Boba Fett and Extra Munitions

[StephenEsven 632]

Mist Hunter could easily have granted you a ca non slot and dictated it must be filled with a tractor beam. But they didn't, because you only need a slot when you build your squad.

I also was on the side that argued losing the droid should lose you the talent. But is it that far fetched that some pilot distinguished himself and thereby earned a named astromech?

[underling 280]

I believe we're making this a lot harder than it needs to be.

A ship with ordnance (torpedo, bomb, or missile) and the Extra Munition upgrade has an EM token that's place on the ordnance upgrade itself.

This gives the ship two shots with that ordnance.

When the first shot is taken, the EM token is discarded, leaving one shot available.

The same effect occurs if Boba comes along and forces a discard of the ordnance.

The token would be discarded instead of the ordnance itself.

With respect to ordnance, I believe the intent of Boba is to eliminate one attack.

Kevin

[Rawling 345]

The same effect occurs if Boba comes along and forces a discard of the ordnance.The token would be discarded instead of the ordnance itself.

... unless we make the distinction between BF instructing you to discard the card, and EM only triggering when they discard the card.

[underling 280]

The same effect occurs if Boba comes along and forces a discard of the ordnance.The token would be discarded instead of the ordnance itself.

... unless we make the distinction between BF instructing you to discard the card, and EM only triggering when they discard the card.

Everyone will have their own interpretation, but in this case I don't distinguish between discarding a card because of expending ordnance, or discarding a card because of Boba forcing the discard.

All of that aside, a one point Boba upgrade for one shot of a three or four point ordanance upgrade seems like a more than adequate trade.

[StephenEsven 632]

 

Everyone will have their own interpretation, but in this case I don't distinguish between discarding a card because of expending ordnance, or discarding a card because of Boba forcing the discard.

All of that aside, a one point Boba upgrade for one shot of a three or four point ordanance upgrade seems like a more than adequate trade.

 

Em is quite clear that the tokens can be discarded when you are instructed to discard an ordnance card. You refers to the ship Em is equipped on. Since Boba Fett is on another ship, you are not instructed to discard an upgrade card. The ship carrying Boba Fett is. So he picks a card, and that card is discarded. There is no way a token can be discarded in place on Extra Munitions or an ordnance secondary weapon upgrade card.

[underling 280]

Everyone will have their own interpretation, but in this case I don't distinguish between discarding a card because of expending ordnance, or discarding a card because of Boba forcing the discard.

All of that aside, a one point Boba upgrade for one shot of a three or four point ordanance upgrade seems like a more than adequate trade.

Em is quite clear that the tokens can be discarded when you are instructed to discard an ordnance card. You refers to the ship Em is equipped on. Since Boba Fett is on another ship, you are not instructed to discard an upgrade card. The ship carrying Boba Fett is. So he picks a card, and that card is discarded. There is no way a token can be discarded in place on Extra Munitions or an ordnance secondary weapon upgrade card.

I agree that it is quite clear. Out of the few people I've shown the cards to, it's quite clear to all that the EM token would be discarded in lieu of the torpedo card. When you fire a torpedo, you are instructed to discard the upgrade. When the owner of Boba Fett activates Boba, the owner of the upgrade is being instructed to discard a card. In our opinion, it doesn't matter who is doing the instructing.

Until FFG officially answers this, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[WWHSD 9,273]

 

 

Everyone will have their own interpretation, but in this case I don't distinguish between discarding a card because of expending ordnance, or discarding a card because of Boba forcing the discard.

All of that aside, a one point Boba upgrade for one shot of a three or four point ordanance upgrade seems like a more than adequate trade.

Em is quite clear that the tokens can be discarded when you are instructed to discard an ordnance card. You refers to the ship Em is equipped on. Since Boba Fett is on another ship, you are not instructed to discard an upgrade card. The ship carrying Boba Fett is. So he picks a card, and that card is discarded. There is no way a token can be discarded in place on Extra Munitions or an ordnance secondary weapon upgrade card.

I agree that it is quite clear. Out of the few people I've shown the cards to, it's quite clear to all that the EM token would be discarded in lieu of the torpedo card. When you fire a torpedo, you are instructed to discard the upgrade. When the owner of Boba Fett activates Boba, the owner of the upgrade is being instructed to discard a card. In our opinion, it doesn't matter who is doing the instructing.

Until FFG officially answers this, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

 

And the few people I've talked to that thought that did a 180 as soon as I pointed out that it is Boba Fett that discards the card and not the ship with EM.

My anecdotal evidence totally trumps your anecdotal evidence.

[StephenEsven 632]

 

 

Everyone will have their own interpretation, but in this case I don't distinguish between discarding a card because of expending ordnance, or discarding a card because of Boba forcing the discard.

All of that aside, a one point Boba upgrade for one shot of a three or four point ordanance upgrade seems like a more than adequate trade.

Em is quite clear that the tokens can be discarded when you are instructed to discard an ordnance card. You refers to the ship Em is equipped on. Since Boba Fett is on another ship, you are not instructed to discard an upgrade card. The ship carrying Boba Fett is. So he picks a card, and that card is discarded. There is no way a token can be discarded in place on Extra Munitions or an ordnance secondary weapon upgrade card.

I agree that it is quite clear. Out of the few people I've shown the cards to, it's quite clear to all that the EM token would be discarded in lieu of the torpedo card. When you fire a torpedo, you are instructed to discard the upgrade. When the owner of Boba Fett activates Boba, the owner of the upgrade is being instructed to discard a card. In our opinion, it doesn't matter who is doing the instructing.

Until FFG officially answers this, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

So you are completely disregarding the wording of the Boba Fett Upgrade Card? '... choose and discard 1 of the defender's Upgrade Cards.'

 

You choose. You discard. Not the defender. EM only allows the use of tokens when that ship is instructed to discard a card with a token. Not when some other ship is instructed to discard one of it's cards.

[Ken at Sunrise 2,065]

If I have EM do I have to discard Palp or may I discard a token?

 

Edited April 11, 2016 by Ken at Sunrise

[StevenO 2,996]

If I have EM do I have to discard Palp or may I discard a token?

 

 

If you're told to discard Palp then you drop the old man.  EM wouldn't give him any tokens to potentially save his bacon.

[underling 280]

Everyone will have their own interpretation, but in this case I don't distinguish between discarding a card because of expending ordnance, or discarding a card because of Boba forcing the discard.

All of that aside, a one point Boba upgrade for one shot of a three or four point ordanance upgrade seems like a more than adequate trade.

Em is quite clear that the tokens can be discarded when you are instructed to discard an ordnance card. You refers to the ship Em is equipped on. Since Boba Fett is on another ship, you are not instructed to discard an upgrade card. The ship carrying Boba Fett is. So he picks a card, and that card is discarded. There is no way a token can be discarded in place on Extra Munitions or an ordnance secondary weapon upgrade card.

I agree that it is quite clear. Out of the few people I've shown the cards to, it's quite clear to all that the EM token would be discarded in lieu of the torpedo card. When you fire a torpedo, you are instructed to discard the upgrade. When the owner of Boba Fett activates Boba, the owner of the upgrade is being instructed to discard a card. In our opinion, it doesn't matter who is doing the instructing.

Until FFG officially answers this, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

So you are completely disregarding the wording of the Boba Fett Upgrade Card? '... choose and discard 1 of the defender's Upgrade Cards.'

 

You choose. You discard. Not the defender. EM only allows the use of tokens when that ship is instructed to discard a card with a token. Not when some other ship is instructed to discard one of it's cards.

I wasn't disregarding the text, but interpreting the Boba text as the player with the upgrade was still the player discarding the upgrade.

If the intent of the Boba card is that the Boba player is the actually the player discarding the upgrade, then I can see where the case could be made that the EM token doesn't protect against that.

I'd still like a ruling from FFG on this, though.

[StephenEsven 632]

I just don't see why you need a ruling for something that is very clearly written.

What you are not sure of is who is doing the discarding right? Are you also unsure if the Boba Fett player hits a shuttle with Palpatine? The shuttle has no cards that has the word discard on it. The Boba Fett card says you choose and discard the defender's upgrade. You by definition in x-wing refers to the ship.

Why do you think this can be interpreted as you pick and the defender discards?

[WWHSD 9,273]

If the intent of the Boba card is that the Boba player is the actually the player discarding the upgrade, then I can see where the case could be made that the EM token doesn't protect against that.

I'd still like a ruling from FFG on this, though.

 

Unless a card is obviously broken (Lone Wolf before the errata), I assume that the intent matches what is written on the card. In the case of Boba Fett, that would have the ship with Fett discarding the defender's upgrade. 

[ParaGoomba Slayer 3,180]

If I strip a Chardaan Refit off of a 100 point list, I get 102 MoV for killing it, right?

[thespaceinvader 17,568]

If I strip a Chardaan Refit off of a 100 point list, I get 102 MoV for killing it, right?

No.

 

Look at the rules for discarded cards - they're out of play for all purposes *except* determining Squad Point value.

 

Otherwise you'd lose 8 MoV for killing Palp...

[StevenO 2,996]

If I strip a Chardaan Refit off of a 100 point list, I get 102 MoV for killing it, right?

 

If I shove an Assault Missile down your throat and later have my ship die does that mean you get 4 few points for killing it?

 

I think you know the answer.

[TwilightGarrison 16]

Lol this thread was a little longer than I expected

[StevenO 2,996]

Lol this thread was a little longer than I expected

 

That shouldn't be surprising as the exact rule interactions aren't entirely clear.

[rym 211]

As I believe was indicated above the Extra Munitions card is, itself, a Torpedo Upgrade Card and therefore must have 1 ordnance token placed on it during match set up (see card wording below). If we are to go with the premise that Boba Fett (crew) actually instructs the owner of the Upgrade Card to discard it (and therefore a munitions token protects each ordnance card) you would not be able to use Boba Fett (crew) to cause your opponent to discard the Extra Munitions card as they would just discard the token instead.

 

Extra Munitions: Limited. When you equip this card, place 1 ordnance token on each equipped {torpedo}, {missile}, and {bomb} Upgrade card. When you are instructed to discard an Upgrade card, you may discard 1 ordnance token on that card instead.

 

Edit: No one does this as, until now, there hasn't been a justification for putting an ordnance token on the EM upgrade card. But, that being said, the card does instruct you to place 1 ordnance token on each equipped {torpedo} Upgrade card and makes no effort to distinguish between secondary weapon {torpedo} Upgrade card or non-secondary weapon {torpedo} Upgrade card.

Just to throw my two cents into this discussion, I feel like ZealuxMyr has it about as right and simple as it can be. I am curious to see what FFG says, though. After all, their statement regarding ID's following the Roanoke Incident was kinda wonky, so who knows....

[Marinealver 8,073]

I will say it is upsetting that the latest FAQ didn't clarify this.

[WWHSD 9,273]

 

As I believe was indicated above the Extra Munitions card is, itself, a Torpedo Upgrade Card and therefore must have 1 ordnance token placed on it during match set up (see card wording below). If we are to go with the premise that Boba Fett (crew) actually instructs the owner of the Upgrade Card to discard it (and therefore a munitions token protects each ordnance card) you would not be able to use Boba Fett (crew) to cause your opponent to discard the Extra Munitions card as they would just discard the token instead.

 

Extra Munitions: Limited. When you equip this card, place 1 ordnance token on each equipped {torpedo}, {missile}, and {bomb} Upgrade card. When you are instructed to discard an Upgrade card, you may discard 1 ordnance token on that card instead.

 

Edit: No one does this as, until now, there hasn't been a justification for putting an ordnance token on the EM upgrade card. But, that being said, the card does instruct you to place 1 ordnance token on each equipped {torpedo} Upgrade card and makes no effort to distinguish between secondary weapon {torpedo} Upgrade card or non-secondary weapon {torpedo} Upgrade card.

Just to throw my two cents into this discussion, I feel like ZealuxMyr has it about as right and simple as it can be. I am curious to see what FFG says, though. After all, their statement regarding ID's following the Roanoke Incident was kinda wonky, so who knows....

 

 

That's operating under the premises that Boba Fett does not discard the upgrade. The wording on the Boba Fett card seems to unambiguously state that Boba Fett discards his target's upgrade card.   

 

I don't know that anyone is disputing that Extra Munitions receives an ordnance token.

Edited April 26, 2016 by WWHSD

[Amraam01 154]

Looks like the FAQ addressed this issue.  Place tokens on all ordinance INCLUDING the extra munitions card. You can instead only discard the token!  

 

"If Boba Fett is used to discard an Upgrade card that has an ordnance token on it (including the Extra Munitions Upgrade card itself), the opposing player can discard the ordnance token instead."

 

I think it is a fair choice.  Good job to ZealuxMyr for pointing out the EM card is a munition card itself.  

Edited July 2, 2016 by Amraam01

[thespaceinvader 17,568]

lol sadly they don't actually include enough munitions tokens in the Punisher to put one on the EM card as well, if you use every slot.  There are only 5 tokens to a set, but 6 slots.

[DR4CO 6,234]

Who in their right mind fully loads a Punisher?

[GrimmyV 7,421]

Who in their right mind fully loads a Punisher?

No one. Only Mad Bombers What Bomb At Midnight (BABY!) would fully load out a Punishictor.

And that's why I'm still waiting for the Kamikaze self destruct that lets you roll all the attacks from any munitions you still carry on a ship you contact. Burn baby burn!