made it all the more special when my three managed to win a tournament, everyone was surprised and full of congratulations....Personally think people are scared not to have post manoeuvre options of movement and multiple actions. 

 

I have finally found my style of play thanks to TA and IA. If they try fixing it any more then they will ruin it for me!

 

I think you might be undervaluing IA, the ability to cancel direct hits and other crits often means that they can survive through a tournament match. As you mentioned the cost of x wings is quite high, surviving the match means you haven't lost those valuable costly points. You also get an extra round of shooting a lot of the time with a decent attacking ship (or 3), which for me is often a game changer.

 

That moment when your opponent thinks he has killed you, then realises you have IA is pretty demoralising too.

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considering there are several X-wing pilots without EPT and the X-wing has no generic with an EPT slot I think you will find Biggs has just been pushed further back from the table championship. 

 

A 0 point EPT now makes the EPT slot that much valuable and no ship should have an empty EPT slot. I think adaptability may have accidentally introduced some serious power creep to the Ace wing meta and pilots like Fel's Wrath, Kir Kanos, Horton Salm, and any ship without an EPT that isn't a filler like Academy pilot out of the competitive picture.

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Saw something like this on the web. Turned it into a dual card:

Rouge Squadron Title (SIDE A)

At the beginning of Combat Phase, If you are within range 1-2 of another ship with this title, you may receive 1 evade token.

Action: Flip This Card Over

Rouge Squadron Title (SIDE B)

After a green or white maneuver, if you are not within range 1-2 of another ship with this title, you may perform a free barrel roll action.

Action: Flip this card over

Perhaps this will give Xwings what they need - survivability and maneuverability. Fly X-wings in formation and they can all receive free evade tokens to survive. If a solo Xwing is out there, he can flip the card over with an action, to immediately perform a free barrell roll action, then continue to use br. Or, if your Xwings got separated temporarily, They can perform a free barrel roll, get back within range 1-2, action to flip the card over, then get the evade.

I dont really want X-wings to receive boost, because that just makes them a weak T-70, when I would rather them just be different.

I like something along these lines. Both the idea that t65s would still be different to t70s and the balance between 'Lone Wolf' tactics and formation flying. Edited by SeerOzymandius

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As someone still getting into the game, I am pleasantly surprised at how much apparent love there is for the iconic T65. Normally if a pilot, ship, upgrade is released that doesn't cut it, there is small amount of angst and then it rapidly migrates to the back of the closet and bottom of the box. Not so with the original X-wing. 3-4 years and 8 waves later we are still either trying to fix it, defend it, or simply figure out the right way to fly it.

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